At one time, the website CardCounter.com held an active message forum with many contributors. When the previous site owner planned to shut down the site, he allowed us to archive the messages here at BlackjackInfo. They are formatted as they originally appeared, but no further comments on threads are permitted. If you want to discuss any of these topics, please do so at the BlackjackInfo Forums.
Beating Vegas reprise
Posted by The Mayor on 08-Dec-2004 11:54:10 (#11146)
In case you missed it the first time, and get the National Geographic Channel, you can see my acting debut on national TV tonight (Wednesday) at 9PM in this obvious Oscar contender.
--Mayor
my tv guide says the sphinx unmasked? *NM*
Posted by eyesfor21 on 08-Dec-2004 17:00:53 (#11148)
They rescheduled it to 2PM
Posted by The Mayor on 08-Dec-2004 18:15:00 (#11152)
2P NGC Presents I
Beating Vegas [TV-G]
Sigh... sorry for the wrong info.
Maybe it will air again some day,
--Mayor
I saw it.
Posted by Titaniumman on 08-Dec-2004 18:34:21 (#11154)
At least parts of it. I was cooking file' gumbo at the time. You can't just put that operation on hold.
It was a pretty good show.
I'm glad for the change in time because I'm a big West Wing fan, and we're still in the all new episodes of the new season. I believe Alan Alda makes his first appearance tonight.
ahem. :)
Posted by gorilla player on 08-Dec-2004 22:38:56 (#11161)
They make these wonderful devices, called VCR's, TIVO's, DVRs and so forth.
:)
You can make a program air when you want it to that way.
:) again
Oscar...
Posted by oldnewbie on 09-Dec-2004 07:07:15 (#11166)
Mr. Mayor:
Don't mean to dash your hopes, but a film cannot be considered for an Oscar if it has run on television before being shown in a movie theater. The best you can hope for is an Emmy. Sorry...
I DVR-ed it yesterday, and hope to see it tonight.
oldnewbie
Top Games--thanks!
Posted by KennilworthKid on 08-Dec-2004 19:16:32 (#11155)
Last month I played the top Vegas games as listed by the link on this web site.
Well folks, the games are there as advertized. And let my success be an inspiration to you all. (Or as my parents often told me, "if you can do good at that it must be that anyone can"...although they were not talking about blackjack when they said that to me). I won 20 units in about a total of two hours of play at the various places. (Please don't embaress me by asking the unit size).
Thanks to the hosts of this web site for the heads-up on the games
Best of luck to all.
Blackjack In Iraq
Posted by Invictus on 09-Dec-2004 02:25:37 (#11165)
Hello to all,
Been a while but still alive out here in Iraq. As recommended by Zengrifter I brought K-O Blackjack to Iraq and now have the Basic strategy, and rookie systems down pat. I am very near being flawless at the preferred system as well. Teaching many of those deployed here the basics as well and it is helping to pass the time. Looking for advice on what would be another good system or book to look at while here since I have a good number of months left. Also does anyone have opinions on the Palm Pilot software at deepnettech.com for counting good or bad? Hope all is well in the states. Thats all for now out here in Fallujah. Keeping my head down and the count positive, Invictus
Reading List
Posted by Ohio_Jones on 09-Dec-2004 13:39:00 (#11169)
Any of the books on the Mayor's reading list are top choices for reading. On an earlier post you wrote something about the 'cut card effect'. I believe there is quite a bit of information about the depth of the cut in Blackjack Attack by DS. Also I would recommend Burning the Table in Las Vegas by IA for a lot of cover play strategy while in the casinos. Counting gets you the money but cover creates longevity which keeps you playing.
* All the troops are in my prayers every day.
Do you need some playing cards?
Posted by Titaniumman on 09-Dec-2004 13:57:34 (#11170)
If you will send me an address (APO, FPO, whatever), I'll try to make arrangements to send you a case (144 decks) of casino playing cards. They won't make it there until after Christmas, but they can come in very handy for practice and discard tray estimation.
Do believe they have playing cards in Iraq
Posted by Automatic Monkey on 09-Dec-2004 20:12:45 (#11182)
... and they have those ugly terrorist faces on them. Sounds useful- some ace tracking methods require nicknames to be given the cards. They can call the cards Saddam, Ali, etc.
Those cards are for playing Baghjack. (Long)
Posted by Titaniumman on 11-Dec-2004 18:10:12 (#11245)
A member of my family is the head of the branch of the VFW that provides assistance to veterans in VA hospitals. He also frequents the casinos, but is not an advantage player. Casinos give him huge amounts of used playing cards. He sends some of them to soldiers in Bosnia, Afghanistan, and Iraq. The rest of them he sells, and uses the money for things for vets in the hospitals.
Soldiers love to receive these cases of playing cards.
Now, on to Baghjack...
When those cards were issued to help identify Hussein's group, I was the co-host of the South & West page another site. As each crony was captured or killed, I posted and played that card. I ceased the game when I severed my relationship with that site. I have taken down the baghjack game, but I will present it here for you.
Let's Play Baghjack!
4-12-03
Okay folks,
With Sodamn Insane's Science Advisor, Lt. General Amer al-Saadi taking advantage of Early Surrender, the seven of diamonds has been dealt. This gives me an idea.
Iraq is in the same latitude as the South, so let's play Baghjack.
It's a heads up game. Our spread is 1:6, and $100 is our betting unit. It is a single deck game (obviously) DAS, double on any pair, re-splits, including aces, and S17. We are going to offer early surrender in honor of Amer al-saadi.
As the cards come out, pick your counting system, and play along. There is no hole card play, so if a bunch of cards come out faster than we can play, we will play them one at a time without consideration of the other cards that are coming. If a bunch of cards come out at once, I will check MSNBC for a listing, and announce the playing order.
Whenever one of the guys represented on a card is captured, turns himself in, is killed, or determined to be dead, we will consider that card dealt.
The hole card will be dealt after you have played your strategy.
In the event that someone has to settle a dispute, I will be the pit boss. I can't believe I said that.
:-)
The game has started. You have received a seven. Next card is the dealer's up card.
Please Lord, give us good pen on this one!
4-13-03
U.S. confirmed today that Saddam's half-brother, Watban, was captured a couple of days ago. He was the five of spades, so dealer gets a five for an upcard, heh heh heh.
They also got some guy named Jaffar al-Jaffar, but he does not appear to have a card.
4-17-03
Player is standing. It's not time to raise bets yet.
They got another of S. Insane's half brothers. He was the 5 of clubs.
Name: Barzan. Wasn't he in The Godfather?
Next card is Dealer's hole.
4-19-03
U.S. Military and Iraqui civilian police caught Hikmat Mizban Ibrahim Al-Azzawi on Friday.
Old Hikmat was the Deputy Prime Minister of Economics & Finance Minister. He was a good catch for us, but unfortunately, he was also the eight of diamonds.
Recap:
Amir Hamudi Hasan al-Sadi (Chemical Ali)
Player: 7 of diamonds
Watban Ibrahim Hasan al Tikriti
Dealer: Up card 5 of spades
Barzan Ibrahim Hasan al Tikriti
Player: 5 of clubs for total of 12, stands against dealer's 5.
Samir abd al Aziz al Najm
Dealer: Hole card 4 of clubs for a total of 9.
Hikmat al Azzawi
Dealer draws the 8 of diamonds to get a hard 17 and win the hand.
Player has lost one betting unit, and is betting two units on the next hand.
4-20-03
Count is going up, player has accordingly 2 units out on the table.
Jamal Mustafa Abdallah Sultan al-Tikriti, Sodamn Insane's son-in-law, the nine of clubs, surrenders, giving our hero a nine.
Humam Abd al-Khaliq Abd al-Ghafur, another science minister, the four of hearts, has also surrendered. This gives the dealer an upcard of 4.
Stay tuned...
4-21-03
They got Muhammad Hazmaq al Zubaydi, the Central Euphrates Regional Commander who was the Queen of Spades.
You think the ones that are queens get teased by the other guys?
4-23-03
Well, they just got Zuhayr Talib Abd al Sattar al Naqib, who was the Director of Military Intelligence - a very important catch.
Unfortunately for our player, he was also the seven of hearts, and our dealer's hole card.
Player is standing on 19 with two units out, and the dealer has 11.
4-23-03
Muzahim Sa'b Hassan al Tikriti, the Air Defense Force Commander, and also being the Queen of Diamonds, upon hearing my quip about which ones get tagged "queen" timed his capture to top off that dealer's eleven.
Our hero has lost three units in two hands since the shuffle.
Word has it, the bad guys have heard about my Baghjack game, and the most-wanted are allowing themselves to be captured, or are turning themselves in, timed to allow our hero player, Yankee-Doodle-Counter to lose at Baghjack.
I'm waiting for another card to confirm this, but if that's the case... ...I think I can live with it.
Count has dropped, but there's still enough card ratio to support 2 units...
...next hand.
4-24-03
Looks like the Iraqis have WSD (weapons of standard deviation).
Muhammad Mahdi al-Salih, is in custody. He was the Minister of Trade and the 6 of hearts.
Player has lost 3 units, has 2 units in the betting box, and has received a 6 for his first card in the third hand.
4-28-03
Dang, I'm gone for a few days, and nobody has updated.
Tariq Aziz was a major catch, but he was only 43rd on the list of 55. He was also only the 8 of spades.
5-2-03
Mizban Khadr Hadi, 9 of hearts, was brought down Thursday, giving the player 15 against the dealer's 8.
Player hits with Huweish, the ten of Hearts, who was caught today, and busts.
Down 5 units, and on to the fourth hand with one unit out on the table.
5-2-03
Marouf, the 9 of diamonds is captured. Player starts with a 9 with one unit bet.
5-5-03
Huda Salih Mahdi Ammash, otherwise known as Mrs. Anthrax surrendered. She got her degree at the University of Texas, and was the 5 of hearts.
5-7-03
Ghazi Hammud, the Baath Party Regional Chairman for the Kut District is in custody.
The Ghaz-man was the two of hearts, which combined with that niner, gives our player an eleven against the dealer's five. Yeah-buddy!
LOL! *NM*
Posted by zengrifter on 15-Dec-2004 02:39:58 (#11305)
Grift KO 1-2D *link here*
Posted by zengrifter on 09-Dec-2004 14:23:42 (#11171)
Hello! Glad to see that you are keeping your chin up and your head down!
About the time that we met I came up with 'Grift-KO' which is a single composite set of indices for 1&2Ds.
--> This is the set that you should learn for your return.* zg
http://www.cardcounter.com/main.pl?read=8038
-------------
*12/2 = 12 vs 2, etc.
*Surrender#s not important to start
-------------
"You've Got Heat" by Barfarkel -- autographed
Posted by The Mayor on 09-Dec-2004 11:32:33 (#11168)
Barfarkel wrote to me personally and said he will be delivering autographed copies of his book to our supplier in about a week. If you want an autographed copy, order soon (before they run out)!
This time we mean it!
Stanford Wong's comments on "You've Got Heat":
When historians in the distant future want to know what advantage play was like circa 2000, they will start with a carful study of Barfarkel's's You've Got Heat - the Las Vegas Card Counting Adventures of LV Pro. This book is nonfiction; Barfarkel describes real people, real places, and real incidents with amazing attention to detail. There is more to being a card counter than just winning money from casinos; Barfarkel shows that card counters have fu too. Before you take on the casinos with your own money, read this book to get an appreciation for the ups and downs your bankroll will experience."
The book is for sale through our online store.
--Mayor
On the Subject of Books......
Posted by phantom007 on 09-Dec-2004 23:00:54 (#11187)
Just ordered 2 copies of BJZ by some guy named Jacobson. Figured I would treat it like I do my 2 copies of BJA-Hardbound and autographed....use/study one, and put the other in the Safe-Deposit Box, along with my 20lb. box of 1968-72 Baseball cards....Someday they will be valuable.
Curious about ordering BJZ???
1. Publisher does not take Discover (my personal card), therefore had to use a Business CC (CC=Credit Card in this case). Since my job involves some psychology, hopefully there will be enough "Head-Stuff" in BJZ to deduct same. Otherwise, will have to claim my BJ winnings, then write-off expenses like BJZ. Not a good choice....I am having a +++EV year....should be a +++++EV year, but I am now on my "Learning Curve" for on-line poker.
2. Order form:
(A) Showed my total for 2 books, but did NOT show S/H charges...these were blank.
(B) No e-mail confirmation of my order was indicated.
3. Why is BJZ not offered for sale on THIS site?
Anyhow, will post above, then try to order a copy (or 2) of "Barfy's" book....then off to play poker.
GRIN!
phantom007.
I got a major clue about real BJ
Posted by Gorgon on 10-Dec-2004 13:07:29 (#11212)
when I picked up "Burning the Tables in Las Vegas" by Ian Andersen.
Las Vegas Tribune - for publication 12/15/04
Posted by zengrifter on 11-Dec-2004 00:53:40 (#11231)
Las Vegas Tribune - for publication 12/15/04
D R A F T
BOOK REVIEW: YOU"VE GOT HEAT
A NEW BOOK, YOU"VE GOT HEAT, IS A FIRST PERSON NARRATIVE DETAILING THE ADVENTURES OF A LOW STAKES CARD COUNTER IN MODERN DAY LAS VEGAS.
By Nicholas 'Little Nicky' Bernstein
Tribune Special Gaming Correspondent
I was up burning the midnight oil recently, reading a thoroughly fascinating book about a former chump gambler who turned himself into a skilled 'advantage' player.
What's it like to play with a real edge over the casinos? What's it like to be a David to the casinos' Goliath? Want to know what it feels like to kill the big, bad casino monster?
Then meet "Barfarkel," the nom de plume of an advantage blackjack player. Barfarkel, or "Barfy" to his blackjack buddies, began his playing career as a low stakes card counter with a mere $2,000 bankroll. His goal was to win enough money at blackjack to increase his bankroll five times, while simultaneously taking advantage of all the freebies that Vegas offers its valued players.
In the mid to late '90s Barfarkel was your average clueless gambler. He often drove from his home in Los Angeles to Las Vegas to play craps, because it was the most exciting casino game. However, he found he was steadily losing money playing craps and, since he hated to lose, he decided to learn how to play blackjack skillfully.
He first mastered the basic playing strategy. This was a good first step but even playing a strong basic strategy game the casino still had the advantage. In the long run he would still lose more than he won. So he decided to teach himself how to count cards in order to turn the tables on the casino and gain the long-term advantage over them.
Along the way, Barfy chronicled his story in the just-released book entitled: You've Got Heat - The Vegas Card Counting Adventures of LV Pro. What started out as this first-time author's desire to get free Las Vegas vacations and make money gambling at the same time, has manifested itself into a personal narrative spanning the last four years during which he has evolved from the typically clueless casino punter into a feared advantage player in this entertaining collection of trip reports. Originally posted online on Henry Tamburin's Blackjack Insider Newsletter, these twenty-six articles have been compiled in chronological order so as to follow the author's early efforts as part of several blackjack teams, and his later solo efforts in building his bankroll steadily over time using tried and true card counting advantage techniques.
Along his journey from chump to sharpie, Barfarkel discovers an entire underground advantage player community online, as he makes new friends with the "smart money" professional gamblers while earning a steady income gambling and gaining free vacations - in short, living out the American Dream.
According to Eliot Jacobson, a college computer science and math professor and part time card counter who runs a Web-community for counters at www.CardCounter.com: "If you have ever wondered what card counting is really like, You've Got Heat is the best book yet on the curious, frustrating, exhilarating and misanthropic world of the blackjack card counter."
Other experts have weighed in on the book too: "When historians in the distant future want to know what advantage play was like circa 2000, they will start with a careful study of Barfarkel's You've Got Heat-The Vegas Card Counting Adventures of LV Pro. This book is nonfiction; Barfarkel describes real people, real places, and real incidents with amazing attention to detail," says gambling authority Stanford Wong, author of Professional Blackjack and the proprietor of www.BJ21.com, an online community of advantage players and card counters.
Even though card counting is legal and a perfectly legitimate advantage technique, the casino personnel hate card counters and constantly try to identify and stop them from playing blackjack. This cat-and-mouse game between casinos and card counters has been going on for over forty years, ever since Edward Thorpe wrote Beat the Dealer in 1962. The author uses his online handle Barfarkel, rather than his real name because he wants to be able to continue playing blackjack in Las Vegas.
Drawing upon his personal experiences, the author maps general principles for earning steady income at blackjack that anyone can follow. Card counting is a discipline, like karate, and requires hours of practice. Throughout this enlightening narrative, Barfy shows how any average guy or gal can become the odds-on favorite to win money and at the same time earn comped Vegas vacations with a modicum of math skills, perseverance and character.
In time, as his bankroll would rise and fall, and rise again, Barfarkel became a more astute advantage player, and his bankroll grew steadily. He established an overall objective to grow his relatively small $2,000 starting bankroll to $10,000, which he felt would allow him to conspicuously increase his stakes, and garner better comps and mail offers from casinos. He felt that his larger bankroll would grow exponentially from that point on.
I think what makes Barfarkel's reports so unique is his attention to detail, the accuracy of the technical information he presents about the game, the techniques he uses to gain the advantage over the house, and last, but not least, his unique writing style.
When I take a trip to Las Vegas I'm lucky if I can remember which casinos I played in. But Barfy has the uncanny ability to remember everything and put it in writing. You'll read the details of those momentous hands that suddenly and unexpectedly turn a winning session into a disastrous losing one; how he copes with the emotional roller coaster ride his bankroll often takes; how he understands risk of ruin to diligently protect his bankroll; his reliance and enjoyment in friendships he makes with other card counters; his experiences and reactions when he was 86'd from several casinos; and last, but not least, the unique lifestyle that he adopts in Las Vegas that includes taking full advantage of everything that Sin City has to offer - from comped rooms to comped meals to comped smokes to yes, even some encounters with the ladies of the evening.
--------------
I believe average blackjack players will get great inspiration from his story because it shows how it's possible for a beginning red chip player to win amounts like $8,900 in a relatively short time by diligently using the principles and techniques of card counting. Barfy started his card counting journey in the spring of 1999 with $2,000. He became determined to increase his bankroll to $10,000. Did he achieve his goal? Was it easy to do? You'll just have to pick up a copy of You've Got Heat to find out.
"You've Got Heat is a fascinating, detailed tour of Nevada casinos, their 21 tables and a talented, obsessed counter who meets characters, sharpies, wise guys, geniuses, eccentrics, and hustlers along the way. This book is a grand tour, financially and intellectually, allowing you to ride along with a most talented counter who uses camouflage and disguise techniques to quadruple his bankroll at the tables. Super insight into what playing with a team is like, plus countering what the House has to offer and what it's like to service a sometimes bumpy (four year) ride as a semi-professional player."
- Howard Schwartz , manager Gambler's Book Club
---------------
So don't be a chump. Learn to play blackjack with an edge and build a bankroll. You've Got Heat is now available online at www.CardCounter.com, www.Youvegotheat.com, www.BJInsider.com, www.BJ21.com, www.CardCounter.com, www.Smartgaming.com, and www.Advantageplayer.com, as well as the Gambler's Book Store, the Gambler's General Store and Huntington Press - all located in Las Vegas.
---------------
Nicholas 'Little Nicky' Bernstein is the new occasional Las Vegas Tribune 'Special Gaming Correspondent' and he may be reached at Nickbern@aol.com
You could also mention in the upcoming article...
Posted by Barfarkel on 12-Dec-2004 21:58:47 (#11262)
...the info about the Dec 17th book signing at the GBC at noon, and the times and websites for the two radio interviews, detailed in my post above.
Cheers,
Barfarkel
roger that! *NM*
Posted by zengrifter on 13-Dec-2004 01:22:16 (#11265)
Being misrepresented on other sites...
Posted by The Mayor on 09-Dec-2004 18:15:57 (#11174)
I often get knocked around on other web sites for calling myself a professor, but not being a professor. In particular, I used the tag-line "professor of mathematics" in the National Geographic Show "Beating Vegas." I want to set the record straight.
I was hired as an assistant professor of mathematics in 1983 at Ohio University.
I was tenured in mathematics in 1989 at Ohio University.
I was promoted to an associate professor of mathematics in 1991 at Ohio University*.
I was undergraduate chair of the department of mathematics at Ohio University from 1990 to 1994.
My resume and academic accomplishments are posted on this site and speak of a highly successful academic career.
I voluntarily left my tenured position in 1997. I was not asked to leave, and there was no other reason for me to leave, other than I was getting divorced, hated Ohio, and wanted to move to California to be closer to my aging parents.
In 1998 I started working as a lecturer at UCSB in computer science and have been a lecturer ever since. I do not want to be a professor again, and have not sought out such a position again (though I have been often approached to join the academic forces again). I simply have no interest.
It is my opinion that I am welcome to use any title I have ever earned, through my own hard work, expertise, and excellence. One of the titles I earned is "professor of mathematics." I have many others I could have used, but that seemed most appropriate for the show.
To those who take cheap shots on other web sites, I ask you what is to be gained by doing this? How do you help the community by doing these things? How does the discussion of our common interest benefit?
Our posts on Internet web sites represent who we are to the world.
--Mayor
=====================================
Just consider the source.
Posted by Titaniumman on 09-Dec-2004 18:49:03 (#11176)
The guy is always attacking somebody with lies, but if you stand up to him he starts whining like a baby.
He seems to think he can do anything he wants, but screams foul when someone does anything but lays down and takes it from him.
I think he's miserable, so don't worry about it.
what you are doing...
Posted by gorilla player on 09-Dec-2004 19:03:13 (#11177)
is considered perfectly acceptable at any academic institution I know of. Just as earning the degree Doctor of Philosophy entitles you to add the Ph.D. to the end of your name or the Dr. to the front. Once you have been in a professorial position, that title is yours as well...
I'd ignore the naysayers. BTW, exactly what degrees do they hold or what academic appointments are they in???
This tenured professor has absolutely no problem in seeing "Professor of Mathematics" on that TV blurb...
academic titles
Posted by sam on 10-Dec-2004 10:26:38 (#11204)
I didn't see the interview but here's an oldtimer's take on degrees and titles that appears to be consistent in my forty year teaching career. An MD is Doctor everywhere, but a PhD isn't usually referred to as Doctor outside the academy unless he/she is conducting academic business. The same seems true of the title Professor. Although outside the academy, Professor can be a reverential term when used to address a professor. Ministers with doctoral degrees are usually referred to as The Reverend Doctor Smith in all settings. Technically, the Mayor seems an ex-professor who chooses to be an adjunct faculty now. In either case he was and is a teacher of his speciality. Teacher as a title is not seen as impressively as Professor as a title. The Mayor can call himself whatever he chooses but if he isn't currently a professor, maybe he shouldn't bill himself as such. If he were retired from his position at Ohio U., he would refer to himself as Professor Emeritus.
Possibly...
Posted by The Mayor on 10-Dec-2004 11:12:05 (#11206)
I have been in academia for over 20 years, not the 40 you speak of, but not a little bit either. I have never heard of the rules you described for titles. Certainly a "senator" is forever a "senator" -- as is the case with almost all nationally elected positions and the governership. Once earned, forever kept.
When I was hired at UCSB, I was told that I could have whatever "title" I wanted -- they asked me to write my own titled since they didn't know what to do with me. How often does a tenured professor give up his tenure to become an adjunct lecturer? Well, I did.
UCSB decided to pay me at the "Associate Professor" scale even though I am adjunct faculty. About a year ago they offered me the equivalent of "undergraduate chair" duties here, but I declined. I am happy to just be a teacher, nothing more.
I decided on "Lecturer" because it seemed appropriate to the position, but I could also have kept "Professor" according to those who hired me.
Thanks for your input,
--Mayor
a sweet deal
Posted by sam on 10-Dec-2004 12:11:03 (#11209)
Mayor,
Being paid at the Associate level with no required (I'm assuming) committees, service, and publications sounds like a sweet deal to me. If my experience is any guide, the best teaching may be done by adjunct faculty.
I taught the last class of my career on Monday and I have some real concerns about missing the contact with students, so I think I understand the choices you've made. I'd guess that many of those choices were made because of the foolishness of an academic hierarchy more rigid the military. Anyway, I'm hoping the other enjoyments of teaching can continue beyond retirement.
Thanks for your response. I wish you well.
Sam
Yes, very sweet
Posted by The Mayor on 10-Dec-2004 12:30:32 (#11210)
>Being paid at the Associate level with no required (I'm assuming) committees, service, and publications sounds like a sweet deal to me.
It is incredibly sweet. No pressure to publish, write grants, write and grade Ph.D. exams, deal with department politics and meetings, interview candidates, listen to boring talks, etc. etc. etc. I just teach. It is the best job you could imagine, teaching great students at one of the top universities in the country, with none of the downside.
>I taught the last class of my career on Monday and I have some real concerns about missing the contact with students, so I think I understand the choices you've made.
Best of luck to you in your future and congratulations on your career! I wish you a joyous retirement, and hopefully you'll get to spend a bit more time at the tables.
--Mayor
A "professor" by any other name...
Posted by zengrifter on 09-Dec-2004 19:17:36 (#11178)
... who is the trouble-maker, btw? zg
it is the
Posted by gorilla player on 09-Dec-2004 20:31:05 (#11184)
author of a _very_ popular software series for BJ card counters...
Maybe you should use Emeritus....ha...... *NM*
Posted by Dali- lama on 10-Dec-2004 07:02:12 (#11200)
I like "Doc" *NM*
Posted by zengrifter on 10-Dec-2004 16:10:25 (#11217)
You are professor enough for me!
Posted by KennilworthKid on 09-Dec-2004 19:32:26 (#11180)
I spent more years than I care to remember at university, earning both an bachelor's and a master's degree eventually. Indeed, I had plenty more semester hours than required for either degree. While there I always addressed all of my instructors at university as "professor" out of respect and courtesy rather than because of some bureaucratic salary scale designation. I found that quite often faculty members designated part-time or instructor were often more effective instructors than those with full professor status. If I were a student of yours currently, I would address you as Professor Jacobson.
And certainly, you currently are posted in the top public system in the most populus state in the US...that ain't to shabby!
I appreciate your sharing your knowledge with us and maintaing this site.
I saw the post....
Posted by suicyco maniac on 09-Dec-2004 22:47:59 (#11186)
..and several others like it. I always wonder why some of the bright minds in the BJ comunity continue to attack each other. All I know about Eliot is he has always treated me with the utmost respect. Thanx 4 everything!! SM
Your...
Posted by dogman on 09-Dec-2004 22:18:28 (#11185)
our friend, regardless of the title.
Is Notre Dame still looking for a Coach?....
Posted by phantom007 on 09-Dec-2004 23:34:54 (#11188)
Dear Mayor:
Just joking! Though "hard math" + "psych" could be a good combination. If nothing else, you could motivate your good players, and for your BEST players, tutor them through basic math, so that they get off of ACADEMIC SUSPENSION, and back in the game! For example only:
Q: Yo' had sex with 2 white b#itches 6 weeks ago. Said b#itches lied to yo' ass...said they on the Pill, an' said they was 18. Now, sheit, it turns out that B#itch #1 was 17, numba' 2 was 15, and they ain't takin' no pills! Now, say both B#itches be a carr'n yo' kid, their Daddi's are p#ssed, and the Po-leece are a-com'n to yo' dorm.
THEREFORE, if the Police Station is 4 miles from your dormitory, and travels at an average speed of 30 m.p.h., but faces a constant headwind of 8 m.p.h., how long will it take police to get to you?
A: My ass be long-gone by then!
Mayor....it seems to me that those who are flaming you are either jealous of your accomplishments, and/or so inferior THAT THEY MUST STAND ON YOUR SHOULDERS IN ORDER TO LOOK BIG!
phantom007.
Isaac Asimov
Posted by Sohrab on 10-Dec-2004 13:01:10 (#11211)
wrote about losing job as associate professor of biochemsitry at Boston because he was writing science fiction, but he got to keep his title because he had tenure, after "struggle" he called homeric.
When you were professor with tenure you are professor now.
And by the way, the information available here free is like information available there for money. Keep up with good work.
Sidecounts for RPC
Posted by Automatic Monkey on 09-Dec-2004 20:23:29 (#11183)
Getting ready to switch to RPC from HO2+A, for the superior BC for the reasons outlined by ZG (I play almost all shoe, need BC much more than anything) and because I don't need the sidecount to play it effectively. This frees up mindspace for shuffle track data and sidecounts associated with sidebets which I am trying to incorporate.
But if I am straight counting, I still have room for a sidecount. Here are some possibilities: 1) The classic, Aces, to improve IC and PE. 2) Nines, to improve BC, and IC somewhat. 3) Nines and Eights, to improve IC, and BC somewhat. Anyone have any recommendations? Thanks.
The 7s! LINK 1 *LINK*
Posted by zengrifter on 09-Dec-2004 23:50:18 (#11189)
These links contain data on the power of the 7s
(and why I played HO2 w/As&7s from '77 thru '83). zg
MP LINK 2 *NM* *LINK*
Posted by zengrifter on 09-Dec-2004 23:52:10 (#11190)
But RPC already counts the 7's
Posted by Automatic Monkey on 10-Dec-2004 03:01:26 (#11198)
The author is using HO1 for his work and it makes a lot of sense to sidecount 7's there. If you count HO1 and sidecount aces vs. 2's and 7's, you end up with... RPC.
Actually the power of the 7s side count...
Posted by zengrifter on 10-Dec-2004 04:53:31 (#11199)
...would be diminished slightly by RPC's inclusion of same in the primary count, but still quite viable, as in the case of my 7s count with HO2.
BUT, in the final analysis, this is all theoretical claptrap - sidecounts? multiparameters? In shoe games??? FOGGETABOUTIT!
BTW, In case you are wondering, Brett Harris did extensive sims comparing RPC and ZEN and found that EVEN IN EuroNHC 8D games ZEN performed remarkably well and in most cases out-performed RPC in spite of its compromised Ace, and of course ZEN is superior in 1-2D games. zg
This post is CLASSIC!
Posted by zengrifter on 10-Dec-2004 00:36:21 (#11193)
I previously missed it because I had just checked in to Club Fed.
Kudos to the Syphmiester! zg
http://www.cardcounter.com/main.pl?noframes;read=2823
Hoooray! (6:5 blackjack) *LINK*
Posted by Sonny on 10-Dec-2004 10:45:24 (#11205)
Hopefully the site below will turn out to be something good.
-Sonny-
just a simple question
Posted by gui on 10-Dec-2004 18:59:35 (#11221)
In the e-link the Harrah's are annuncing "pays a whooping 6:5 on blackjack"
Sorry, I'm french. Is the word whopping means something like awesome?
Or are they thinking that players will think that 6:5 is "bigger" than
3:2? The shock of a different culture can be brutal! :)
Gui
Oui
Posted by Automatic Monkey on 10-Dec-2004 19:49:56 (#11222)
Yes "whopping" means very large, something like "beaucoup". I think they are looking for players that don't realize that BJ pays 3:2 on naturals. Either that, or they are setting us up for 1:1 games and using 6:5 to make it look good by comparison.
Either way, it's an unethical promotion of a game. It is a false statement to say 6:5 is "whopping". Gaming should concern itself with these matters and not the girl's titties on the Hard Rock billboard.
Great site! Thanks for pointing it out. *NM*
Posted by The Mayor on 11-Dec-2004 10:16:19 (#11240)
Whopping
Posted by Ohio_Jones on 11-Dec-2004 10:22:51 (#11241)
I wonder what a poll, on the strip/downtown, would reveal about people knowing the difference between the two. It really wouldn't surprise me if over half the people said that 6:5 > 3:2. Or I would at least bet that over half the people would give you an odd look for asking and have to think about it before answering.
a fine statement
Posted by gorilla player on 13-Dec-2004 12:20:38 (#11272)
about the state of public education. Apparently ratios are no longer adequately covered in school. And the casinos are taking advantage of it, it would seem. :)
Is this real - it almost looks fake? *NM*
Posted by Sohrab on 13-Dec-2004 12:32:09 (#11273)
Prof. Mayor, is your book being shipped yet ?
Posted by KennilworthKid on 10-Dec-2004 11:41:37 (#11207)
Would like to buy your book. Are you just taking orders right now, or has deliver begun?
Thanks.
Update
Posted by The Mayor on 10-Dec-2004 11:48:00 (#11208)
We got the blue-line proofs on Tuesday, and got the final word from the printer yesterday. Even as we type, the book is being printed. From what I understand, it will take about 7-10 days to be shipped, and should arrive between xmas and new years at the publishers. I will certainly make an announcement when we get it.
You are welcome to order a book now, several have already done so. But, it will be towards the end of the month before they are sent. Please note, we do not bill CCs until the books are shipped.
Thanks!
--Prof. Dr. Mayor, M.S., Ph.D., Vice President, lover of animals, and all around nice guy, 8-D
No meaness or disrespect intended Mayor, but what pop. is the book aiming for. 1-10, ( 1= verf beginner, 10= Pro.) thanks Mayor *NM*
Posted by redman on 10-Dec-2004 21:45:49 (#11224)
2 - 4
Posted by The Mayor on 10-Dec-2004 23:00:45 (#11229)
The book is not for the expert or advantage player, at all, in any way. It is for the average player who knows the game can be beaten, who knows the popular mythology for how the game should be played, and who wants a first book to help him get over those basic issues that are keeping him from being a winning player.
For advantage players, please, go back to the tables and play!
--Mayor
Mayor, how about "$2 off" coupons
Posted by Stealth Bomber on 11-Dec-2004 00:30:57 (#11230)
We can all get a small stack from you. Every time we go out and play, if we get into any kind of technical conversations with other players, we can just hand them a coupon for your book. It can be used to provide a direction for other players to obtain proper info by just saying; "I ordered the book and I now understand so much more about the game along with many other things it taught me. I just happend to have a coupon for it in my wallet. You can have it if you want.".
How about hand outs...
Posted by Stealth Bomber on 12-Dec-2004 00:02:25 (#11248)
that provide some basic intro about your book and what is taught.
Coming soon... *NM*
Posted by The Mayor on 23-Dec-2004 12:18:00 (#11415)
Expected win rate?
Posted by bp21 on 10-Dec-2004 13:28:14 (#11213)
Assuming 6-dk, .75 pen, s17, das, ls, spreading 15-90, 60 hands/hr, no play in neg counts -- what is my long term expected hrly win rate, keeping ruin risk 10-15%?
VERY low
Posted by Sonny on 10-Dec-2004 14:13:14 (#11216)
> Assuming 6-dk, .75 pen, s17, das, ls, spreading 15-90, 60 hands/hr, no play
> in neg counts -- what is my long term expected hrly win rate, keeping ruin
> risk 10-15%?
Here's a quick and dirty answer. It won't be completely accurate but it will give you an idea what to expect:
If you are only playing positive counts at a game where the players are playing about 60 hands per hour you can expect to play about 60*.25=15 hands. With an average bet of around $40 you can expect about $40*15=$600 worth of action every hour. Assuming a 1% win rate you can expect to win about $6 per hour.
If you can find a game where they play 100 hands per hour (or walk away from extremely negative counts to check other tables) you may be able to play about 25 hands per hour and earn $10 per hour.
I'm sure someone will give you some more accurate answers than this, but hopefully this will give you a ballpark idea.
-Sonny-
I get a similar number
Posted by Automatic Monkey on 10-Dec-2004 18:17:18 (#11220)
If you just sit at the table and never bet when the count is negative (usually a risky practice), using a top-notch strategy, you'll have a win rate of about $10 per hour. A larger spread is needed.
win rate
Posted by bp21 on 10-Dec-2004 13:52:46 (#11215)
sorry -- left out that I'm using basic hi-lo (no sides, etc), no cover, betting $90 @ +3.
When the count tanks you are best served...
Posted by zengrifter on 10-Dec-2004 17:16:58 (#11219)
... to look for another table, not wait on that one. zg
Anyone wear contact lenses?
Posted by Sonny on 10-Dec-2004 22:10:47 (#11225)
I currently wear glasses but have been thinking about switching to contact lenses, mainly for casino use. I understand that things like smoke and dust can irritate contact lenses and was wondering if anyone had any experiences (good or bad) with contacts in casinos. I'd LOVE to be able to have crystal clear peripheral vision but am worried about irritating my virgin retinas.
-Sonny-
I know counter who wear contacts...
Posted by zengrifter on 10-Dec-2004 22:18:22 (#11226)
... without problem. Notwithstanding, you should consider natural eye rejuvination as researched by Dr. Bates -
http://www.mbsevents.co.uk/therapy.asp?therapy=Bates+Method
http://www.seeing.org/intro/index.htm
contacts
Posted by suicyco maniac on 10-Dec-2004 22:20:45 (#11227)
A teammate of mine wears contacts and we have played in some of the grimiest smokiest casinos imaginable and he seems to be OK....or at least I should say I never hear him complain about it although he always has something else to complain about :-) AM
Why?
Posted by Automatic Monkey on 10-Dec-2004 22:31:19 (#11228)
Eyeglasses make it a lot harder for a cam to see your eye movements. But I guess you could switch between glasses and contacts to fake out facial recognition software.
By the way contacts go on your corneas, not your retinas.
Contact Lenses
Posted by Geoff Hall on 11-Dec-2004 06:04:58 (#11236)
I wear contact lenses and have had no problem since using the monthly disposables.
Easy to get used to as well.
glasses vs. contacts
Posted by Ohio_Jones on 11-Dec-2004 07:48:38 (#11237)
I have worn contacts and glasses and haven't had much problems with either one. The smoke, depending on the casinos ventilation and the dry air could irritate the eyes. Now instead of poking your finger in your eye to "readjust" your lense please go to the restroom and make sure to wash your hands thoroughly first. And then, in a finishing shoe length of time, you should be able to take care of all the contact problems.
one answer...
Posted by gorilla player on 11-Dec-2004 10:09:46 (#11238)
My wife wears them. Smoke bothers her eyes. I wear glasses. Smoke bothers mine too. :) She keeps some sort of "Visine for contact wearers" or something in her purse, which seems to help. When we were in Vegas in June, it was way hot and dry. A few minutes outside and my eyes were feeling very strange. Finally figured out it was just dryness and those same visine drops helped me as well. I suspect the best eyewear for a counter is glasses (I wear progressive lenses myself) that have some sort of tint or something to make watching your eyes a bit harder...
Glasses make you look smarter.
Posted by schmoe on 11-Dec-2004 18:01:35 (#11244)
If you want to look less smart in a casino, wear contacts. And they may have the added benefit of giving you a new look. This works better as cover than putting a red chip on top of your bet or something.
Easier to start Smoking.....
Posted by phantom007 on 11-Dec-2004 22:33:17 (#11247)
Once you get above 1-PPD (One Pack per Day) you will find that second hand smoke is a minimal nuisance....and sometimes welcome if you are out and the House will not comp. you any smokes.
The following is a rehash of a previous post or two, but for the sake of new readers, I have always thought it wierd that:
1. I have NEVER been declined a Buffet/Coffee Shop comp. after 1 hour of Red action. Retail value $10-20., and PC always asks, "For one or two?"...therefore, retail value $20-40. Since I almost always "play solo", I always say "for two", then order expensive stuff!
2. I have NEVER been declined a Steak House comp. after 3-4 hours of Green action. Retail value $50-100., and PC always asks, "For one or two?"...therefore retail value $100-200. Again, since I almost always "play solo", I say "for two", then order the REALLY EXPENSIVE STUFF!
3. I have NEVER been declined a Room Comp. after 3-4 hours of Green Action...in fact, have often gotten "THE TAP" from the Executive Host..."Hello Mr. Phantom....can Casino X buy you dinner, and are you staying here? We can put you up at No Charge!"
Once in a "smaller" Tunica property, where I was playing Medium Green, PC asks me about my trip....I stated something to the effect that "I am staying at Casino Y, but they will not let me check-in until 3pm. Heard you guys had a good DD game, so I came here to check it out". Next thing I know, PC had cancelled by other reservations AND put me up in HIS property!
And, he personally, brought me not one, BUT TWO packs of smokes!
4. However, USUALLY, ask for a pack of SMOKES free, and you'll get "We have to check." PC goes to the (usually) girl punching stuff into the computer in the BJ pit, she punches up stuff, PC reviews same, then makes a call "upstairs". While waiting for the return call, PC comes back over and pulls you card, i.e., the one that shows buy-in(s) at the BJ table, reviews same, and usually makes another phone call. Several more calls go back-and-forth and usually then, one gets a SMOKE COMP.
But, about 2 years ago, I was DECLINED a SMOKE COMP at LVC...after 2 hours of Green Action....PC told me I needed "4 Hours of Green Action" to get a free pack of smokes!
The VERY NEXT MORNING at LVC, different PC granted my wish after about 30 minutes of similar action!!!
So simply START SMOKING! Even if you do not, you can still get the Comps., then sell them to us Smokers! +EV!
Otherwise, if you are a candidate for Lasik (laser) vision correction, then YOU WILL STILL NEED GLASSES! Helps fool FRS (Facial Recognition Software)...just look at the Mayor's Hippee Glasses to the left upper quadrant of this screen! While I do not KNOW for sure, I doubt coloured contacts will fool FRS.
phantom007.
serious players
Posted by eyesfor21 on 12-Dec-2004 00:19:35 (#11250)
serious players do not drink
serious players do not smoke
serious players rarely use players cards
serious players pretend to do all of the above but do NOT!
serious players
Posted by schmoe on 13-Dec-2004 08:19:50 (#11269)
"serious players rarely use players cards"
See how long someone betting purple+ lasts without using a players card. It all depends on the play.
privacy invasion is not good
Posted by eyesfor21 on 13-Dec-2004 10:03:34 (#11270)
More and more people these days are tired
of their privacy being invaded with:
>banks our selling info
>high rollers know casinos get too much information from these
players cards and many are saying no!
>even supermarkets obtaining too much info with supermarket
cards.
>cell phone companies sell loads of info on U
>telemarketing calling at all hours,made many so upset the
government set up a do not call list
>mortgages on homes and investment properties being
done all the time now as stated income since consumers do not
want to disclose taxes.
etc..
do not put phone/tv/anything in your real name...and always
use a po box..unless you love this privacy invasion.
>
those concerns are minimal
Posted by schmoe on 13-Dec-2004 18:11:27 (#11276)
They only get the information you choose to give them. When you get a player's card, you can even tell the person that you moved and give a mail drop or something. Or if it is a throwaway name, you give the address of a starbucks or something.
That "I don't want spam" talk only flies for red to short black. Because the pit really doesn't care. They are just trying to do their job. Once the bigger chips start flying they start to care more. It is a VERY common practice for places to call surveillance the second a purple chip hits the felt. Once that happens, surveillance is also giving them some crap about your being anon.
Getting to play more than 10 minutes in a few stores has more weight to me than privacy concerns on information I give them.
It all depends on the play. The Grosjean/Russo model of always being anonymous is not correct for all players. But it is correct for those guys.
Concerning grocery store cards, I always trade mine with out of state friends when I am visiting and tell them to do the same in the future. Or I ask the cashier for the card she has behind the counter. Unless they actually mail me coupons or something that makes it worth my while to give up the info.
schmoe
Posted by eyesfor21 on 13-Dec-2004 20:15:20 (#11277)
when betting large 100 - 1000 per hand.
I will respond I am having a very bad day,
I will give you the card latter on Iam not in
the mood now!
so you give that excuse while blasting away for 8 hours? *NM*
Posted by schmoe on 14-Dec-2004 15:39:52 (#11289)
interesting question...
Posted by gorilla player on 13-Dec-2004 12:19:03 (#11271)
I have a couple of "counter-measures" for places that really insist on player's cards. However, I have generally had good success with this:
"I'm sorry, but I refuse to even apply for a player's card. I get too much SPAM email, I get too much SPAM US Mail. And I do not want anyone knowing when and where I choose to gamble, nor which games I play, nor how often I play them. If that violates the rules for playing here, then I'm perfectly willing to take my play elsewhere. But I'm not giving out a lot of personal information, such as my driver's license, so that it can be mis-used, or stolen, or whatever..."
I've yet to have more than a couple of pits tell me to leave. however, I don't bet purple and rarely play black. I play mainly red/green. red for 6d where a big spread is needed, green for 4d where such a wide spread isn't needed.
If the pit boss wants to make a conversation about it, I simply tell him "hey, my local grocery store wants the same information and offers me a discount on my groceries if I get one of their cards. But I refuse because I do not want them tracking my purchases, and selling my purchasing history to businesses that might want to target me for specific product promotions." What would be their logic in telling someone without a player's card to leave? For the places that are paranoid, I give 'em a card. But it won't track back to me...
Another reason
Posted by Automatic Monkey on 14-Dec-2004 16:17:01 (#11290)
When I play at the shops near home I want the card because comps are a significant portion of my EV. And I'll always get to spend them. They're exchangeable for gasoline which is as good as cash.
But if I'm playing in some Midwest venue, just passing through, the comps will probably expire before I'm ever here again so I don't want the card. Being my act is compulsive gambler/alcoholic, I drunkenly tell them that my wife (I'm single) doesn't know I'm gambling again and she'll divorce me if she finds out. Then come the sob stories, and the pit doesn't want to hear it and they leave me alone.
LVC denied me too!
Posted by Sonny on 12-Dec-2004 19:28:48 (#11260)
> But, about 2 years ago, I was DECLINED a SMOKE COMP at LVC...after 2 hours of
> Green Action....PC told me I needed "4 Hours of Green Action" to get a free
> pack of smokes!
After about 2 hours of red/light green action I asked the PB if he could get me some smokes. He said "Ask the waitress, you can buy some from her." Ever since then I just assumed that casinos didn't comp smokes anymore. I'll have to try again!
-Sonny-
Barfarkel on KCLA FM Sat. 8am (web here)
Posted by zengrifter on 11-Dec-2004 01:37:38 (#11232)
Barfarkel on KCLA FM Sat. 8am (web here) -
mms://67.120.47.18:8080
Didn't Work
Posted by Ohio_Jones on 11-Dec-2004 10:24:53 (#11242)
hey grift, the link worked earlier when i tried it but realized i was in a different time zone. 11am here would be 8am there and it didn't work. will there be a written transcript?
My mistake...
Posted by zengrifter on 11-Dec-2004 10:33:21 (#11243)
...I think it only works when you are at the main site - klasfm.com
This interview I'm told is not being archive, but there are others including Larry Grossman coming up which will be archived. zg
My link didn't work either *LINK*
Posted by Barfarkel on 12-Dec-2004 21:50:27 (#11261)
I also tested the link the night before and it worked, but when I tried to tuned in at 8:am Sat. morning, the connection could not be made.
This particular interview for the American Radio Network will not be archived. They don't do that. However, I have two more interviews coming up, both of which will be archived on www.Audiovegas.com.
The first is Sat morning Dec 18th at 9 am (PST) 10 am Mountain, 11 am Central and 12: noon Eastern with Frank Scoblete for the GoodTimes Radio Show (go to www.audiostream.com for live streaming audio if you want to listen live).
The second will be the Larry Grossman "You Can Bet on It" radio show on Tuesday Dec 21st at 2: pm. You can listen live on www.cardplayer.com.
Otherwise, both interviews will be archived, so you'll be able to go to audiovegas.com at your convenience and find "the Barfarkel interviews."
Also, I'll be doing a book signing at the Gambler's Book Store on Friday Dec 17th at noon.
Cheers,
Barfarkel
TV
Posted by oldnewbie on 11-Dec-2004 19:05:20 (#11246)
Mr. Mayor:
I just saw your TV debut this afternoon, and I enjoyed it very much. I think you have a future career in show business if you ever get tired of counting cards.
Enjoy the bright lights and fame. They don't last long.
oldnewbie
Comps received in mail
Posted by Stealth Bomber on 12-Dec-2004 00:10:39 (#11249)
Received some very nice comps from Harrah's. The cover letter says: "You're always welcome at Harrah's..."
I love it when they put stuff in writing like this. Wonder how much weight that would carry in a court of law as long as I wasn't cheating. Hmmmmm. :-)
Har- is one of the worst dog houses around ! *NM*
Posted by eyesfor21 on 12-Dec-2004 00:20:17 (#11251)
That's OK - I've been taking chunks out of 'em *NM*
Posted by Stealth Bomber on 12-Dec-2004 11:55:01 (#11255)
Maybe
Posted by Automatic Monkey on 12-Dec-2004 01:10:57 (#11252)
If you've been read the trespass act, and afterwards they send you a letter telling you you're welcome to come to the casino, you certainly can return. Just save the original at home and keep a photocopy in your pocket when you go.
In Nevada people can now identify themselves as problem gamblers and 86 themselves from the casinos. Might be a fun trick, to ask to be banned from the casinos, then when they send you their junk mail, return to the casino and feign a relapse of your "compulsive gambling" problem and sue them for any losses.
Hey there's an idea! 86 yourself from a few casinos that you don't want to play in anyway, and see if that helps you get a valuable reputation as a CG around town.
Nice to know you're using the old noggin' *NM*
Posted by ZOD on 12-Dec-2004 09:37:16 (#11254)
Adv.Gambler Ruling = Police State
Posted by zengrifter on 12-Dec-2004 22:53:20 (#11263)
New Item at CC.com -
http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2004/Dec-12-Sun-2004/opinion/25307487.html
you seem shocked?
Posted by gorilla player on 12-Dec-2004 23:47:12 (#11264)
This has been going on in many different ways. Here in Alabama, I have watched cities use eminent domain (hope I spelled that correctly) to take property/homes from private individuals and give to city/county/state government, only to have that government agency then give the property to a business, most commonly Wal-Mart or similar "big box" retailers. When asked "How does that qualify as taking land for public good, when the original law was written to allow the government to take land for highways, schools, and the like?" The answer has become "by taking the land and giving it to a large retailer, county/city taxes benefit and that is "public good".
We're getting run over daily, and it isn't a republican or democrat issue either...
it's all about greed...
Similar Ruling...
Posted by zengrifter on 15-Dec-2004 14:22:14 (#11310)
...may be found here - http://www.cardcounter.com/nonBJ.pl?noframes;read=2228
not a lawyer but.
Posted by pooker101 on 17-Dec-2004 10:51:11 (#11350)
First off im not a lawyer. But I do currently have a civil case going and have had a lot of free to study law.
The reason for sovereign Immunity is multifaceted but the easiest way to describe it is this it allows public officials like police officers, judges, D.A.'s, building inspectors, School boards etc the ability to do there job without having to fear civil legal action. What this does for the goverment is for examples. A police officer who pulls someone over because he suspects they are a drunk driver doesnt have to worry about being sued if the driver was just driving badly. A Judge who lets a person off lightly doesnt have to worry that a future victim of that crimnal will sue him because if he had given a harsher sentance the criminal would of been in jail. A building inspector doesnt have to worry that if he fails a construction project. He will have to defend a law suit where the contractor brings 30 paid expert witnesses. That say the building inspector was incorrect and then have to pay damages for downtime on the construction project because of his descision. In an nutshell it allows goverment to use discretion without having to factor in well I might be sued for this. It's easy to see what might happen if this didnt exist. Police might not pull over everyone who looked like a borderline drunk driver because they might be sued. Judges would always give a maximum sentance (might not be a bad thing) for fear of being sued. Building Inspectors might let some things slide because they could be sued by the contractor.
The Courts have almost always ruled in favor for sovereign immunity. To beat Sovereign Immunity you have to prove a severely extreme abuse of the discretionary power. An example of how hard it is to beat sovereign Immunity is the Soccer mom that was arrested in Texas a few years ago. She was driving very slowly down a road looking for a toy that had fallen out the car window her kids were not seatbelted looking out the windows she was arrested handcuffed verbally abused and booked by an overzealous officer who charged her with child endangerment. Because the childern were not seatbelted. Even though a Jury ruled in favor of the Mom in a civil case. Appeals courts and the Supreme court ruled in favor of Sovereign Immunity and overturned the jury judgement.
Personally I agree with the juries judgements of the Soccer mom case and the Suit againts the nevada gaming commision. But I do also see the need for a really strong sovereign immunity of goverment officials.
Gambling on a scam's success
Posted by zengrifter on 13-Dec-2004 03:10:45 (#11266)
Gambling on a scam's success
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4071289.stm
By Clare Babbidge
BBC News | 6 December, 2004
Laser technology apparently used by a gambling trio to pocket more than £1m at London's Ritz Casino is the latest of many examples of punters trying to turn the tables on casinos with elaborate scams.
... continued at - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4071289.stm
Several addt'l gambling news stories...
Posted by zengrifter on 13-Dec-2004 03:34:45 (#11268)
... are recently posted on the non-BJ page nextdoor. zg
http://cardcounter.com/nonBJ.pl
My disappointment with "Beating Las Vegas"...
Posted by zengrifter on 13-Dec-2004 23:24:00 (#11281)
...on the NGC wasn't with the show itself. Certainly Court TV did the MIT team better last year, as well did the History Channel earlier this year.
BUT my sole disappointment with the NGC version was that the Mayor was cast as an actor portraying the MIT 'ProfessorM' character rather than just being EJ the real-life bonafide expert, with proper credits to him and CC.com zg
So...
Posted by The Mayor on 14-Dec-2004 09:35:43 (#11284)
Having NOT seen the show, I don't know what they did, but they interviewed me for about 20 minutes after my acting thing was done. I thought that I would be a bit of talking head here and there as well as just an actor. Oh well. I asked them to plug CC.com, and they said they would put in a part "if you want to learn more, visit..." but I guess they did not. I mentioned CC.com several times in the interview part. Interviews are boring.
CBJN or TrackJack
Posted by shaggy18vw on 14-Dec-2004 22:48:16 (#11302)
I have seen what Trackjack has to offer. I found many of their reports on Vegas and Reno games inaccurate. Is CBJN any better? Is it equivalent to what Blackjack Forum was? I don't want to get into a heated discussion about all the controversy that may or may not have occured at RGE. I have read all that info and have my own opinion. I just want to know if CBJN is a waste of time. It is not a cost issue. It is the principle of the matter. I don't want to bother opening a pdf if all I read is garbage. I understand that games change on a minute to minute basis so all reports are subject to variance, but on the whole is CBJN reliable.
CBJN is the standard bearer
Posted by zengrifter on 15-Dec-2004 00:28:07 (#11303)
TJ is/was the new competitor.
Initially, or possibly to this day, much data is gleaned by TJ's editor(s) from CBJN.
Where TJ was supposed to have the edge was in two areas - 1) Its online and PDA downloadable format, and 2) Its interactivity whereby users could themselves instantly update the conditions of a game.
I haven't used TJ since the early-late betaa so I don't know if it has delivered on its promise, but I do know that CBJN delivers on its. zg
CBJN or Trackjack
Posted by BJforBooze on 16-Dec-2004 06:26:01 (#11318)
Before a trip to Las Vegas a month or 2 ago, I compared them and noted all the large differences (all in penetration) but I was probably biased in selecting games in which I was interested. I then compared the actual conditions with these. Sometimes one was better and sometimes the other. CBJN gave more favourable figures than actual for Luxor & Tropicana 6-deck and Trackjack gave less favourable figures than actual for LV Hilton 2-deck & MGM Grand 6-deck. Both gave less favourable figures than actual for Caesar's Palace 6-deck.
I did not record any comparison where there were small differences.
This comparison would certainly not be significant. There is also plenty of scope for differences between shifts etc. to be missed where penetration varies.
Trackjack has the advantages of including other countries (but with gaps) and having a searchable database.
It is probably worth having both.
That is about what I expected.
Posted by Shaggy18VW on 16-Dec-2004 14:15:40 (#11332)
The course that this thread took is about what I expected. It looks like I will get a subscription to CBJN just to try it out. I am definently not adequately pleased with the information that Trackjack provides. As many of you have pointed out, these "inaccuracies" may just be inherent in the reporting of game conditions.
Seeing eye-to-eye
Posted by The Mayor on 18-Dec-2004 12:24:55 (#11363)
Sadly, I took down the thread involving the discussion of Trackjack, RGE, and CBJN. I am very sorry that an objective discussion about the merits of these services got personal, and the thread was removed based on the request of several individuals.
The Internet is a great place to discuss ideas, organize meetings, share information, store and retrieve data, and so on.
When ideas and opinions presented on the Internet create polar positions that may lead to conflict, the Internet is not the optimal place to continue that dialogue. Communication is more than 90% non-verbal. What is meant as opinion can quickly become personal. When there are misunderstandings, we may assume there was intent or malice. We miss the nuances of facial expression, tone of voice, pauses, humor, wit, and most importantly (when possible), eye contact.
I hope that those individuals and groups who are in conflict (both in blackjack and in the world) will find more direct ways to communicate, personal ways, and ones that allow for the real possibility for resolution.
In this season we often hear the expression "Peace on Earth, good will to all." Let's try and model that in the blackjack community.
--Mayor
Well said Mayor. Kudos to you. *NM*
Posted by Ouchez on 18-Dec-2004 13:05:43 (#11364)
My first encounter
Posted by Pit Critter on 16-Dec-2004 11:58:11 (#11327)
Still a newbie to counting, only 110 hours of play and alot more hours of practice. This story is my first encounter with someone noticing my play..
I am standing behind a Bj table Back counting, the shoe starts at mid shoe then the count sky rockets. I proceed to ask the gentleman if I can join the game.(3 squares plus the one I play). Then the fun starts, as I place my bet the Pit boss says to me"What's the count at?". Stunned I respond with "Sorry I don't know the time forgot my watch". Now the Pit boss is stunned, looks at me again and asked me this "No, I said how's the count here?". My next respons was "Sorry Jeremy, I don't eat here, is that a kind of sandwich you have at the deli?". Jeremy shakes his head gives me a look of stupidity, and hat was the end of that conversation. He never hung aroung the table after that...
Just wanted to thank all you AP's for sharing the post's. Without all this info I would have cracked under his questions.
OUT
Nice Job!
Posted by SammyBoy on 16-Dec-2004 17:31:11 (#11340)
Welcome to our side of the table.
You should have said "MY SPERM COUNT"....
Posted by phantom007 on 17-Dec-2004 03:04:14 (#11342)
....is 4,000,000 per milliliter, and I am GAY!
93% chance he would have left you alone forever...of course, 7% chance he would have tried to comp. you to HIS room.
ph7.
Viral Load
Posted by Big Cowboy on 17-Dec-2004 09:30:58 (#11347)
Or you really could have cleared that table if you had said your viral load was 50,000 and your CD4 count was 88 as of yesterday. And you are gay. And then complimented the guy on his couture.
What is a "Conture"? *NM*
Posted by phantom007 on 17-Dec-2004 09:43:32 (#11348)
Phantom you need to watch 'Queer Eye' more *NM*
Posted by Garo on 18-Dec-2004 21:02:16 (#11370)
I have a Feeling...
Posted by SammyBoy on 20-Dec-2004 14:28:41 (#11385)
that Phantom has no idea what "Queer Eye" even refers to.
Finally some positive flux!
Posted by Automatic Monkey on 16-Dec-2004 18:33:00 (#11341)
Played last night, up 44 units in 5 hours table time. Had to work hard, needed to use 3 different counts on 3 different kinds of games but that's the way I like it.
Thinking about somewhere to go over the Christmas holiday to play. Wonging shoes in AC whilst shopping for pen, trackable shuffles and flashing dealers would be most convenient, but there's still time for an airplane trip too.
Christmas Vacation.....
Posted by phantom007 on 17-Dec-2004 04:38:37 (#11343)
I asked for and rec'd vacation Dec.26th-Jan. 2nd, primarily to go to LV. However, having 2nd thoughts (hate to fly, going there anyhow in Feb., etc.).
I am thinking about Tunica (4 hr. drive) and/or Biloxi/Gulfport (9-10 hr.drive). Or even better yet...BOTH!....then could check out the Vicksburg area on the way down, or back, or again, BOTH!
Any interest in a "CC.com PARTY"???
Phantom007.
"Positive Flux"??
Posted by zengrifter on 26-Dec-2004 11:42:16 (#11458)
At the spread-level that you employ, thats just EV! zg
SEE COMMENTS!......
Posted by phantom007 on 17-Dec-2004 10:46:48 (#11349)
Early this year, I was "Flat-Betted" at my favorite Tunica Store.
THE STORE where I was a "Progressive Ploppy", THE STORE where I lost and won and lost again, more $$$ than most families' earn in a year...during my BJ "Learning Curve".
And the same STORE that "asked me to stop playing", because "we want you to leave a winner (implied: "For a change")...in the process of getting VERY drunk, cranked $2k into $30+k, only to "go on a drunken tilt"....$10k PROFIT when forced to stop playing!
Anyhow, still visit said STORE almost monthly, SINCE THEY STILL SEND ME MONTHLY COUPONS FOR FREE ROOMS, CASH COUPONS, FREE MEALS, ETC.!
And, STORE, despite being "Flatted" has left my "Comp-Points" alone. Each "Comp-Point" is worth one U.S. $ towards RFBG ("G"=Gift Shop). In this STORE, if you have 1000 "Comp-Points", you can get a voucher to get free at their Gift Shop.....about 30 cases of beer, 10 bottles of Hard Booze, or about 20 of their GROSSLY OVERPRICED T-shirts.
Anyhow, during recent trip, while getting a "Steakhouse Comp." against my accumulated points, I asked the VIP Hostess what my "Balance" was?
She replied, as she viewed her computer screen: "After tonight, you will have #2,500 Points left".
I said, "That can't be right...just last month alone, I played Craps for 2 days, and lost $3k! I should have at least #3,000 Points!"......actually, played craps for about 30 minutes, won $800., and did not really care about Points!
ANYHOW, she turned HER Computer screen to face me and said, "Sorry, but that was not recorded. We only show you having #2,500 Points."
SAID Computer screen was black background, with ALL of the Usual Info. in White and Green letters...Name, Address, etc. plus:
IN FLASHING RED LETTERS;
"SEE COMMENTS"
I asked her what does "SEE COMMENTS" mean? She replied "Usually means you have a problem with the Cashier's Cage, such as bounced checks."
NOT APPLICABLE!
Therefore??????????
Next trip, plan to offer her a bribe, just to see "SEE COMMENTS"!
Yes, not wise in the Big Picture, but "I've GOT to KNOW!"
phantom007.
You need to rathole
Posted by Automatic Monkey on 17-Dec-2004 11:13:18 (#11351)
If you always want to leave the casino a loser (only in the eyes of the casino) best off ratholing. Only rathole 2X your EV, that's all it takes to look like a typical ploppy in the W/L column.
Easiest way: leave your chips in a big pile in front of you. When you get up to go to the bathroom, get a lammer, stuff all the chips in one pocket. In the bathroom, transfer the appropriate amount of chips to another pocket (or any orifice you prefer), wash your hands, and when you return to the table simply empty the original pocket onto the table. It's that easy. The only way they can track your win/loss that way is to follow and record every hand, and that will never happen.
Now what to do with the ratholes? Well I bring my SR to the casino every few months, let her carry the cheques in, she sits and plays roulette for a while and cashes out. They can't be sure where she got the cheques, maybe she was there yesterday, maybe she had a winning session that nobody recorded, but tracing them back to me is going to be low the list of likely outcomes.
Comp Prob
Posted by Ohio_Jones on 17-Dec-2004 13:22:19 (#11353)
that's great info phantom. thx. if you find out i hope you let us know unless it would jeopardize you somehow. i played less than 50 hours at one joint and have racked up about 60 dollars in comps. at a more frequented joint where i've played about 175 hours i have racked up 1.38. yes less then 2 dollars. at the first joint i am down and at the second one i am up but not that great of a difference as the comps reflect. never have used a comp for anything there and when i asked about it i was cold shouldered by the hostess saying i have people on the phone and other people standing in line, what is it exactly you want? the look i gave her should have set her on fire. i said i want my play recorded for tax purposes. she told me to take it up with the pit bosses. i asked how i was supposed to have the pit bosses tell her exactly how much i played for the last 10 months. well needless to say i won't use a card there anymore. and they are very big about asking you for your card as soon as you sit on that table. well obviously they're not writing down what they're supposed to be. i should've been checking after each session but i guess i will learn from my mistakes. again i don't believe that the comp value at that store reflects any great amount of importance so there isn't really a reason to use a card. but i feel a bit intimidated when they ask if i have a card. sometimes i say no and they ask if i want one. and sometimes i say yes but i won't be playing very long, and some other excuses.
www.gambling-law-us.com *LINK*
Posted by Sonny on 17-Dec-2004 11:29:01 (#11352)
This looks like a great site to research gambling laws in any state. It's definately worth a look.
-Sonny-
"definately"
Posted by Titaniumman on 17-Dec-2004 13:34:21 (#11354)
I have a good friend who is very intelligent and talented. She is bi-lingual, computer literate, plays six & twelve string guitar, keyboard, harp, mandolin, and several wind instruments. She's also pretty, and has the greatest singing voice you've ever heard.
We correspond by email frequently. I noticed some time back that she uses the word defin<u>a</u>tely in her emails while I spell it defin<u>i</u>tely, so I looked it up. There is no such word as definately.
I have therefore been kind of observant of this misspelling. I have noticed it appears frequently on this page. When I saw it on the above post, I decided to do a search on definately, especially since I am big on doing searches. The search showed that Sonny has made eleven posts with the word, and some seven other posters here use the word, some with as many as four posts with it.
Interestingly, nobody ever spells definate.
Now, I'm really not trying to correct anybody. I have my share of grammatical errors and misspelled words, although I try to minimize them. I may have even written definately somewhere in the past.
I just thought that since it is so recurrent, you might want to know. (It also allows me to test the water here in deciding whether to tell my friend since she's kind of sensitive.)
:-)
Grammatical pet peeves
Posted by The Mayor on 17-Dec-2004 14:07:01 (#11355)
These are the most common...
(in)finite -- not (in)finate
(in)dependent -- not (in)dependant
definitely -- not definately (see (in)finite above)
a lot -- not alot (though allot is a word)
no one -- not noone or no-one
However, netiquitte provides that we should be tolerant of grammatical errors, mispellings, and abuse of shorthand. In email from my students at UCSB, I am rather fierce about such matters (since, after all, they are college students). But online, I think we owe a huge amount of grace to the message.
--Mayor
How about privledge/privilege :))) *NM*
Posted by Automatic Monkey on 20-Dec-2004 08:41:34 (#11382)
Another common misspelling...
Posted by gorilla player on 17-Dec-2004 14:57:24 (#11356)
"Rediculous". Correct is "ridiculous" but I see the former far more than the latter, everywhere...
misspellings
Posted by oldnewbie on 17-Dec-2004 19:45:53 (#11358)
THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU.
I am so tired of obvious misspellings and typos on the web. I am delighted to see someone finally correcting someone else on their use of the language of Shakespeare and Milton. Speaking of "their", the misspelling of that one is one of my pet peeves.
Keep it up!
oldnewbie
errors
Posted by sam on 18-Dec-2004 15:30:58 (#11367)
"Someone" (Someone else) is singular so the pronoun "their" is incorrect. Someone = his/her. Our struggles with language bring us all to our knees sooner or later.
Blackjack & Black Jack :-) *NM*
Posted by Stealth Bomber on 19-Dec-2004 08:53:53 (#11372)
Another great link: www.spellcheck.net =) *NM*
Posted by Sonny on 20-Dec-2004 10:17:53 (#11383)
Barfy In The news -
Posted by zengrifter on 17-Dec-2004 20:53:16 (#11360)
Barfy In The news -
http://lasvegastribune.com/entertainment7.html
And a Plug for EJ/CC.com too!... *NM*
Posted by phantom007 on 18-Dec-2004 13:22:50 (#11365)
The link has moved *LINK*
Posted by Barfarkel on 25-Dec-2004 01:15:56 (#11436)
Here's the current link to the Las Vegas Tribune article about You've Got Heat.
Casino Moron-go
Posted by Virgin Counter on 17-Dec-2004 22:40:18 (#11362)
Any info on this IJ and their latest expansion? Is their 21 game worth a look? I am heading out that way over Christmas. Will hit AC also. THX.
I passed them by...
Posted by The Mayor on 18-Dec-2004 14:41:19 (#11366)
I have nothing to say, no information at all. For some reason I think the still have a per/hand collection to play. But that is old info, maybe someone can update.
But I did stop by the SPA casino in downtown Palm Springs. That is definitely worth another look.
--Mayor
Aqua Caliente
Posted by KennilworthKid on 18-Dec-2004 16:09:31 (#11368)
I don't know about the Morongo, but I believe they no longer take a collection fee. I do know that per CBJN, that generally the Aqua Caliente, which is just 5-10 mile south of the Morongo via the freeway, has a better game. Aqua deals a 6 deck game, S17, RSA, DAS, pen anywhere from 2 to 1 deck, ususally about 1.5, with a $5 minimum.
BJ at Morongo
Posted by Ace Hole! on 19-Dec-2004 17:36:54 (#11373)
I played there last June, no collection fee, but i am not sure now that the new casino has opned.
this is the place that uses cards instead of dice at craps
Switching From BJ to Poker...
Posted by mylittlepony on 18-Dec-2004 20:04:42 (#11369)
Not exactly a Blackjack post, but I was just wondering if any Poker pro's can give me advice on any sites or books to read to become decent at low limit Poker, and which variation of Poker gives the best odds (hold'em, omaha, etc.). I live in California and the only games available to me are Indian Casino's. The long drives are really starting to get to me, the rules aren't that decent, and the smoke is killing me! Poker cardrooms are much closer to where I live, plus they're smoke free. I understand that Poker is not nearly as profitable, but a future in this is more feasible as I'm not moving to LV anytime soon. Anyhow, any input is greatly appreciated: how much I should expect to make, how difficult it is, my edge mathimatically, if it isn't worth playing at all, etc. I understand this isn't a Poker site, but I have a huge sense of trust in the poster's and great mind's of this site. Any help is appreciated, thanks a lot!
Here's my opinion
Posted by Automatic Monkey on 19-Dec-2004 19:45:32 (#11374)
If you want to calculate your EV in a poker game, I can tell you with great certainty you can't. It's dependent on who the other players at the table are. You have no way of knowing that before you get to the casino, and if they are sufficiently good players, you'll have no way of knowing that before they empty your pocket.
In contrast, if I want to go play a BJ game someplace I know exactly what I'm going to have to do to win, and how much I can expect to win, before I stand up from this computer. So my poker playing is truly recreational gambling; with a bunch of friends playing crazy wild-card games for quarters. My favorite: wild card equals the number of players left in the game- if you start with six, 6's are wild, every time someone folds the wild card changes. It's a real game player's game! But only for quarters.
Let's put it this way: you acknowledge that there are some great minds who post here and I couldn't agree more. If you met 5 regular posters from here at the blackjack table, wouldn't that be fun? Now let's say you met them at the poker table. Still want to play?
www.twoplustwo.com *NM*
Posted by zengrifter on 19-Dec-2004 20:10:50 (#11375)
My thoughts
Posted by Stealth Bomber on 22-Dec-2004 10:09:50 (#11404)
Play whatever kind of game has the best advantage. Don't play for fun. Get serious. Also, no when to not waste time trying to play. Like now, I'm playing the game of Real Estate. For me it has the best EV for the time, effort and $ spent. When my Real Estate game flatens, I'll start spending time playing BJ again.
Know when to say when or win.
steathbomber
Posted by dbase on 08-Jan-2005 07:34:16 (#11667)
Hey StealthB.
you are correct. I'am saying 'when' to horse racing.
I ain't no Bill Benter.
regards
dbase
Barfy's November Trip - part 1
Posted by zengrifter on 20-Dec-2004 20:24:07 (#11386)
LAS VEGAS TRIP REPORT (November 2004)
By Barfarkel (aka LV Pro)
www.blackjackinsider.com
Barfarkel is a serious recreational player who started with basic strategy in 1996 and learned the Silver Fox count by the end of 1998. He has been counting since early 1999, starting with a $2K bankroll and slowly trying to build it to $10K. Barfarkel's new book, You've Got Heat, contains the details of his playing trips to Las Vegas over a 4 year period. He also wrote the article "Graduating From Red to Green" that appeared in the Winter2003/2004 edition of Blackjack Forum. For details on You've Got Heat, including ordering information go to www.youvegotheat.com.
----------------------
It was a welcome change to drive to Las Vegas in the light of daytime rather than my usual night-time departure. It gave me a chance to experiment with a slightly different route. I wanted to see if taking the 210 freeway from just east of downtown Los Angeles would get me to Interstate 15 faster than my regular eastward route on the San Bernadino (10) freeway. I'm not sure if this new northern course got me to the main highway to Vegas any quicker, but it sure was pleasant to drive on a newer, smoother, less crowded road. It was only recently that they had finally completed the connecting ramps between this new freeway and the main road to Vegas. I preferred to try out this new route in the light of day for better visibility and less chance of mistakes.
After enduring the same two construction zones that had bedeviled me for way too long now, I made it to Sin City in less than four hours and checked in to the Stardust on a "two nights for $38" room mailer. After unpacking, I played a forty-five minute session at their badly cut s17 double-decker. Despite using my two $20 matchplay coupons, I couldn't put any kind of positive run together, losing most of my double-downs for a $300 loss right off the bat. Damn. I hate starting a trip with a loss!
All right. No sense getting worked up over it. I'd guess slightly more than half my trips start out the same way and I've been vowing lately to stop stressing over session and short-term trip results. Rather I should just be trying to get in the hours and let the long-term EV take care of itself. But you know me. I absolutely love winning each individual session and love having every trip come out a winner. Although I have been trying to play and react less emotionally lately, I'm not a robot, and sometimes just can't help getting frustrated or dejected about individual session losses.
I was starting this trip with a bankroll of $11,700. For the past year-maybe the last five or six trips-I haven't been able to increase the BR significantly. A winning trip would be followed by a loss, then another loss and a small win and so on, back and forth, and I had not been able to jump my stakes up in any major way. Still, I decided to stick with the $15 unit and spread 1-10 on red tables and go 1-6 in green on $25 minimum games, using a max bet of $150 throughout.
When the narrative ended in July 2003, in the last chapter of my just-released book, You've Got Heat, I had finally achieved my original $10k goal. Since that time, the bankroll has not even gained $2k. It's been over a year now and I've only managed to net $1,700 since that last chapter concluded. That barely covers expenses. Throughout my playing career, I've been trying to build my bankroll while steadily lowering my risk-of-ruin number from over 33% to under 5%, and have successfully achieved that reduction. Now it looks as if I might have to backtrack and endure a higher risk if I want to jump start the EV by increasing the unit size and top bet. Higher risk equals higher reward. But for the moment, I decided to start this trip with the BJRM 2000 prescribed spread and see where that takes me.
Heading downtown, I settled in at a Plaza double-deck table. In the middle of this forty-five minute session, I looked up. Standing in the aisle and smiling at me was The Grifter, big as life. We hadn't arranged anything-it was a chance meeting. Of course you're more likely to run into other counters at this place than just about any other Vegas casino these days. Motioning for me to follow, we met in the bathroom, where he told me that there was now another, less crowded blackjack pit to the south. I headed over there while he went back to the main pit.
Later, we drove over to Benihana's at the Las Vegas Hilton to meet Fezzik for dinner. Fez had brought some other sports wise-guys, and so the main topic of conversation was their evaluations of what the next week's lines would be. They wrote down their predictions, which they would later use to compare to the upcoming posted lines to see if there were any discrepancies of three points or more, so they'd know if they had an edge on those bets. Fezzik also gave me some good football picks to bet this weekend, conditional upon my being able to find the right point spread number. He liked Mississippi State taking 10.5 points in college ball, and in the pros, he liked the 3.5 points (but don't settle for only three) and the Houston Texans against Green Bay on Sunday. The one game they all agree was mis-priced was the underdog Chargers plus 3.5 points vs. Kansas City. San Diego won the game outright. In the Mississippi State game, it turned out that they lost by only three points, covering the spread easily. Green Bay won by three points, so the underdog Texans did cover the spread by that crucial half-point, making Fezzik look like a genius. Next time Fez gives me some picks, I have to remember to actually place some bets on them, but regretfully, this time I didn't.
This was the first time I had dined at Benihana's, although I've always longed to. I had the steak and shrimp which, as you may know, they slice and dice and flip and fry the food in front of you on a large grill that is built in to the center of each table, with the diners seated around the perimeter in a semicircle. I guess that's so you'll see what someone else is getting, and say, "Hey, that looks good. I'll have some of that too." We all got to taste each others orders. As usual, Fezzik had fish and seafood only, with no meat. Although he's still on his strict health and diet regimen, he didn't give me "the glare" when I ordered my steak. What a relief. I guess he's mellowed a bit since the last time I dined with him. He even insisted on picking up the check and would not accept any cash from Grif or me, despite our offers to chip in. Thanks again for the tasty dinner and your fine company, Fez.
Later I joined a $25 double-deck table at the Hilton, with one other player. The Grifter back counted the game while pretending to carry on a cell phone conversation in the aisle behind me. The first time the count went south, he said to me, "Here. She insists upon talking to you right now, even though I told her you're in the middle of a game." I'd pull my bet back, stand away from the table and resume the "conversation" as Grif handed me the phone. "Yeah, yeah...we'll catch up with you in about an hour, ok? Dinner was great...oh you shoulda been there....okay... okay...it's about ten-forty-five now...yeah...okay....what? Speak louder...it's noisy in here." By this time the count had gone positive, or the shuffle was ending, so I'd hand the phone back to The Grifter, who wasn't playing, and he'd continue to "talk." Since the pen was only 55%, I played less than thirty minutes and we left. I had won all of $40 after all that duplicity. This was the first time I had seen this new exit-wonging stratagem of Grif's, which he apparently just created on the spot.
Driving back to the Plaza, I settled in at a double-deck table in the new side pit. Soon I made my first max bet of the session. I had to double-down 5, 5 vs. a nine. The dealer turned a six in the hole for fifteen, and busted with a ten. When she turned up my card, it was another ten, of course. Why does it seem you always get it when you don't need it? Too bad you're not allowed to "bank" those cards, saving them for when you really need them.
Anyway, I had won $550 to put me in the black for the first time on this trip. We split up. The Grifter stayed at the Plaza, and I walked across the street to the Las Vegas Club, where Grif's mugshot is always prominent on the pit's podium stack of "undesirable" photos. I found a seat at the $25 single-decker with a third base player who was betting odd amounts on the Royal Match. It took the dealer forever to make the correct payoffs. We must have been getting less than forty hands per hour. I was losing, so it was even more irritating. My cell phone rang, but I ignored it in a plus count. Let the voice-mail pick it up. The phone rang again. I let it ring. I looked at the door. Through the glass, I could see The Grifter waving at me to come outside. I waited for a negative count, and told the dealer that I'd be right back.
Outside we found Max Rubin, who was shepherding some Barona players on a gambling competition tour. They would go to different casinos and play with house money to see who could achieve the highest cumulative total, much like those Travel Channel shows in which four contestants start with the same amount of chips and rotate through four table games, competing to see which one can win the most money. Max recognized me right away, even though I hadn't seen him in at least two years. We had met only once at a Rat Pack dinner one night. He was sporting a beard and it looked good-a different appearance than the clean-shaven look I was used to seeing on TV. I thanked him for the good review he had recently given my new book, You've Got Heat. He replied that he had enjoyed the book thoroughly, and especially liked the honesty in the narrative that showed how grueling it can be for a low stakes card counter trying to build his bankroll these days. I asked him if the fact that I was now an author would qualify me to attend the next Blackjack Ball. Max told me that a committee of BJ Hall-of-Famers compile and decide on the guest list each year, and that he'd nominate and put in a good word for me. I'm not holding my breath over it, but it sure would be an honor to attend, so if it happens, it happens, and if it doesn't, oh well-wait until next year.
A month later I found out that the BJ Ball Committee had left me off the list in favor of four well-known tournament players who had just competed in the second annual World Series of Blackjack, held this year at the Golden Nugget. So I guess I'll have to wait and hope for next year. Now I know how fans of the Chicago Cubs feel. J
I wanted the Grifter to demonstrate his new Royal Match count, so we drove to the Western at 2 a.m. Actually it's not a formal count system per'se. Rather, he'd observe the first round or two to the two of us. If there was one suit that hadn't appeared, or conversely an excess of one particular suit, or an excess of one color versus another, he'd place bets on the Royal Match. The Western has the better 3/10 payoff schedule. Any suited match wins 3-1, and if it's the suited king and queen, it wins 10-1.
At first I tried to keep a side count of red vs. black cards, which is one of several different ways to get an edge on this side bet. I found just I couldn't sustain it and keep my regular count too. After awhile, I gave it up and hit upon a simpler strategy-I'd just make a $10 Royal Match bet whenever I saw The Grifter doing it. We didn't have good results in this short sample. I think I only got two payoffs in eight or ten attempts. Oh well. I understand the variance on this side bet is rather high, so that may account for it. We finished up around 4:30 a.m. Down only $85 for the trip so far, I called it a night.
The next morning I switched between the $10 and $25 double-deck tables at Stardust, doing better at the higher limit table in my morning session. In for $600 and losing, I managed to recoup. The key hand was a $100 bet on a plus three true count, when I doubled 8, 3 vs. a seven upcard. When the dealer busted, I was back to exactly even, and quit at the end of the hour.
Taking a mid-morning break, I parked the car and entered the Gambler's Book Shop. The clerk told me they've been getting a number of phone inquiries about when You've Got Heat will be available. My publisher, Henry Tamburin, has the book at the printers at present, but the printed book covers still have to be shipped to another facility where they'll get laminated. So there'll be another two-week wait before the book is in stock and ready to sell. I didn't tell him that we had already pulled out thirty copies with un-laminated covers and sent them to Al Rogers at Pi Yee Press, so that Stanford Wong could sell them Saturday night at the annual Vegas Green Chip party. So far, Wong is the only one who has copies to sell. My publisher had made special arrangements to get Pi Yee Press a supply of my new books in time for this event, so that I could be there to sign them.
I bought two Bob Dancer books, Sex, Lies and Video Poker and Million Dollar Video Poker, as well as a used copy of Dustin Marks Cheating at Blackjack Squared. I also picked up another copy of Munchkin's Gambling Wizards, which I had loaned to The Grifter. He had lost it in Federal Prison Camp in Miami, so in repayment he's holding for me a copy of McDowell's new Ace Prediction book, which I was about to buy but didn't, after a cell phone conversation with Grif confirmed it. While totaling up the sale, manager Howard Schwartz groused that I had written a book just so I could get a 20% author's discount every time I came in.
It was just a short hop from here to downtown. The Plaza is still dealing an excellent double-deck game. I half-expected to find a bunch of advantage players at every table, now that the Green Chip party weekend was starting. As it turned out, the only one I ran into was my old buddy Packrat. After an hours play, and a $400 win, we went in for a comped coffee shop lunch. Packrat had the Spanish omelet and I ordered a club sandwich and chocolate shake. We talked about the Lucky Ladies and Royal Match side bets. Packrat has recently changed his count system from KO to Hi-Lo, which was more appropriate for his part-time job as a spotter for some multi-black spreading teams. He's studied and simmed these side bets, and gave me the quick and dirty strategy for each. On the Royal Twenties, he advised me to make the bet at a true count of plus six. Since my Silver Fox count is so similar to Hi-Lo, we both use the same strike numbers. On the Lucky Ladies, in double-deck games, we should make the bet at a true of plus five, if no heart queens are out. If one or both queen of hearts had been played, we make the bet at plus nine. However, Packrat also told me that if you're not keeping track of how many heart queens are out, or if you're getting good pen and the count shoots up towards the end, than it's ok to use the "blended" number and make the LL bet at a true of plus seven. In six-deck shoe games, where the numbers are the same, the best strategy is just to wong in at the plus five (or blended plus seven) strike number, although those opportunities are rare, as you can imagine.
After a luxurious late afternoon nap, I returned to the Plaza. I saw The Grifter at one table and Packrat at another. I played in the south pit, which is usually less crowded than the main blackjack pit. I lost $325 and was walking to the cage, when I ran into Stanford Wong. We had a long conversation, mostly about dice control techniques and a little about my new book. Where else but in a Las Vegas casino could you casually bump into the one and only Stanford Wong?
Packrat, Grif and I had a comped late night dinner, and then they left. I decided to play one more Plaza session before turning in for the night. This time I won $200, which is also my trip total up to this point. Hey, I know it's not much, but it's better than being in the hole. At least my variance had been mild up to this point, and I had suffered no big losses.
The next morning started rather badly. An hour-long session at the Stardust's $25 double-deck table resulted in a $400 loss, to put me back in the red again. Now down $200 for the trip, I turned the car west on Flamingo, heading for the Pi Yee Press office on Nevso Street.
Yesterday, I had received a cell call from Al Rogers at Wong's office. He told me that the very first shipment of my just completed book, You've Got Heat - The Vegas Card Counting Adventures of LV Pro, had finally arrived. When I got there, Al was out to lunch so I hung out with Chris Kelly, who showed me my finished book for the very first time. Chris told me how everyone just loved the book cover, and I could see why. The colors looked sharp and alive, much more vibrant than the computer files I had seen up until now. It looked wonderful, although I might have been a bit over-excited. After all, how often do you get to see your very own just-published book for the first time?
Chris let me use one of their computers, so I checked the websites. Sure enough, Al had posted a notice on both the main BJ Green and Free pages, announcing that You've Got Heat was now in stock and available for sale on www.BJ21.com. It was featured as a new product on their order page. On the book's own website, www.Youvegotheat.com, the online ordering link had just been activated, so now there were two websites actively selling the book. Soon, the rest of the copies will be back from the lamination processors, and will be shipped out to Viktor Nacht at Advantageplayer.com, to Howard Schwartz at the Gambler's Book Shop, to Anthony Curtis at Huntington Press, to Wendy at the Gambler's General Store, to Michael Dalton at BJRnet.com, and some other outlets. A month later in December, in the weekly Green Chip chat, Stanford would tell me that my book was their biggest selling title in the last month since it came out. Yay!
Chris was also kind enough to loan me one of the thirty copies they'd received. I wanted to have one with me to show people, but the main reason was to be able to hold a copy of my first-ever book in my own hands and just carry it, hold it, look at it and dig it. I just couldn't get over it!
The reason why Pi Yee Press got their book allotment before anyone else was that we wanted to have copies of the book for sale at the main Green Chip Party tomorrow night, where I'd be present to autograph them. Since the cover lamination process takes 10-14 days, we had left these few early copies unlaminated, pulled them out and shipped them. I promised to mail back a replacement copy within the month, but later upon talking to my publisher, Henry told me to just keep that copy, and he'll adjust the Pi Yee inventory accordingly. I liked that much better. Now that I have a copy, I don't want to part with it. As you can imagine, I was totally stoked and elated to finally holding the finished book in my hot little hands.
After a comped ham'n'eggs breakfast at the Stardust coffee shop, I checked out and moved my gear over to Casino Royale, where I had a mail offer for three free nights. CR has removed its one playable blackjack game. The $10 double-deck table has now been converted to a Blackjack Switch game. I had prepared for this, and printed out the basic strategy and a switch chart from the Wizard of Odds website. Although I hadn't yet memorized the basic strategy, I planned to give this new game some action. I also planned to play some coupon-hustling video poker there, in order to keep my name active for those valuable free room mailings that I received each month.
Later I drove downtown to the Plaza again. Each of the three tables I played at in this three-hour session could qualify for the "coldest table" designation in the encyclopedia. I lost almost all of my big bets and my double-down results were laughable, especially if you're sadistic and like to grin as you watch the chip stacks of otherwise normal advantage players get flushed down the toilet. I was actually lucky to lose only $400 here to put me at minus $600 for the trip, with two days left to go.
Note: The conclusion of Barfarkel's trip report will appear in the January issue of BJI.
another highlight
Posted by gorilla player on 20-Dec-2004 23:20:53 (#11390)
These are the best of the best trip reports. Can't wait to get his book.
One quick question. In this report, he mentioned something about (I think I am getting this right) grifter losing one of his books in a "prison camp". Any idea what that is all about? I might have read an explanation a long while back, but I certainly don't recall any details, if any are public that is...
Read the ...
Posted by zengrifter on 21-Dec-2004 05:12:45 (#11392)
...Zengrifter Interview on the homepage of CC.com zg
thanks...
Posted by gorilla player on 21-Dec-2004 08:55:54 (#11394)
I had read it when I first found this site. As soon as I looked at if after your prod above, I remembered that was where I had seen the original reference.
Again, thanks...
BTW
Posted by gorilla player on 21-Dec-2004 12:51:09 (#11395)
I notice you post in many places, and your posts are always interesting and contain useful information (OK, maybe on the non-BJ message board we might not agree, but that's another subject. :) ) Do you always use your same handle on other message boards? IE on hitorstand, there is a "grifter" that sounds like you but I was not sure. If you don't want to answer, I'll certainly understand, I just do my best to know who I am talking to when I can.
Thanks again...
BTW I certainly envy anyone that got to play in the "good old days" before all the shoe games with 66% penetration, bad rules, and so forth... I'd bet you have at least one good book in you. hint.. hint.. :) Those are the fun kinds of things to read (IE "you've got heat" or "The Big Player" or other "tales from the
battleground".)
Of course, feel free to post "recollections" here all you want as well, I for one will certainly read 'em. :) Now if old Doc Brown will get that De Lorean fixed up, I'd like to dial back to Vegas, 1955, and have at it. :)
GP
I only post as Zengrifter, "Grifter" at the other...
Posted by zengrifter on 21-Dec-2004 15:49:30 (#11398)
...place(s) is NOT me. zg
INTERVIEW WITH TOMMY HYLAND
Posted by zengrifter on 20-Dec-2004 20:27:01 (#11387)
INTERVIEW WITH TOMMY HYLAND
By Steve Bourie
www.blackjackinsider.com
Steve Bourie is the author of the 2005 American Casino Guide. We have been touting the 2005 ACG because it as an excellent book plus it contains tear out casino coupons worth over a thousand dollars. You can purchase a copy of the 2005ACG at a 10% discount at our online store.
Blackjack is the most popular table game in any U.S. casino and one of the reasons for its enduring popularity is the fact that the game has a reputation of being "beatable." Naturally, the thought of being able to beat casinos at their own game has driven many players to spend countless hours studying basic strategy charts in the hope that they'll learn how to play their hands properly and be able to win consistently.
Unfortunately, even when playing perfect basic strategy, the average player will still be playing at a disadvantage. Yes, those players will have some sessions where they get lucky and win, but in the long run the odds will catch up with them and they will lose money.
The reality of the situation is that only an experienced card counter can be a long-term winner and, even though the counter should eventually come out with a profit, there are likely to be many losing sessions along the way.
To help lessen the inherent risks in the game, many card counters have found it advantageous to play on teams. By pooling their money they have a bigger bankroll to work with and they can also reduce the volatility of the game by playing at more than one table at a time. Additionally, by having a team they can get in many more hours of play than they would be able to do if they were playing alone.
One of the most successful card counting teams in the world is run by Tommy Hyland. I first saw Hyland about four years ago on the CBS TV show "48 Hours." They did a segment on card counters and, through the use of a hidden camera, Hyland was shown being ejected from a major Las Vegas Strip casino by a pit boss that recognized him as a counter.
I must admit that I was intrigued by the video footage and through the years I continued to hear from various sources about Hyland's success with his card counting teams. I thought an interview with Hyland would be interesting and, through some mutual friends, I eventually got to meet him. He agreed to the interview and the following conversation took place in Las Vegas in early 2003.
When did you first get involved in blackjack?
It was 1979. I was going to school in Ohio and my roommate and I were both interested in gambling. We happened to be in a mall one day and we saw Revere's book "Playing Blackjack as a Business." We got it and read it and then we started practicing. We started going to Atlantic City once in a while and it kind of went from there. I basically started playing full-time in April 1979.
Did you make money right away when you first started?
Pretty much. I didn't have very much money to start with. I think I had $1,000 or $2,000 but the casinos were offering early surrender, which was a rule that gave you an advantage off the top. After about four or five months I built up my bankroll to $4,000. What really got me going though was after I taught a friend of mine to play also.
He had a few thousand dollars and we were playing separately, but then we met these other two card counters who were playing small stakes also in Atlantic City and that's how we really got rolling. We each put up $4,000, so now we were playing off of a $16,000 bankroll and we started winning immediately. Way better than we should have and I guess after about a month or so of play, we built the $16,000 up to $60,000. We got really lucky. Then in December 1979 we won a fair amount of money during the famous card counting experiment where the casinos let known card counters play for about two weeks. We won quite a lot during that period.
Was Ken Uston playing at that time?
Yes. At that time there were two casinos open - Resorts and Caesars. We decided to play at Resorts and his group was playing at Caesars so we didn't see that much of him but we would see him occasionally.
Was he a well known card counter at the time?
Yes. When I saw him playing by then, he was in the newspapers, on TV, and the radio all the time. He was the most famous card counter.
Did he know you guys?
Not really, we were playing real small compared to how he was playing, but eventually I got to know him. I probably had lunch or dinner with him five times and talked with him on the phone a few times, stuff like that.
There are some stories about Uston saying that he really wasn't as successful as he professed to be. Do you have any comment on that?
I don't have any firsthand knowledge whether he was a good player. I do know he was a heavy drinker and had some drug problems also.
He died of a drug overdose?
Supposedly. He died in France, you know possible complications from drugs, but I also heard it was a heart attack.
He was certainly a likeable guy, very charismatic. You know a lot of card counters were down on him, saying the games would be a lot better if it wasn't for him. I have the opposite view. I liked the fact that he would sue the casinos, he would go before these gaming commissions and try to win the right for counters to play. I kind of liked that. He wasn't letting the casinos push him around. I think if it wasn't for him, the casinos would have been more abusive than they have been toward counters.
After your initial success there with your four-man team, then what did you do?
Well, two of our guys - Doug and Dave - bought Wong's "Blackjack in Asia" book which talked about some games in Asia that had great rules and no heat (scrutiny from the pit personnel), so they decided to go off to Asia.
I think by this time I had between $50,000 and $100,000 and I thought I was the richest guy in the world even though I was only a 23-year-old kid. I decided to train some more of my friends at the golf course to play. I would put up the money and they would get a percentage of what they won. I trained one or two and we did really well. Luckily, I picked some good guys and they worked out well. Then, things just snowballed unbelievably. Eventually, the team got a little bit out of control.
I would have somebody calling me or asking me to teach them how to play at least once a week. I had a hard time saying no and ultimately, things got a little disorganized. We probably had some slippage (skimming, sloppy play) as a result of that. At this time we had about 30 or 40 people on the team.
You were bankrolling 30 or 40 people?
I was the main investor, but these people would win and they would invest some of their winnings back in the bankroll, and I think we also got some outside people to invest - parents or relatives. It was an evolving thing.
When you say these other people would "invest" does that mean you needed more money for your bankroll? Your initial bankroll wasn't big enough?
Well, we wanted to bet high. There were two main teams around back then: Ken Uston's and the Czech team, a bunch of guys from Czechoslovakia and we were kind of in awe at how high they were betting. We were trying to win money and also get a bankroll to bet as high as they were.
How high would they bet?
They were betting the table maximum at a very small advantage (1/2 of one percent). We wanted to be able to do that too because we had read the books which said that the more you bet the higher your hourly win rate would be.
And the table max was $1,000?
During the experiment it was $1,000 but then they lowered it to $500.
Okay, so you had some success, you expanded, and then it wound up being like 30 or 40 people on your team. What happened next?
What happened was it got a little unwieldy with all these people. Then Atlantic City took out early surrender and that's when the game became a lot harder to beat. You had to be more skilled and more disciplined. I think what happened was that we had our first losing bankroll. We took a little break and some people quit or went off to play on their own. Four or five of us joined up with three other guys that were playing mostly in Vegas.
One of these guys was from Princeton and another guy was from Michigan University. They were real smart guys and we started playing using these advanced techniques, mainly shuffle tracking. There were a lot of real juicy shuffles here in Las Vegas and also in Atlantic City.
What year was this?
This would have been about 1982.
So you formed another team. Did you ever play by yourself?
Not really. Maybe a few months here and there, but I've always pretty much been with a group or a team.
Why do you like teams as opposed to doing it on your own?
There are a lot of reasons that teams are good. Obviously, there are some negatives but I think the positives far outweigh the negatives. The main advantage of having a team is that it really smoothes out the fluctuations. I mean, if you play by yourself, it's hard to get enough hours to assure a win. You could play for a year or so, play perfectly, and still be behind. If you have a six or seven man team that's virtually impossible. The other thing is that you can bet a lot higher by pooling your money. If five people have $100,000 you can bet as if you all had $500,000 and that's a huge advantage. There's also a sense of camaraderie and team spirit. I've been fortunate to play with some really creative people. You sit around and bounce different ideas around and you come up with some really good ideas that you wouldn't have come up with on your own.
So when you came out here and joined up with the other guys to form a new team how did you do?
We did really well. Like I said, we were mostly playing shuffles. We were playing a lot in Vegas and a little bit in Atlantic City. We were also traveling around to the Caribbean and in general it went really well. We made quite a bit of money.
How long did that last?
I'm really bad at chronology, but this was 1982 to probably 1990. I still play with some of those same guys today.
It was basically the same team for eight years?
No. It was a bit of a mix because what happened is we would have these little projects where we would have big players come in, so it wasn't like a stagnant thing. There were people constantly in and out and we would actually have 30 or 40 people but a lot of them were part-time.
Some casinos would be offering a really good game and we would look for different ways to exploit it. A lot of these guys had friends and we had this big pool of people that we would have to teach how to do everything. We might have one particular game that we could exploit and we would teach some new guy everything he had to do to beat it. Or, maybe some guy had a good look and a good act, so we would just teach him basic strategy and we could give signals to do all the rest of the stuff. We had a whole host of projects and different schemes to exploit some weakness in a particular casino. We had people coming in and out; somebody would play for us for one year and we would never see them again. We had guys from Australia, China, everywhere. It was an exciting time with a lot of adventure.
What happened to the team in 1990?
Well, what happened was, as we made some pretty good money these other guys lost a lot of their interest in blackjack and they wanted to do other things. One guy went off to do horse racing in Hong Kong. He's famous for that in the gambling circles. Another guy got into the stock market. Some of the guys dabbled in poker for a year or two.
It's really been kind of an ongoing thing, but basically we're still doing the same stuff today. Blackjack is a little tougher right now but some of those original people are still invested in blackjack even though they are doing other things. I have some people who have played for 15 to 20 years and still play pretty much full-time and then I have some others that play part-time. I guess since 1982, it's never like one team has ended and a new one started, it's kind of been an evolving thing with people leaving and coming back.
So, since you first started back in 1979, you've always continued to have teams in one form or another?
Right.
Where are your teams now? Do you play throughout the United States? Is everyone together? Or, do they spread out all over the place?
We don't play as much in Vegas and Atlantic City as we used to. Those games are not as good as elsewhere in the country, so we're spread out all over the country. You know, a lot of people when they hear "blackjack team," they think you all go to the same casino together and you sit on the same table together and play, but that's not what we do. I mean we do have some games with big players and call people in, but we mainly just pool our money and we all go our various ways and we keep track of the results. Then, at a certain agreed upon date, we split the profits. We split the proceeds about every six months.
So each player plays for six months?
Well, the bankroll lasts for six months and then we split it up and start another one. We've done it that way for several years. We used to play to a "money target which meant that we played until we won a certain amount of money. There are advantages and disadvantages of doing it both ways.
If you hit your "money target" before the six months was up, would you stop playing?
That's what I'm saying, we did it two different ways. We used to have a money target and not have a time limit. We would just play until we won that amount of money and that has its advantages too. Everybody's striving for a goal, everybody's trying to hit the target, but it has a lot of disadvantages too. You never know how much money you are going to have and when you'll have it. So, lately we've been doing it by the time target. Play for six months and then investors get a share, players get a share, stuff like that.
Do you always make money?
No. We've had some devastating bankrolls where you lose for quite a while. Basically, we've been pretty successful, but we've had some rough times where you have a nice chunk of money and you thought you'd never have to worry again and then, suddenly, you're almost broke.
How rare is it to lose money after a six month period?
It's pretty rare...but it does happen. The whole key is getting in a lot of hours. If you get in a lot of hours and the people are honest, you basically cannot lose. A lot of players now are part-time and we aren't getting in that many hours and I think out of the last three years we only lost money in one of the six-month periods
How many people are on your team?
About 15. A lot of these are part-time and there are about five or six people that play full-time. I also make some temporary arrangements with people that I know are good players. I have a couple guys coming out for the Super Bowl and they may not play again until the next Super Bowl. We just have a certain arrangement for that weekend.
But mostly your team is spread out all over the country?
Right.
Do you play yourself?
Yeah, I still play. I play a fair amount. I'm basically addicted to golf, so if it wasn't for golf I would play a lot more, but I try and make myself play at least once a week.
Here in Vegas?
Whenever I'm in a location where I can play.
Do they let you play in Vegas?
I can still play some places in Vegas. I don't play very long and I don't bet super high, but I play a few hours a week.
What's your maximum bet?
A lot of times when I go into a casino I'll say to myself "I think I'll bet small today. I'll only go up to $500 or $600 and try not to get any attention. "But, what invariably happens is the count gets real high and I just blast it out there. I usually don't bet more than $2,000 on a hand.
Doesn't that draw a lot of attention?
Yeah, it does and I usually can't stay for the next shoe but most times I'll finish that one shoe.
You use the high/low method?
Yes, I've always used the high/low. I've never used any other count.
What would you say has been the biggest change in blackjack since your early years?
There's been a lot of change. I guess the biggest change would be the proliferation of the casinos. Instead of having two states with blackjack, at least half the states have blackjack now. But that's been countered by the fact that the casinos are getting smarter. The spread of information is a huge change. That's been bad for us. We haven't benefited as much from technology as the casinos have. It used to be if you got barred in a casino in Vegas, maybe a week later all the casinos in Vegas would have your picture or something like that. Now, if you get barred somewhere, numerous casinos throughout the world may have your picture within minutes. So that's been a big change. The games are also definitely worse, but there are more games so it's still possible to make a nice living from blackjack.
Do you have any funny stories about your blackjack exploits?
One that comes to mind is that I trained a lot of people to play and one summer I had a son of my parents' longtime friends. He was in college and had heard about blackjack and the success we had and decided he would like to play for the summer.
He came to Atlantic City and he picked it up real fast. He was a smart guy. He played in Atlantic City and he did well. Then he had a break during the college year and decided he'd like to make a trip to Vegas. He was all excited about the trip but it was a little scary to him because he had heard all these stories about how they might do something to you if you won a lot of money and they thought you were a card counter. So, naturally, he was a little apprehensive.
What year was this?
This would have been in the early 80s. He went to Vegas and he was playing at the old Sands Casino and he couldn't lose a hand. He had all these chips on the table and was getting real excited about how much he was winning. Then he noticed he was getting some attention from the pit, so he figured this would be a good time to take all his chips and take a break to go count them. So, he goes into the bathroom, he has all these chips in his pockets and he's pulling them out and counting them when, all of a sudden, there's a loud knock on the stall door. He opens the door and looks out and sees a big security guard there staring at him while he has his chips and money all over the place and the guard goes, "What are you doing?" And he says, "...sorry, I was winning a lot of money and I was just counting it to just see how I was doing." And the guy says, "In the ladies room?"
Was he playing by himself or he was on the team?
He was out there playing on the team. Like I say, what we do basically is give somebody money to go play and we just let them loose, they go play wherever they want to, or they may have a particular casino in mind to go play.
Isn't it a problem if you go back to a casino all the time and you're winning? Because they always track you and eventually they will know that you are counting cards.
Right. The more you win, the less welcome you are going to be at casinos. So, that does happen. Today, there are so many casinos, you can use different names. You may play a casino, have a big win, not go back there for a year or so and then play as a different guy the next time. We do that all the time. We used to use disguises a lot.
Didn't you once disguise yourself as Santa Claus?
Yeah. Back in Atlantic City before Ken Uston won his case, they used to have this three-step process for barring counters. The first time they caught you, or if they just thought you were a card counter, they read you a card. We used to call this step one and basically the card would just say that you are no longer allowed to play blackjack, but you were allowed to play any other casino game.
Now, if they caught that same person a second time, they would tell them you are no longer allowed on the premises. Then, if that same person came back again and they discovered them, they would then arrest them for trespassing.
What happened was that, as you played more and more, you would get the step one card read to you at every casino but, then you would just sneak back in, or try and look different or play a different shift.
We thought it was outrageous that you could get kicked out of a casino just for knowing how to play. We felt we were on the right side of this and we decided we were just going to play. We didn't care what card they read to us and a lot of times we would get arrested for trespassing.
It was Christmas Eve and I decided I would dress up as Santa Claus even though I had already been read step two in this particular casino but they wouldn't know who it was, so they wouldn't be able to arrest me for trespassing. I was just playing and everybody was coming up to me..."Hey Santa Claus, how're you doing?"
Everybody thought it was funny, but then all of a sudden the count went up and I was betting real big. At that time we used to do these things we called "raids" where we would send everybody in there. We would have 10 or 15 people go in the same casino at the same time, figuring if they're reading the card to one guy, somebody else would be able to get some bets out there. So, we had a whole bunch of people in there and one of us heard the pit guy on the phone..."Yeah I got a guy down here on one table betting double thousands, I think I remember him, and then there's this guy over here betting purple chips, and over here is Santa Claus going crazy." It was kind of funny but they were good sports about it. They told me no more blackjack and they didn't try to do anything else. They saw the humor in it.
What do you see in the future for blackjack? Obviously, it's a cat and mouse game between you and the casinos. Do you think you'll always be able to do this? Or, do you think the casinos will come up with things to thwart you, such as continuous shuffling machines?
Luckily for us, the continuous shuffling machines don't seem to be too popular with the general public. A lot of the attraction of blackjack is that pretty much everybody who gambles in a casino has heard that blackjack is the only game you can beat. So, the casinos would be taking a risk by putting in a totally unbeatable game with all continuous shufflers. They just don't seem too popular.
What I have noticed is that a lot casinos will put them in on their smaller-limit tables but they won't put them on their higher-limit tables because most high rollers don't want to play them. Also, it seems to me they are now taking as many out as they are putting in. I don't think they are a major threat and I don't think that they are going to spread to where almost everybody is going to have them.
People like the idea of having a hot shoe and going on a streak. To have a never ending shoe doesn't seem to be that popular with the general public. Even though, if you're not counting, it shouldn't really matter, but the publics perception is that it does matter and I don't think the public will accept them.
I think for the next decade or so there is certainly money to be made in blackjack. If you move around and you are disciplined, it is still possible to make a good living playing blackjack. Although it is still shocking to me that casinos are able to treat skilled players the way they do.
I remember saying to a guy back in the early 80s, when I was being forced into a back room, "you won't be able to do this in a few years. The courts will stop this." It's obviously a violation of civil rights and it just amazes me - well it doesn't really amaze me - but it's sad that the casinos are so powerful and they can get away with the things they do. After Ken Uston won his court case in New Jersey, I figured all the states eventually would stop treating skilled players as criminals, but that hasn't been the case. We have to fight for every inch. The casinos still take a lot of liberties with what they do and they treat us terribly. It just never seemed fair that they can offer a game to the public, say what the rules are, and then abuse people that just play by those rules.
It's a shame that the casinos don't have the same attitude towards professional blackjack players as they do towards professional sports bettors. I bet some sports and the sports books are incredibly gracious and nice whether I win or lose. Most of the personnel are really friendly and seem to enjoy matching wits with all of their customers, no matter what their skill level.
Right now Missouri and Atlantic City are the only two states with laws preventing casinos from barring card counters?
Right but it's a little fuzzy elsewhere. I'm not sure exactly what the law is in Illinois or Indiana, but it's likely they aren't allowed to do it there either. Plus, there are lots of jurisdictions all over the world that aren't allowed to bar a card counter. Like some of the provinces in Canada and Australia which have a lot of laws to protect counters.
Well, from the casino's perspective, they are in business to make money. Do you think they should really let you play if you can beat them?
Absolutely. They have the choice as to whether or not they want to offer the game. Or, they could offer only continuous shuffle blackjack, or they could change the rules to make naturals (two-card 21s) pay even money, or pay six-to-five, like they're doing now in some places. These measures would virtually prevent anyone from getting an edge at blackjack.
They should be able to put up whatever game they want, but they should have to smile and deal; and that should be the end of it. They shouldn't be able to only deal to drunks or people that aren't too sharp. Every other game is like that - it's only blackjack where they take people in the back room, attempt to intimidate them and even arrest them.
They're still doing that nowadays?
Oh yeah. I don't mean to say that it happens all the time. Most places are pretty nice but it still happens. There are lawsuits all the time for people getting roughed up. It just kind of depends on the place and the particular person in the casino that takes a dislike to you, or how much you win.
I haven't heard many stories about backrooming people but I know I've heard stories where counters were rousted from their room in the middle of the night and kicked out.
Absolutely. That happened to me this year. It happens all the time. The other thing they do now, with these plastic card keys, is they change the code on the computer, so when you go up to your room after a long night of playing you find that you're locked out. You go down to the front desk and the clerk will say, "oh, just a minute sir, there seems to be a problem" and all of a sudden security will be there to escort you up to your room to kick you out. Surely that's not legal, but you don't really have much recourse. None of the lawyers want to take these cases because as long you don't get beat up or something, you don't have any real damages.
The casinos do a lot of things that are either in a gray area or they are definitely not allowed to do, but you don't have much recourse it seems to me. The casinos are very powerful in Nevada. Most of the horror stories are heard from Nevada, but there are some from other places. That's the one thing I have to give Ken Uston credit for. You never hear any of those stories in Atlantic City. That's the one nice thing. Whenever you're in Atlantic City, playing by the rules, you don't have to worry about some sort of nonsense going on.
And that's because they're not allowed to bar counters in Atlantic City?
Right.
Some players believe that Uston ruined blackjack in Atlantic City with his lawsuits. They say you can't get a decent game because of him but you actually have the opposite opinion?
Yeah, I'm a firm believer that what he did was good. I'd rather play a little worse game and not be worried about having some problem in the middle of the night.
When it happened to you, were you in the room?
Yes, it was in Mississippi and I was in the room. Actually, when I made my last play at the blackjack table I saw some guy kind looking at me funny, but I thought I was just getting a little paranoid, so I left the casino and went to a movie.
When I came back to my room, I was sitting there reading, it was around 11 at night, and the phone rang. I picked it up and the person on the other end hung up. I wondered what that was about and then about 15 minutes later there were five security guards at my door telling me that I was being asked to leave immediately. They marched me through the casino with my suitcase and they were surrounding me. I had to go cash out all my chips. It was embarrassing
Were you there as a guest of the casino?
Yeah.
I would imagine if you were paying for the room they couldn't do that?
You would think so, but I'm sure they would. I would have been happy to pay but I never tried that. I'm sure they would say no, you're getting kicked out. I don't think that would have worked. A lot of times they will renege when you're there as a guest of the casino. They will come to your room, march you down to the front desk and make you pay some exorbitant rate before they will let you leave. That happens fairly often.
Do you have any advice for the average blackjack player?
I think probably the best advice I could give them, is that it's not as hard to learn to play blackjack as most people think. The most common misconception is that you have to be some sort of math whiz or memory expert in order to do it.
You mean to count cards?
Well, the only way to play blackjack successfully is to count cards. With the stakes I play, I see other people playing high stakes and it boggles my mind that they can be so successful in business and work so hard to make all this money and they are willing to just gamble it away so easily. It's absolutely ridiculous not to at least learn basic strategy.
It takes a reasonably intelligent person maybe 10 hours to memorize it totally. If they're too lazy to do that, they can even put the strategy card on the table. Almost every casino will let you put the basic strategy card on the table and it's just crazy to be playing at a big disadvantage when you can be playing at a very small disadvantage
Learning to keep track of the cards only takes 15 to 20 hours. You just get a deck of cards, you flip them and you practice. Even if you don't learn anything else, that's enough to give you a slight edge over the house. If you just keep the running count and play basic strategy you can get an advantage. So, it's not a daunting mission to learn how to do it; it's not that difficult. Now, doing it full-time, or trying to make money full-time is difficult, but there's no reason the average person can't at least play a break-even game of blackjack.
xxx
cool post, thanks... *NM*
Posted by gorilla player on 20-Dec-2004 21:40:35 (#11388)
Great read *NM*
Posted by SammyBoy on 21-Dec-2004 14:49:23 (#11397)
Who was that CC on 60 Minutes a long long time ago?
Posted by Automatic Monkey on 21-Dec-2004 17:29:40 (#11399)
I remember when I was a kid back in the late 70's or early 80's I was watching 60 Minutes and they had a card counter on. All I remember was that he gave his system tags during the interview, and that was the first time I ever heard of counting. Anybody remember that, or know who it was?
It was Ken Uston *NM*
Posted by Alexander Mundy on 21-Dec-2004 18:22:33 (#11400)
Stalker, anyone?
Posted by zengrifter on 20-Dec-2004 22:16:14 (#11389)
If anyone has a line on Stalker, please send me his email address,
or otherwise have him drop me a line, thanks! zg griftzen@yahoo.com
You can probably contact him now at... *LINK*
Posted by Barfarkel on 28-Dec-2004 01:46:57 (#11470)
...http://www.blackjackforumonline.com/
Go to the message boards and select "Fight Club."
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