The treatment of AP's

[Cardcounter]

In the movie "21" after survelinace had discovered that there was counting going on they backroomed Ben Cambell and beat the stuffing out of him. My question is how do the casinos have the athority to do that. Are the casinos paying of the cops and the district attorney to be not prosecuted for that. There where severeral crimes taking place there. In the book beat the players it tells how casinos mistreat and cheat AP's if you play blackjack for high stakes and you are an advantage player you should read beat the player.
It tells the ramofications that the casino can face for backrooming a card counter with lawsuits of $100,000 and up. It even tells of an elderly lady who found 5 cents in the slot machine and got backed room because if they lady ended up suing the casino and won $600,000 over her treatment over finding 5 cents.

[ihate17]

In a place like Nevada, a place where casinos pay most of the bills and are directly or indirectly responsible for most of the jobs, the casinos run the show and the gaming people and police are their partners.

The pysical stuff today happens less often but can still happen but what has been slowly happening is that the courts and the jury have become more independent and much much more honest than gaming or the police.

Casino security is not police, is not trained to be police and often is populated by the types of people who get a power rush from the uniform and do not have the makeup to be police officers. So they act like goons sometimes and will make false statements to the police or gaming officials, who they happen to work with daily. The police/gaming will tend to buy anything the casinos sell and will arrest on their say so, and false arrest has not been uncommon enough. The combination of untrained, zealous security and partnership law enforcement believing all their BS creates the situations that are written about in "Beat the Players."

ihate17

[Mr. T]

What I never understand about American casinos is why they dont get rid of these AP menace by having all CSM like in all other countries.
For high rollers OK it has always been " anything you want " attitude.

[aslan]

Originally Posted by Mr. T

What I never understand about American casinos is why they dont get rid of these AP menace by having all CSM like in all other countries.
For high rollers OK it has always been " anything you want " attitude.

I was playing double deck BJ at the Hilton in Vegas in February. When they would not let me double down after splitting I requested a chat with the pit boss since there was no sign about this rule. In the course of our discussion, he explained that the casino had completely gotten rid of double deck for a while, but because many gamblers stopped playing at the Hilton they had to bring it back, although they changed the rules a little to make it less attractive to counters. He said, the truth is, the Hilton doesn't want to offer a fair gamble, but they still have to be responsive to players to some extent. From this I gather that CSMs would be everywhere were it not for the competitiveness between casinos. If I were the Capone of the gaming industry, I think I'd call for a summit of all the gambling houses. I would then mandate the exclusive use of CSMs in all casinos at once. End of problem. Back to the good old days before anyone knew how to beat blackjack.

[shadroch]

Problem with that is that casinos are public corps. that need to make each quarters results better than the last one. Doing that would result in a huge drop in the casinos revenue and stockholders would be out for blood.The patient(the casino) might survive the operation but the doctor wouldn't.

[ihate17]

Originally Posted by Mr. T

What I never understand about American casinos is why they dont get rid of these AP menace by having all CSM like in all other countries.
For high rollers OK it has always been " anything you want " attitude.

The amount of AP's and the amount of money they might win is nothing!

The trouble with CSMs is the fact that it was proven over 10 years ago and proven over and over again, that the amount of money the casino will make will go drastically down by using only CSM's at anywhere but the lowest of low level tables. There are just not enough people who will play green chips on CSM's and if any other casino in the area has real blackjack, the CSM tables easily can starve for customers.
Casino people and especially the real advantage player (shufflemaster) have tried over and over again, but today there are fewer CSM's in places like Vegas and absolutely none in high limit rooms.

ihate17

[ChefJJ]

I've heard quite a bit of folks say that they do not trust playing at a CSM table (some don't even trust auto shufflers), and that has nothing to do with any advantage play.

[aslan]

Originally Posted by ChefJJ

I've heard quite a bit of folks say that they do not trust playing at a CSM table (some don't even trust auto shufflers), and that has nothing to do with any advantage play.

And that is not all superstition. There are shuffle machines for cheaters that have the ability to "memorize" the position of every card in the shuffled decks and then whisper each next card into the ear of the dealer. These cheating devices are used in conjunction with phony "holdout" shoes that allow dealers to deal seconds (withhold helpful cards from players and steer helpful cards to the dealer). Reputable houses, of course, don't use these devices, but such devices are advertised on the internet, and so they do have some public exposure. Also, the public watches the movies in which casinos use devices which in reality don't even exist. The public believes that anything is possible with science and technology, and they aren't that far from the truth.

[aslan]

Originally Posted by shadroch

Problem with that is that casinos are public corps. that need to make each quarters results better than the last one. Doing that would result in a huge drop in the casinos revenue and stockholders would be out for blood.The patient(the casino) might survive the operation but the doctor wouldn't.

What you say is encouraging. But would there be such a hugh drop if all the casinos moved to CSMs in unison. There would be no where else for gamblers to go. Certain gamblers might not play BJ any longer, but gamblers would continue to gamble at other games, except for the small number of BJ advantage players.

[la_dee_daa]

Originally Posted by aslan

What you say is encouraging. But would there be such a hugh drop if all the casinos moved to CSMs in unison. There would be no where else for gamblers to go. Certain gamblers might not play BJ any longer, but gamblers would continue to gamble at other games, except for the small number of BJ advantage players.

Don't give them any ideas!

as long as they remain as seperate entities this probably won't be the case. It would be very difficult to work out a agreement like this and even if they did all agree to do this one casino could just bring back shoes for the gamblers that won't play csms and just a nice spike in their profits. Seems like it this type of cartel would be hard to keep going, like most..