Which system?

[Pavel]

Alright at the casino I play at I usually sit down at the 6-deck shoes. The dealers hit soft 17's and the penetration is fair to good. I am a beginner, so which system should I start with and which should I then graduate to? There is another casino nearby that does NOT hit soft 17's, which system(s) would I employ there? And with the systems that you suggest, are there different basic strategy cards I need to memorize rather than the common ones you see everywhere? And is studying the Illustrious 18 a good decision no matter what?

Sorry about all the questions, but thanks in advance for any help.

EDIT: Oh, and systems I have looked into are K-O, then graduating to either UBZII or brhII. Are these effective in my settings? And where can I find material to supplement these systems?

[Ploppy]

It's easy to learn and you don't have to keep too much in your head at the same time. You can look for the method with the best betting correlation or playing efficiency or whatever, but for me (and I'm a rare player) ease of use is a very important consideration.

[Pavel]

Yes, true, but is it the most effective for the game I'm playing?

[Ploppy]

The QFIT website has a very nice chart, which you can drill down into, that shows the advantages and disadvantages of many counting systems including KO:

http://www.qfit.com/card-counting.htm

and

http://www.qfit.com/cardcounting/K-O/

Although HI-LO gets slightly better results, KO is easier. QFIT also publishes an even easier variant of KO called REKO, for "ridiculously easy KO" and he says that this gets close to the results of KO:

http://www.qfit.com/cardcounting/REKO/

[Pavel]

Yea, I've looked at that chart and made a list of 7 of those that seem appropriate, it's still too general though. And what indices do I study for KO and for UBZII or brhII?

[callipygian]

Originally Posted by Pavel

Yes, true, but is it the most effective for the game I'm playing?

By any measure, the difference between all the different systems is minor compared with how effectively you can execute the strategy. It's better to use a crappy counting system like Ace-Five and do it well than to use a level 3 system with side counts where you lose the count half the time.

Hi-Lo, K-O, or Red 7 is good enough for anything you want to do right now. Learn the systems well. When you've learned them well, set the bar higher and learn them better. Learn them so well that you can set your alarm for 3:30 am, wake up, and immediately count down 2 decks perfectly and make basic strategy adjustments without thinking - while your alarm is blaring.

If you're making errors in basic strategy or in counting, you will obliterate any tiny advantage you get from using a more complex counting strategy.

Originally Posted by Pavel

There is another casino nearby that does NOT hit soft 17's, which system(s) would I employ there?

Whichever one you're most comfortable with. The biggest difference is that basic strategy is different for H17 and S17 - and so are all the indices for strategy changes.

If, right now, you are scratching your head wondering what's different between H17 and S17, I can guarantee you it doesn't matter which counting strategy you use. You're asking which car has less wind resistance when you're choosing between a Dodge Caravan and a Ford Pinto. It really, really doesn't matter. Find a sports car - any sports car - with a 400 horsepower engine, learn to drive it well, and worry about wind resistance later.

[Pavel]

Ok thanks, now where can I find indices to study that will help my game besides just basic strategy cards you see everywhere?

[QFIT]

Originally Posted by Pavel

Ok thanks, now where can I find indices to study that will help my game besides just basic strategy cards you see everywhere?

The books that contain indexes for most systems are listed at http://www.qfit.com/blackjack-strategies.htm

[callipygian]

Originally Posted by Pavel

Ok thanks, now where can I find indices to study that will help my game besides just basic strategy cards you see everywhere?

The best basic strategy generator is right on this site.

http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bjbse.php

As far as strategy change indices, you should look up "the Illustrious 18". It's important to note that there's no set 18 - it changes from site to site and from person to person, depending on what bet distribution they use.

For instance, someone who leaves the table at negative counts never gains anything from switching hard 13 v. dealer 3 from stand to hit at TC -2. On the other hand, someone who's betting 20 units at TC +5 cares more about standing on hard 16 v. dealer 9 than someone who's only betting 4 units at TC +5. You will have a different Illustrious 18 if you're betting (TC +1, 1 unit; TC +2, 2 units; TC +3; 4 units; TC +4; 8 units) than if you're betting (TC +1, 1 unit; TC +2, 2 unit; TC +3; 3 units; TC +4; 8 units).

Google "Illustrious 18" for several lists. Memorize only the ones that you have a decent shot of remembering. Remember, executing a strategy flawlessly is much more important than executing a flawless strategy.

I use my own calculator to get the "Callipygian 10" which I use for my own play, so I can't help you on which list is best. Insurance has always been #1 on every list I've seen, including my own, so I'll bet that if you only can remember one rule change, insurance would be best.

[Pavel]

Alright thanks a lot. I have another question: Say I was playing 2-deck and since with KO this means the IRC is -4, how do I calculate a true count, and how will I know when that true count is "good"?

Where can I get a calculator like you have to determine which list I need for strategy change? I have the Casino Verite software, but thats so damn buggy and really a hassle to use so I have never bothered to see if it has one.