At one time, the website CardCounter.com held an active message forum with many contributors. When the previous site owner planned to shut down the site, he allowed us to archive the messages here at BlackjackInfo. They are formatted as they originally appeared, but no further comments on threads are permitted. If you want to discuss any of these topics, please do so at the BlackjackInfo Forums.
Hole-Carding
Posted by Cyrano on 21-Dec-2004 01:38:57 (#11391)
Hope this doesn't violate the new posting guidelines, but since I've never seen it happen before, I was wondering... do dealers flash more often in pitch or shoe games?
The zen of flashing
Posted by Learning to count on 21-Dec-2004 08:20:02 (#11393)
In my experience I have seen the majority of flash in a pitch game. It does occur in shoe games. The bottom line is you have to find a dealer who is sloppy. These translates to rookie, sloppy, and or dealers who do not care for what ever reason. You also have to check every angle to see where the flash may be appearing. Just remember there are many other games where flashing occurs you just have to be sensitive to such dealer hand movements .
Thanks for the info..
Posted by Cyrano on 21-Dec-2004 12:52:05 (#11396)
The closest thing i've come to seeing a flash was a dealer that tilted the card a little high while sliding it under the exposed card, but the shadow of the card obscured the number.. he must have recognized that his move was a little exaggerated and didn't do it again.. :-(
Agree with LTC.....
Posted by phantom007 on 21-Dec-2004 20:44:50 (#11401)
In SD and most DD, wherein Dealer's (usually) Left hand is occupied with holding and "hiding" the deck(s), this leaves just one hand to slide their 2nd card below their upcard, AND NO HAND(s) to shield the slide, therefore sometimes creating an "angled slide" wherein certain players may "get a peek".
Especially in SD, many Dealers often use their "DECKED HAND" to shield the upcard as they slide in their downcard....occasionally, reveals a peek as to "What will not be played".
Conversely, in 6D, or any game dealt out of a Shoe, Dealer will usually "have a free hand", and often uses same to "shield" his/her cards as they slide in their 2nd one.
In my experience, MOST "HCF's" were "Tip-Hustling", i.e., Dealers who realized I tip, and gave US an advantage when it helped US...the same Dealers who often mis-count your 4-card 17's as "Pushes" and your 5-card 22's as wins. I usually avoid these types.
Do not get me wrong....I WANT AN ADVANTAGE! However, if I am kicked out of a certain Casino, I can always walk next door, and go to their Steak House, and usually free. These meals will usually be tasteful, satisfying, and will not hit the rectum for at least a day (unless I also eat the veggie appetizer).
However, I do not want to experience the STEAKS in the Clarke Co. Jail (LV) or the Tunica Co. Jail (MS)....this would/could happen if I were in collusion with a Dealer, or suspected of such. I have heard that their STEAKS are not tasty, not satisfying, AND HIT THE RECTUM ALMOST IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE MOUTH!
LTC, GREAT to see a post from you!
phantom007.
Your post needs to be busted.
Posted by Tom on 22-Dec-2004 12:27:59 (#11405)
I'm sure you read Mayor's new guidline,yet you still choose to post this stuff and make matters worse.
No wonder there's so much pit paranoia in today's blackjack world.
Card counters such as yourself are more interested in touting their own wisdom and beliefs all over the internet while digging a deeper whole for the true AP's of blackjack.
This info is way too well-known
Posted by Automatic Monkey on 22-Dec-2004 15:26:19 (#11407)
Come on man even before I learned to count I noticed that dealers would sometimes expose themselves. It's got to be one of the first things they teach in dealer's school. That's different from revealing an advantage player-developed method that can beat a game in a different way or beat a game previously thought resistant to advantage play.
Which rules?
Posted by Cyrano on 22-Dec-2004 21:17:50 (#11409)
Phantom didn't leak any information that would "compromise specific advantage situations." All he did was illustrate how dealers deal pitch and shoe games, and then he told us that some dealers cross that line of ethics. It's good information to know...
Good info for who?
Posted by Tom on 23-Dec-2004 02:09:28 (#11410)
It's post like his that does absolutely nothing but cause casino paranoia in the world of LURKERS. Duh,do you and AM have to wonder why?
Just got back
Posted by The Mayor on 23-Dec-2004 10:43:23 (#11412)
I agree with you Tom, I wish people would not post threads like these. I wish that mostly people would talk about how wonderful card counting is, and drive those who read their posts to try card counting. But this board has to allow people to speak in generalities about other *already known* methods. Such information as the poster requested already appears in books in print, how could it not be allowed here?
--Mayor
As long as we have now agreed...
Posted by zengrifter on 25-Dec-2004 00:00:38 (#11435)
... that "book-published" info can be discussed, would someone please post a simplified hole-card strategy for BJ. zg
Don't know about simplified..
Posted by Cyrano on 25-Dec-2004 06:46:23 (#11440)
but, BJ for Blood has a hole-card BS chart...
Dont make much sense.
Posted by Tom on 25-Dec-2004 04:11:55 (#11438)
You dont want to talk about basic strategy of hole card play,which is simple fundamentals and no big secret,much of it is common sense!? Yet you let a post remain that implies or suggest flashing,collusion,bribing,cheating,etc. is everywhere and dealers can be bought. I have over a dozen BJ books and NONE of them mention or imply this. In my opinion just because an obscure book is out there, does not justify good reason to keep the post up. I say,let the casino trolls go find the book for themself and get all paranoid after they read it.What exactly you're trying to hide from hole-card play,I'll never know,but I certainly hope it's not basic strategy.
I truly believe(actually, it's the truth)that many internet BJ message boards have damaged our game of BJ through out the years and have made conditions much worse that what they used to be, much of this is do to absurd casino
p-A-ra-N-oIa and rumours.
Merry Christmas Mayor,
Tom
2005 Blackjack Hall of Fame Nominees
Posted by Arnold Snyder on 21-Dec-2004 21:36:57 (#11402)
Here is the list of the 2005 Nominees for the Blackjack Hall of Fame, with their biographies.
The nominees were selected by nomination and vote of the current members of the Blackjack Hall of Fame, and the biographies have been written and approved by the current Hall of Famers.
There are nine current Hall of Famers, including seven living members (alphabetically):
Al Francesco
Tommy Hyland
Peter Griffin*
Max Rubin
Arnold Snyder
Keith Taft
Edward O. Thorp
Ken Uston*
Stanford Wong
*passed away
All seven living members were invited to submit names of possible candidates, with biographical information and reasons for consideration. No limitations were placed on the number of names that could be submitted. All seven members then voted on their top seven choices with all members' votes counting equally. Each member's votes were provided to all other members to insure the integrity of the process.
The purpose of the Blackjack Hall of Fame is twofold: to honor people of exceptional accomplishment in this field, and to educate the public about the creativity, intelligence, drive, and courage of great players whose achievements at the tables have largely been hidden from the public. The rules for public voting require that the biographies of the nominees be posted wherever the voting takes place. Public voting is currently taking place at the Las Vegas Advisor Web site: http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/
The Seven Nominees (in alphabetical order):
1. Ian Andersen. In his landmark 1976 book, Turning the Tables on Las Vegas, Ian Andersen was the first author to recognize that the professional blackjack player's opponent is not merely a mathematical entity, but people. Andersen was the first to describe the psychology of the match between players and casino personnel, and the first to discuss the importance for a high-roller of maintaining a friendly table image and cultivating relationships with the bosses and casino managers. He discussed how this image could allow a player to profit from playing dealer tells and limit the damage even when his advantage play was detected.
Andersen was describing his own successful playing style in his book. While other card counters had played at the highest stakes offered, he was one of the first to get away with it for very long. What Al Francesco was doing with team play and Stanford Wong was doing with table-hopping-getting away with a huge betting spread--Andersen was doing with solo play, at single-deck games, without ever leaving the table, based on his relationships with his opponents.
Andersen knew first hand the financial value of avoiding heat. In a number of unpublished texts, other professional players of the time described how his style allowed him to negotiate profitable loss-rebate deals with casinos and carry out a wide variety of innovative advantage plays around the world.
2. Julian Braun. Braun died ten years ago and his book is long out of print, so he is not widely known by the public today. But the fact is, for ten years in the early days of card counting, Braun was the man who ran the first extensive million-hand simulations of the popular card-counting systems to determine their win rates in single-deck and four-deck games, with various betting spreads, different rules sets, and with or without a side count of aces. These simulation results gave professional players, for the first time, an accurate handle on their expected win rates in real-life games.
But Julian Braun was not just another computer programmer. When modern day blackjack software sellers write their programs, there are already dozens of blackjack simulation programs out there to emulate. People can test their programs by seeing how closely they match existing programs and reproduce data that is already well known. Braun was working from scratch. He not only analyzed the problems, he had to figure out how to analyze them. Other than the data that had already been computed by Thorp on the Ten Count, Braun had no other charts or tables to guide him.
In 1963, Braun met Harvey Dubner at a computer conference in Las Vegas. Dubner had created a counting system that is now popularly known as the Hi-Lo Count. Braun recognized the simplicity of this counting system relative to Thorp's Ten Count and immediately began working on a program that could be used to develop accurate strategy indices for it. Thorp recognized Braun's work on Dubner's counting system as so valuable that he included it in the revised 1966 edition of Beat the Dealer. The Hi-Lo Count has gone on to become the most widely-used counting system among both amateur and professional players because of its combined power and simplicity.
Braun's programs were then employed by Lawrence Revere in creating all of his counting systems, as well as by Lance Humble in developing the Hi-Opt systems. From 1966 through 1975 these systems were the most accurate and powerful counting systems available. Every professional player of that time, including most of the current Hall of Famers, used one of these systems.
3. Bill Erb. Al Francesco has named Bill Erb as one of the two greatest players he has ever worked with, both in terms of creativity and sheer amount of money won. Ken Uston acknowledged Erb in his book, Ken Uston on Blackjack, and, in another of his books, paid him the "high compliment" of describing one of Erb's great plays as his own.
A few stories about Erb that can be shared with the public:
Al Francesco initially met Erb in 1972 while playing poker and realized immediately that Erb was a very savvy gambler. For three weeks he trained Erb-who had never counted cards-to play the Revere Advanced Point Count; then departed with him on a playing trip to Panama. There they played the 4-deck games, mostly with $100 maximums, and over a period of three weeks won $38,000.
Francesco described one hand on this trip that convinced him that Erb was beyond the norm in talent. Francesco had finished playing and wandered over to the table where Erb was playing. At this casino, the table limit was $200 per hand, and Erb had out five hands of the table max. As Francesco approached, Erb had just been dealt four hands totaling between 18 and 20. The dealer had a ten up and at this casino the dealers did not take a hole card until the players had completed their hands. Francesco looked at the table, pointed to the dealer's ten up, and said, "Hit." The dealer slid the next card out of the shoe, which turned out to be an ace, giving himself a blackjack. As he began sweeping the bets off the table, Erb said, "What the hell are you doing?!" The dealer seemed confused and started to point to his blackjack, and Erb said, "I haven't made a single decision yet! That guy can't tell you how to play my hands!" The dealer called over the pit boss, explained the problem, and the boss asked Erb how he wanted to play his hands. Erb said that all of his hands were fine, except for the two nines, which he wanted to split. The boss told the dealer to split the nines and to put the ace he had dealt to himself on one of them. Then he hit the other nine with a ten, giving Erb two hands of 20 and 19. The dealer then dealt a card to complete his own hand--a seven, making a 17 total. Erb was paid off on all six bets, a $1200 win, instead of losing $1000.
In 1973, Francesco had a Big Player team in Vegas. There were two groups of six spotters. When one group finished a play early, they contacted Francesco, and Al told them to go to the Aladdin where Erb was BPing on two-deck games. So, Erb had twelve spotters in a casino with two-deck games where big advantages were occurring much faster than he could keep up with them. Instead of giving up on these "excess" advantageous bets, he began to have the pit bosses place bets for him on other tables. He played for hours, three to four tables at a time, three to four hands of table max on each table, orchestrating bosses to place bets and then calling across the pit to tell them how to play the hands. (It was this play that Uston described as his own.) Erb is well known to professional players for his ability to think fast under pressure and for trying almost anything to get the money.
In 1974, Francesco and Erb found a casino in Dieppe, France with 4-deck games dealt literally to the bottom. The casino had only three blackjack tables, with $100 maximums. Over a period of ten days, with each placing max bets of 3 x $100, they had won a combined total of $220,000 (US), when the owner of the casino called off the game, explaining that the house did not have the money to pay them. The players did eventually collect all but about $20K from the casino. According to Francesco, "This is the only instance I know of where two card counters literally put a casino out of business."
Erb is also known as an expert hole card player, who won tens of thousands in plays at small casinos with $50 maximums. He was able to take much greater amounts of money out of casinos that could afford big action. He was the first known professional blackjack player to negotiate and milk loss rebates. In the early to mid-80s, Erb played table limit stakes for several years at major Las Vegas and Lake Tahoe casinos where he had negotiated loss rebates of up to 50%.
4. The Four Horsemen: Roger Baldwin, Wilbert Cantey, Herbert Maisel and James McDermott. In 1956, they developed and published the first accurate basic strategy for blackjack, bravely refuting the work of John Scarne, the predominant gambling author of the time. They had spent three years crunching numbers on mechanical adding machines to develop this strategy. They also published in 1957, five years prior to Thorp, the first card counting strategy; it appeared in their book, Playing Blackjack to Win, in a chapter titled "Using the Exposed Cards to Improve Your Chances." Thorp acknowledged in Beat the Dealer that it was the work of the Four Horsemen that initially encouraged him to use a high-speed computer to take their findings further.
5. James Grosjean. The youngest player ever to be nominated to the Blackjack Hall of Fame, at 35, James Grosjean began his playing career when he was a student, counting cards at low limits on shoe games. Then he walked by a table where a dealer was inadvertently exposing hole cards. He went home and wrote a program to determine the correct playing strategy and potential advantage from applying it. Within three weeks he had turned his $1000 bankroll into tens of thousands.
As new types of games began appearing in casinos in the late 1990s, Grosjean became one of a handful of professional players who recognized their potential value to players, and the first to analyze them in detail. A small portion of this analysis was published in his 2000 Beyond Counting, which was instrumental in expanding opportunities for professional players. One of his discoveries was a radical correction of the calculated edge available from optimal hole-card strategy with flat-betting. Numerous authors had reported the maximum edge at roughly 9.9%. Grosjean showed it was really over 13%. Other casino games for which he provided analyses in his book include Caribbean Stud, Let It Ride, Three Card Poker, Casino War, mini-baccarat, and the Big 6 Wheel.
Grosjean also developed a computer with Hall of Famer Keith Taft and his son, Marty Taft, for use in locations where such devices were still legal. The strategy they used was one of the strongest legal advantage plays ever deployed in a casino. Taft characterizes Grosjean's programming skills as "absolutely brilliant."
Grosjean is highly regarded by professional players not only for his creativity and versatility, but also for his perfectionism and aggressiveness of attack at the tables. But he has done more with his talent than win a lot of money. Recently he brought his determination, analytic skills, and meticulous attention to detail to bear in a successful lawsuit against Imperial Palace for player harassment, at significant risk to his career. He was recently awarded $690,000 by the jury in this suit. This lawsuit, and another one he has pending against Caesars, were directly responsible for changes in policy at the Nevada Gaming Control Board and Las Vegas Metro Police regarding the treatment of players.
6. Lawrence Revere. In 1969 Lawrence Revere self-published Playing Blackjack as a Business. It was a 36-page spiral bound pamphlet that revolutionized the way that professional players counted cards. It was revolutionary in its radical simplification of some really complicated methods.
In the 1962 edition of Beat the Dealer, Thorp had provided a Ten Count system in which the player needed to keep counts of both tens and non-tens and then compute a ratio in order to make betting and playing decisions. In the 1966 edition, he provided his Complete Point Count system, in which the player needed to keep the plus/minus Dubner count, plus a backwards-running count of the exact number of cards remaining to be played in order to adjust the running count for the depth of the deal.
Thorp also proposed a simple technique of dividing a point count by the approximate number of decks remaining to be played, but provided only betting information with no strategy indices for this technique. Revere realized that the simplicity of this proposed "true count adjustment" method made it superior for actual use in the casinos.
Revere created a number of counting systems based on this simple "true count" method, using Julian Braun's programs to devise full sets of playing indices for each. For five years (1969-1974), virtually every professional player converted to one of Revere's counting systems. Revere's approach has been employed by virtually every serious balanced point count system developer since, including Wong, Humble, Uston, and Snyder.
Revere was also known as a consummate professional player, deploying many techniques he never wrote about. Before he died in 1977, he tracked shuffles and played hole cards and tells. Players of the time describe him as someone who could go into a casino and get the money. He was barred from virtually every casino in Las Vegas, but continued until his death to play in disguise.
7. Allan Wilson. Allan Wilson was a mathematician at General Dynamics in San Diego, California when he became one of the early computer analysts of blackjack prior to the publication of Beat the Dealer. His 1965 book, The Casino Gambler's Guide, was the first to provide blackjack card counters with clear and practical explanations of standard deviation, risk of ruin, and the Kelly Criterion, as well as easy-to-use guidelines for bet sizing based on bankroll when an advantage player is using a betting spread. What was particularly notable was how simply Wilson was able to describe these difficult mathematical concepts for players of average math ability.
This type of information had never before been provided in texts on card counting. And it was many years more before other blackjack authors paid much attention to these subjects. Throughout the early history of card counting-most of the 1960s and 1970s-professional players used the information in Wilson's book to calculate bankroll requirements and betting approaches. Wilson's book also contained some of the first computer simulations comparing blackjack card counting systems.
Great Choices - Great Info on Each Nominee
Posted by Titaniumman on 22-Dec-2004 13:54:26 (#11406)
Thanks Bishop, for providing not only the announcement and the link, and not only for the insightful vitae on each of the nominees, but also for the explanation of how the selections are made and the purpose of the BJHOF.
Congrats to all of the living Hall of Famers for providing the public voters with a list of seven of the best next inductees for whom we can vote this year. Nice job.
Thanks Bish! *NM*
Posted by zengrifter on 22-Dec-2004 18:24:13 (#11408)
how did...
Posted by gehrig on 23-Dec-2004 10:40:30 (#11411)
max "6:5 is the best thing that ever happened to blackjack" rubin, get on such a list ?
BJHOF
Posted by Sun Runner on 23-Dec-2004 13:42:51 (#11416)
"max "6:5 is the best thing that ever happened to blackjack" rubin, get on such a list?"
It's not that hard really .. you conceive the idea yourself, talk a place like Barona into hosting it, pick four guys and yourself to be the initial inductees .. and boom, you're in.
Of course you have to leave out guys like Julian Braun and Don Schlesinger but hey, at least you got in while the gettin' was good!
Max vs. Don
Posted by Max Rubin Fan Club on 23-Dec-2004 20:42:42 (#11419)
'Comp City' is a way better and more useful book than 'Blackjack Attack' is. And that is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to why Max is in and Don is out.
max rubin has something in common with...
Posted by gehrig on 23-Dec-2004 22:42:53 (#11422)
a former las vegas mayor, ms. jones. that rubin now compromises truth in favor of a comped room, indicates dishonesty. if rubin is honorable enough to earn some hall of fame accolade, then so must be eligible *both* authors of "knock-out blackjack".
obviously his latest "move" to twist comps from the joints is to steer rubes to big hold 21 games. at least he's consistent.
What?
Posted by Max Rubin Fan Club on 24-Dec-2004 03:36:08 (#11427)
Are you attempting to subject the members of the Blackjack Hall of Fame to your own personal brand of moralization? Do you really know anything about Max Rubin, or are you just basing your ideas on speculation and hearsay? Does Barona offer a 6:5 single deck game or does it offer a single deck game which consistently has the best rules in the country? Is 'Comp City' not a useful book for both advantage players and ploppies?
my "particular brand of...
Posted by gehrig on 24-Dec-2004 12:00:31 (#11429)
moralization", that of simple integrity, applies when a casino shill deliberately steers viewers toward "house games". therein, he is absolutely no different than other such intellectually dishonest peddlers. he is on par with john patrick. and, i'm not certain that john patrick doesn't believe his defective systems, last time i spoke with him after a "sales presentation". rubin cannot possibly believe that the 6:5 payout is superior to the 3:2 game. that he would steer players to such games for a hanburger and free room is indicative of the breed of the cat, hence my comparison with the former mayor.
of course i'm wrong if john patrick's agenda of sending the sheep to the tables, armed with ineffective weapons, is laudable.
Please...
Posted by The Mayor on 24-Dec-2004 12:23:17 (#11431)
Max Rubin is a gentleman and an icon of advantage gaming. To get a sense of who he is, read his remarks in this month's podium (the Cellini tribute). I cannot imagine saying anything negative about MR. As for comparing him to DS, it's apples and oranges. They are talking about entirely different facets of advantage play, and the two cannot be compared in any sort of linear fashion. On purely human terms, Mr. Rubin is as generous and kind an individual as you will ever know.
So, my request is that both of you let this thread rest.
--Mayor
I'm still baffled
Posted by Max Rubin Fan Club on 24-Dec-2004 15:52:36 (#11432)
I'm afraid I cannot follow your argument at all. I would like you to be more concise and direct in your accusations against Max Rubin, instead of resorting to half-cocked comparisons to John Patrick which have no merit. Besides this, I see that you neglected to address any of my points. Again, Barona, the casino with which Max Rubin is most closely affiliated, offers a single deck game which consistently has the best rules in the entire country. How this translates to Max being a shill for 6:5 is beyond me.
And to the Mayor, I'm the type of person who compares apples and oranges on a regular basis. They're both fruit, and I like apples more. A crisp, juicy apple is hard to beat. What's more, you can eat the skin and they are very high in fiber. 'Comp City' and 'Blackjack Attack' are both books about exploiting chinks in the casinos' armor, and I like 'Comp City' more. Anyone from a total ploppy to a seasoned professional can extract more value from the material in 'Comp City' than he can from 'Blackjack Attack.' And that's what this is all about, right?
Max Rubin has accomplished a lot as a player, writer and overall pundit in the world of blackjack and deserves his inclusion among the elite in the BJHoF. And he has done this all without being an arrogant ass.
in deference to the request of the webhost...
Posted by gehrig on 25-Dec-2004 02:56:11 (#11437)
i only refer you to the earlier post which mentions mr rubin's statement on a cable tv, 21 "tournament" that "6:5 was the best thing that ever happened to blackjack". he is correct if his audience were the casino licensees. i suggest that the bulk of the viewers were patrons of casinos, not owners.
it appears that the major criticism of john patrick is that he deliberatley sends poorly armed players to their molestation at the hands of casino licensees. anyone who would steer or coerce gullible players to "house" games, be they "flip-it" slots or a 6:5 game is less than honest.
the issue is akin to an "advantage" 21 player offering advice to other players at a table. while i might not offer some superior advice based on a count or hole card info, i absolutely would not suggest a losing play.
With All Due Respects
Posted by Radar on 25-Dec-2004 20:22:29 (#11452)
"Anyone from a total ploppy to a seasoned professional can extract more value from the material in 'Comp City' than he can from 'Blackjack Attack.' And that's what this is all about, right?"
If you take a peek in the briefcase of any traveling AP Blackjack player, I would surmise that you would find many MORE copies of "BJA" inside than you will ever find "Comp City".
This is taking nothing away from Max, but Don DID provide the community with the I18 that is as important to us as Ed Thorp's "Beat the Dealer". Has Max provided us with anything remotely as valuable?
Seriously, why is it that Don's name is not even on the list of POSSIBLE inductees that will allow us to vote for him? I would have thought he would have at LEAST deserved a chance for people's votes by now. Ian Andersen made the candidates list this year, and deservedly so. I would say he has done more for the BJ community, as a whole, than others currently inducted. Smells like cronyism to me, for sure.
No shortage of brilliance...
Posted by The Mayor on 23-Dec-2004 11:43:45 (#11413)
Arnold,
Thanks for your post.
What an incredible list of candidates! Put them all in and wait 5 years before your next addition.
--Mayor
History
Posted by KevinBlackwood on 23-Dec-2004 12:01:04 (#11414)
Arnold, Great job putting together the biographical sketches of those giants. I had never before heard or read a lot of those details and found them very intriguing.
We welcome Mr Snyder to this podium...
ADMIN>AdminPost
Posted by Management on 23-Dec-2004 20:50:38 (#11420)
and we are honored that he visited this humble site. We hope he will become a active partcipant if not a Maestro at this site!
It is great to read you here
Posted by Sohrab on 24-Dec-2004 01:07:14 (#11424)
Mr. Bishop. I have missed you very much.
You mention Wilson and bet sizing, but it was your writing that taught me what Mr. Thorp did not - about risk of ruin and how bad swings can be. Thank you for that.
I hope you see Molly sometimes and she is fine, too!
where is Stu Ungar ?.
Posted by eyesfor21 on 25-Dec-2004 09:46:14 (#11443)
an amazing poker AND blackjack player,possibly one of the best
in the world behind Uston. The only player that used perfect
blackjack strategy if you all know that method.
Long since departed this planet...
Posted by The Mayor on 25-Dec-2004 10:10:23 (#11445)
Stu Ungar, 3 time winner of the WSOP, is deceased. There was a great movie about his life called "Stuey" -- an independent film. I saw it at the film festival at the Palms 2 years ago. Maybe it will get wider release because of the current poker craze, it was an excellent film.
You can learn all you want to know about Ungar's demise by googling his name.
--Mayor
mayor I know he 's passed but he should be on the list *NM*
Posted by eyesfor21 on 25-Dec-2004 10:12:35 (#11447)
more info on Ungar/one of the best!
Posted by eyesfor21 on 25-Dec-2004 10:10:36 (#11446)
http://www.pokerpages.com/articles/pokergreats/stu-ungar01.htm
he wasn't a BJ counter *NM*
Posted by zengrifter on 26-Dec-2004 04:07:38 (#11455)
zen
Posted by eyesfor21 on 26-Dec-2004 10:00:04 (#11456)
Stu Ungar, one of the worlds best players,
played perfect blackjack: a system that is a lot more difficult
than any counting system and will reap
results that are far more superior..
catch my drift..
I have never heard...
Posted by zengrifter on 27-Dec-2004 15:38:00 (#11465)
... any Stuey/BJ story that implies that he was anything but a high-variance gambler at BJ... same as his forays into roulette. zg
Stuey had extraordinary memory
Posted by Sohrab on 29-Dec-2004 07:34:25 (#11489)
for cards. He had standing offer about memorizing many decks, cards dealt, identify exact missing cards. No one would bet with him. Also he was top gin rummy player of all time.
Many poker players start at blackjack and got barred and turned to poker.
exactly sohrab
Posted by eyesfor21 on 29-Dec-2004 12:22:18 (#11494)
so much more than counting..
its called perfect blackjack..how many can count down a
6 deck shoe without counting get down to 5 decks and
could read the remainder of the cards left.This superb method
is very difficult to learn alot more accurate which
is why few have the ability but Stu did.
Vegas Trip To Imperial Palace
Posted by Qdini007 on 23-Dec-2004 16:26:14 (#11417)
Hi,
Just wondering if anyone else has done blackjack trips to Imperial Palace? I stayed there for 2 nights and every table I sat down at skyrocketed to a negative count and dealer would go on a streak and the dealer/player win ratio was approx 10:1. Is that just part of blackjack streak? And this will sound hokey cuz I've heard rumours that winning blackjack at IP is like impossible and thats one of the reasons why I chose to stay there to prove the rumour wrong...but I guess rumours are right?
Regards,
hmmm
Posted by gorilla player on 23-Dec-2004 20:40:18 (#11418)
My son and I played there back in the Summer. Seemed fine to me. Shoes seem to run in streaks for me anyway, but we did better there than at the Grand and Caesar's where we stayed (we split the trip between the two due to comps).
Seemed (to me anyway) that the pit was less paranoid about counters, although the 2D game I played by myself when my son went out prowling the strip seemed to be paranoid about marked cards for some reason. Never saw any while I was playing, but they sure checked them often enough to slow the game down. We went through more decks of cards than a 6d shoe game it seemed, sometimes having the cards changed out after only two shuffles... Never understood the point since players were not coming and going, there were only two-three of us 99% of the time I played...
Just the way it is.
Posted by Stealth Bomber on 24-Dec-2004 08:15:01 (#11428)
At least it's nice to know the big cards are there. You want to start worrying when you're at a small joint on 6D and you keep getting sucked into heavy counts, but keep losing because you keep getting junk.
It is possible that somebody keeps cutting the same and they have a very sharp dealer who front loads the big cards. If you know that's happening, you can really cook their azzes off with your big bets at the top of the pack.
Rookie's first trip
Posted by Garo on 23-Dec-2004 22:26:16 (#11421)
Fellas-
I want to thank you for your help. I took my first trip to some local IJs this weekend. My wins ranged from +100 units to -60 units and eventually walked away down 8 units, not bad for a first trip when I forgot the count a couple times. Any advise on getting over the anxiety of betting a lot of money on one hand?
Garo
In time...
Posted by suicyco maniac on 24-Dec-2004 00:24:03 (#11423)
..you will get very used to having big bets on the table...and when that time comes and you stop and think about how much money is up and how little it affects you it will seem almost sureal. My fisrt yar of playing I sweated a green WAY harder then I sweat multiple purples now. SM
unhinging the connection between...
Posted by gehrig on 24-Dec-2004 02:20:04 (#11426)
cash and casino checques is one of the two concurrent, player and casino objectives. as would the casino have it, the advantage player must ignore the real world, cash equivalency of casino checques. treat your pile as a score board. if you wager scared money, you may duck a double or split when mathematics calls for it.
the other objective for each is to crank out the maximum numbers of hands per hour.
You're exactly right
Posted by Garo on 24-Dec-2004 12:09:08 (#11430)
That's exactly what happened. With a TC+3 I had my last $100 out and drew a 7-3 against a dealer 6. I could have gotten more money and double down, but I was afraid to lose more. I ended up winning the hand.
"Any advise"
Posted by zengrifter on 24-Dec-2004 23:57:51 (#11434)
"Any advise on getting over the anxiety of betting a lot of money on one hand?"
-------------
When your two-hand topBet doesn't exceed 1.5% of your BR its NOT "a lot of money" riding... and IF your topBet is significantly and consistently more than 1.5% you WILL go broke. zg
too conservative results in little ror too.
Posted by eyesfor21 on 25-Dec-2004 09:35:31 (#11442)
mit had 10% top bets...they didn't do to bad. Sure this was not
all the time, but once in a while under extreme conditions.
Agreed...
Posted by zengrifter on 26-Dec-2004 11:37:35 (#11457)
... "once in awhile under extreme circumstances"... BUT a newbie wouldn't know what that is. Also, so-called "extreme circumstances" typically aren't count related. Rather, they are circumstance related: like knowing the first card is an Ace, or getting down on a "partnership double," or an extreme side-bet opp, etc. zg
MERRY CHRISTMAS CC's, AP's, PC's, and TROLLS!...
Posted by phantom007 on 24-Dec-2004 22:40:04 (#11433)
And if not politically correct, then "HAPPY HOLIDAYS"!
Wonder what a wad of gum or Skoal stuck to a card would do to a CSM???
Good CARDS!
phantom007.
Happy birthday Jesus!
Posted by learning to count on 25-Dec-2004 07:05:47 (#11441)
Same to you Phantom and a positive new year!
Jesus wasn't born 12/25...
Posted by zengrifter on 25-Dec-2004 13:41:10 (#11449)
... but Merry Xmass anyway. zg
It has Pagan origins
Posted by The Mayor on 25-Dec-2004 18:25:02 (#11451)
Three days after the Winter solstice, representing three days after the return of the light, corresponding to the three days before the resurrection.
yep
Posted by pooker101 on 25-Dec-2004 22:32:15 (#11453)
I'm pretty sure the pilgrims and puritans that came to America tried to outlaw celebrating it for that very reason
Happy Christmas, Merry Kwanza, Hanukkah, everyone ;O) *NM*
Posted by OnePitCritter on 25-Dec-2004 13:58:01 (#11450)
Rolling AC trip report
Posted by Automatic Monkey on 26-Dec-2004 01:15:29 (#11454)
This ends my first night of a three-day trip to Atlantic City. Hopefully by the end of this report we'll all be a little bit closer to accomplishing good play in a bad venue.
Didn't plan on coming here. I know better. But my trip to Biloxi got cancelled by US Airways, those indifferent idiots. After jerking me around for 90 minutes waiting on a plane that they knew damned well wasn't going anywhere that day, they finally admitted they were lying, took us off the plane and pretended to attempt to reaccomodate us.
"I'm flexible" I told them. "How about Jackson MI instead?"
"No."
"OK. Memphis Tennessee."
"No."
"Marquette MI?"
"No."
"All right. Surely, within 200 miles from here, there's a flight headed to Las Vegas Nevada, isn't there?"
"Are you joking, sir?"
"No."
"No."
In a few months, all those people are going to be unemployed. And I'm glad.
So I get back in my car and begin the 3 hour drive to AC. These games are hard to beat with straight counting so I hit the streets looking for opportunity.
First observation: the 6:5 SD games now dealt in all the casinos are no-hole card. I was hoping to catch some inexperienced pitch dealers flashing but that obviously is impossible.
Second observation: you can forget about Wonging in to any of these games. Packed solid, even on Christmas Day. Wonging, at least out, is necessary to beat these games and I wouldn't even attempt a play-all strategy with straight counting, anywhere in town.
Multiple Action BJ: This game looks somewhat beatable for a Wonger. The rules end up being equivalent to European no-hole card which is lousy, but you have the option of playing 2 or 3 rounds against the dealer on each hand. Now being the dealer is the only one taking extra cards, taking extra hands does not make a good count evaporate any faster. However you can make a bad count disappear right away by Wonging out. So it looks like this game has some potential.
Shuffle tracking: I watched the shuffle in every place in town and I saw some very secure ones. And I also saw a very beatable one! I'm not going to say what it is or where it is because the Mayor will justifiably run me out of town. But it's easy enough to find, and when you see it your eyes will light up. I'm running the sims now and tomorrow I'm going back to hammer them.
Ended the night at the 6D game at the Sands, up a few hundred. Day's results: up about $750 in 5 hours of WOnging, playing, and research. More news (hopefully good) tomorrow.
Rolling AC trip report, Day 2
Posted by Automatic Monkey on 27-Dec-2004 04:51:09 (#11461)
Today was a day for feeling sick. Woke up with a headache, and 6 aspirins and a Red Bull later I was feeling good enough to go and play.
First stop in the daytime was the 6D shoes at the Borgata. Things were moved around a bit; there is now an entire large pit of roulette where a BJ pit used to be. I've never seen a full pit of roulette before. Looked like there was some Wong-in action available so I sat down at a table that was well over my limit, just to buy some chip, play a few hands and leave.
But the count started going up, way up, and after 2 hands the count was high enough that the table min was where I should be betting. So I played it. And was losing. Count kept going up, kept losing. And about 2/3 of the way through I started winning and won every hand until the end. Walked away up $1200, feeling sick partly from the bad buffet I had eaten and partly from what I just experienced. Wonged around a little, didn't do well, left the Borgata up $1000.
Back to my room to finish my math homework, then back to the place with the vulnerable shuffle. Decided to attack the shoe in four 2D sections, A,B,C, and D, where the counts in the matching 2D sections after the shuffle can be expressed as:
A'= -[k(11)A+k(12)B+k(13)C+k(14)D]/n
B'= -[k(21)A+k(22)B+k(23)C+k(24)D]/n
C'= -[k(31)A+k(32)B+k(33)C+k(34)D]/n
D'= -[k(41)A+k(42)B+k(43)C+k(44)D]/n
where n is the sum of the constants in either the rows or the columns.
The constants were disguised as a phone number written on a cocktail napkin and taken with me to the table until I've used them enough to be sure of them.
And oh was this confusing! Tried it with one segment first, bet it, and everything went wrong. Something was terribly wrong and I couldn't figure it out. Yes, I remembered to reverse the sign of the count, but as I walked away down $400 I remembered, I forgot to divide by n! Duh!
Went to eat, and ordered some beef noodle soup. Oh God was it bad! Rancid broth, and the "beef" was just large chunks of fat. I only assume it was from a cow because no rat has veins that big. I gagged it down, as a reminder to myself never again to make costly errors at the table. Went to the men's room to make sure I was someplace appropriate if I was going to sick it up, didn't happen, so I went back to the table, doing my shuffle track properly. But, ah, curses! The shuffle is very fast, and I didn't have time to finish all of my math before it was done. So I went back to the room, redid the numbers or simplicity and made my constant n equal to 10 to ease the division. I returned to the casino and it worked a little better. Different phone number, surveillance must think I'm quite a stud, picking up a girl first from Chicago then from New York. Won back the remaining $200. But now I see how this shuffle tracking biz can really get you into trouble. Even slight errors in deck estimation and dealer grab size can create dangerous boundary effects. I'm not going to do it again until I've really worked the problem and practiced my method. Maybe a running count system would be more appropriate for this.
Finished the night at the Claridge Wonging in and out of their shoes. Down $100, for a total take on the day up $900. I didn't deserve it, any more than I deserve my losses, nor any less. See you tomorrow.
Rolling AC trip report, Day 3- final
Posted by Automatic Monkey on 28-Dec-2004 02:00:03 (#11471)
Today I started at the Downbeach section where the Hilton and Tropicana are located. The Tropicana is a nice property, looks like it tries the most to imitate the LV Strip experience. 8D shoes are dealt there with variable penetration. Many dealers on this weekday day shift were senior citizens
Interesting fact about humans: Did you know that senior citizens sometimes have very arthritic hands? This arthritis can be especially bad on cold mornings making manual tasks difficult. For fear of divine punishment I only exploited this fact for a short while, walked out up $250.
Next stop was the Hilton. First thing I noticed is that there are no lavatories on the casino floor at the Atlantic City Hilton! You have to walk to the ones in the hotel lobby. They are filthy and if you use trips to the lavatory for Wonging purposes this is significant. A somewhat playable 6D game is played there, no mid shoe entry. They beat me bad for a while but I fought back and left a few hours later up $150.
Then back to Midtown and the Sands. The Sands used to have a decent 6D game. Now the pen is poor and the environment unpleasant. Had my first real losing session of the trip there, down about $400. Had a comped dinner and took a rest break.
My final mission was to inspect the two stores I had not yet seen, Harrah's and Trump Marina. Played a shoe at the Trump for a $100 profit and nothing struck me as playable at Harrah's. The Trump Marina and the Borgata use Shuffle Masters. Every other game I noticed in town was hand-shuffled and there was no sign of CSM's at BJ tables anywhere.
My next stop was the most rewarding- the night depository at Bank of America to drop my bankroll. Bank of America is almost everywhere and I opened an account with them just for the purpose of securing my bankroll after a BJ session. Ended up +$1600 after expenses over 3 days, a profitable trip indeed. RPC with a Wong in/out at +2 was used on these games.
General notes: the best games in town for counting appear to be the Borgata and the Hilton. And they're still lousy. There's no heat and a dealer and PC even joked with me about my being a counter but you need more than "no heat" to make a game worthwhile. Pen is variable all over town but I never saw anything better than 1 deck.
Sloppy procedure is everywhere here. Some of the dealers look like they got lost on the way to the homeless shelter and walked into the casino HR office instead. Cards and cheques handed carelessly and I don't think I saw one good riffle in 3 days.
The food in this city is awful. You can't find meat that isn't full of fat and skin, and despite being on the ocean the seafood available is of the cheapest kind. Stick to places like Hooters, Hard Rock Cafe and other national outfits.
Extracurricular activities: For those who like to mix pleasure with business, in the AC casinos you will see a lot of unaccompanied women out for a good time. They are mostly in groups of 2 or 3 and run the gamut of age, size, race, and style. If you're the kind of guy who prefers to take his pleasure a la carte, on the streets you can find an appetizing selection of whores. But be smart, respect your body and your EV, don't.
Lodging: Rt 30 (White Horse Pike) leading into town has a lot of habitable motels in the $30-40 range.
Crowds and timing: Same as LV, crowds start winding down aroun 2 AM until about 4 PM.
Getting around in AC: Most of the casinos are on the Boardwalk. And there quite a ways apart, it's like walking from store to store on the Strip. But the Boardwalk is bicycle-friendly and a bike might be a handy thing to have around to save time when moving around. Parking is $4 in all casino lots and a parking receipt is good for parking at one other casino until the next 6 AM.
This is not a fun place to play and I can think of a dozen other BJ venues I'd rather be at. But still the game is beatable with advanced techniques. These games look like they would be vulnerable to team play. So I shan't come back unless I have something really good planned out.
Great reports, thanks! *NM*
Posted by The Mayor on 28-Dec-2004 10:24:35 (#11472)
question...
Posted by stainless steel rat on 28-Dec-2004 13:16:32 (#11475)
My wife keeps wanting to go back to NYC, and while there visit AC, particularly to see Trump's casino. Is it worth going to AC in general? Or should I talk her into going to NYC for a while, then taking an indirect route back home through a better set of playing conditions???
Just an Observation
Posted by SammyBoy on 28-Dec-2004 14:54:39 (#11476)
From AM's report it sounds like you would be better off finding a better place to play.
Probably not
Posted by Automatic Monkey on 28-Dec-2004 15:02:17 (#11477)
If you like beaches and boardwalks AC is worth the trip in the summertime and you can count some BJ as a sidetrip. But for an individual counter using standard tools it's not worth a dedicated trip. The CT stores are somewhat better due to the LS rule and smaller crowds.
Foxwoods
Posted by Goose on 28-Dec-2004 19:26:59 (#11481)
I haven't ben to AC in years but the crows at Foxwoods are horrendous. Wonging there even during the day mid week is almnost impopssible and they use 8 decks too.
Mohegan is less crowded but will struggle getting a good cut.
Major Announcement!!!
Posted by Titaniumman on 26-Dec-2004 14:46:08 (#11459)
There will be an announcement of interest to the blackjack community on this page tomorrow morning, December 27th at 8AM Pacific Standard Time.
Here's the announcement! *LINK*
Posted by Titaniumman on 27-Dec-2004 10:00:49 (#11463)
Question: How many have the last copy of Blackjack Forum?
Wrong! Nobody has. It is my priviledged honor to announce that Blackjack Forum is back, and, and,
it's free! It's electronic and it's on Arnold Snyder's <u>innovative</u> new site. Wait until you read James Grosjean's article on the Imperial Palace adventure. He even indicates what casino games each prospective juror plays.
There's also a huge amount of other good reading features. I see Radar O'Reilly is back, which is good news for you North East coast readers.
For the adventurous of you, the Fight Club is back, hosted by you-know-who!
So, check it out and register a profile.
Great news *NM*
Posted by suicyco maniac on 27-Dec-2004 19:37:21 (#11467)
Arnold needs a better web service provider
Posted by The Mayor on 01-Jan-2005 13:06:42 (#11517)
His site seems to be down as often as it is up. Hopefully the new site will last a bit longer in his care than the previous one (or the one before that...).
--Mayor
Barfarkel interview with Larry Grossman *LINK*
Posted by Barfarkel on 27-Dec-2004 04:27:31 (#11460)
To listen to the radio interview, use this link:
http://www.cardplayer.com/larry_grossman/
Scroll down to Dec. 21st and click "Play," on the right.
You can drag and drop the progress bar indicator on your Media Player about two-thirds of the way to the right to skip the first two guests, and cue the Barfarkel interview directly. I'm in the last one-third of the show.
Cheers,
Barfarkel
It starts 46:55 into it *NM*
Posted by Garo on 27-Dec-2004 20:45:23 (#11468)
Not worth the wait...
Posted by zengrifter on 28-Dec-2004 12:35:50 (#11474)
...of 45 minutes. His previous (and very first) interview on LA's KLAS radio was quite good, but this one? FOGGITABOUTIT! ZG
Help
Posted by TTC on 27-Dec-2004 08:01:08 (#11462)
Mayor, what is ILLUSTRIOUS 18? Please, type that numbers.
Look to the left...
Posted by Sonny on 27-Dec-2004 10:25:17 (#11464)
> Mayor, what is ILLUSTRIOUS 18? Please, type that numbers.
Which system do you use?
Try looking at the "System Indices" link on the left to see if your system is listed there. The Mayor has the Ill-18 for Hi-Low, Hi-Opt I, Hi-Opt II and UAPC posted.
-Sonny-
Not UAPC *NM*
Posted by suicyco maniac on 27-Dec-2004 19:27:21 (#11466)
OK
Posted by TTC on 27-Dec-2004 22:02:48 (#11469)
I use the Hi-Low (Wong), 6D, DOA, LateSur, Fair Pen, DAS, no Hole Card...European conditions...
Oh, Wong Halves. I never noticed that before. =) *NM*
Posted by Sonny on 29-Dec-2004 11:52:29 (#11493)
Dealing with Tsunamis
Posted by The Mayor on 28-Dec-2004 12:10:23 (#11473)
I was watching the very sad news from Asia and Indonesia about the devastating tsunamis. The catastrophic death toll and the outpouring of grief are unparalleled in modern life. We simply don't have the ability to understand the enormous scope of this disaster, so we look at the experience one small story at a time, and through human eyes we try to piece together meaning.
A close friend of mine has been traveling throughout Asia, Indonesia, and India the last few months. Recently he was scuba diving off of Phuket Island. One sunny morning he went out to breakfast at a little café, and then returned to his hotel room to prepare for the day. Thirty minutes later the café had been inundated. He wrote:
"I'm ok, although the Andaman coast is pretty wrecked. Lots of people dead/hurt/missing. Saw a body yesterday (16ish girl) and lots of hurt people. Missed being in the wrong place by 1/2 hr. Panic in Thai is very strange. Running like hell, and not sure why. Weird."
You can read more about his account at www.davetracker.com
Two days later the region is in shock, still coming to grips with what will be needed to restore even the basics, like food, water and shelter. Please contribute to those agencies that are helping the people of the devastated region recover.
You don't really know how much you can handle until you have experienced the worst that life has to offer.
--Mayor
Does anyone know the difference between...
Posted by zengrifter on 28-Dec-2004 16:58:03 (#11478)
... Tsunamis and Tidal Waves? I thought that they were synonymous but a CNN scientist was saying no? zg
wonder...
Posted by stainless steel rat on 28-Dec-2004 17:04:19 (#11479)
If it is like the "difference" between hurricanes, cyclones, and so forth. Depends on the location rather than the "thing" itself???
tsunamis
Posted by emeprod on 28-Dec-2004 18:00:44 (#11480)
I believe the difference is simply in how they were formed. A "tidal wave", as the name implies, is specifically related to the actual tide of the body of water where it originates, i.e. most people are familiar with the "tide" coming in and out and being affected by the moon, etc. A tsunami is basically a displacement of water that originated due to some specific physical event, i.e. when a glacier separates and a large chunk of it falls in the water, then this large "splash" can cause tsunamis, just like dropping a rock in a pond causes little ripples to disperse from it...a tsunami is simply a very, very large ripple.
maybe, but
Posted by stainless steel rat on 28-Dec-2004 21:06:43 (#11482)
I was watching something on TV months back about "tidal waves". And here they were talking about a large wave caused by a land-mass (or ice-mass) breaking off and falling into the ocean, displacing a large volume of water. They had some modeling going on (I think at the Vicksburg MS waterways experiment station) studying this as it happens more often than you'd think. But note it was the same sort of thing we just saw, just caused by a huge chunk of land falling into the ocean rather than the ocean floor suddenly rising 60 feet or whatever just happened...
SHOULDN't all this be on the NON bj board *NM*
Posted by eyesfor21 on 28-Dec-2004 21:19:41 (#11483)
Yes, but...
Posted by The Mayor on 28-Dec-2004 22:35:07 (#11484)
This is my site so I don't have to follow my own rules 8-) If you start a site, you can break your own rules too!
I want the message about helping the victims of the tsunamis to reach as large an audience as possible. I intend to give $$$ tomorrow to "direct relief international". I hope you will find a charity and donate as well.
--Mayor
Giving to charity is a tough call
Posted by Automatic Monkey on 28-Dec-2004 23:57:59 (#11485)
I'd like to help in any way I can, but I also know the reality of what happens to donations in such circumstances, especially when the fundraising is associated with a prominent disaster. Some fundraisers make casino executives look ethical by comparison.
There are internet resources you can use
Posted by Sohrab on 29-Dec-2004 07:27:02 (#11488)
to check out charities. Some states have attorney general websites. Consumer websites. etc.
You are right some charities put 20% of money to their cause, others 80-90%. Donate to efficient ones.
I agree...
Posted by stainless steel rat on 29-Dec-2004 09:13:38 (#11490)
A couple of years ago, United Way proved that to be beyond true. The "boss" was living a life-style that would make a "whale" (in Vegas) look like a pauper... I don't deal with UW period, any longer. Red Cross seems far better for a starting point. Salvation Army also seems good.
since the political correctness pestilence...
Posted by gehrig on 29-Dec-2004 10:08:25 (#11491)
has infected the united way, they lost me, leastwise for the remainder of this turn on the wheel.
as to domestic charities i'm partial to the salvation army. that because i enjoyed most of 6 months using the red shield house in bombay as a home base.
as to international charities it is medecins sans frontieres. that because i've encountered these folks in truly god forsaken environments at duties most health care professionals wouldn't do on a bet.
Yes the Army has a very good record *NM*
Posted by Automatic Monkey on 29-Dec-2004 10:18:54 (#11492)
Tsunami waves
Posted by dbase on 08-Jan-2005 07:13:46 (#11666)
A Tsunami is an under-water wave. It can travel as fast as
350MPH. Incredible! This wave is caused by an underwater
landslide caused, in this case, by an earthquake.
It is not visible out in the ocean. Ships hardly notice anything.
When it hits shore it usually is no more than 10 to 12 Ft. But it
is deep and powerful.
regards
dbase
Sumatra Tsunami Animation...
Posted by zengrifter on 29-Dec-2004 18:13:52 (#11495)
... may be found on the nonBJ page. zg
My $$$ went locally
Posted by The Mayor on 29-Dec-2004 18:32:30 (#11496)
To "Direct Relief International" which happens to be headquartered in Santa Barbara. Thanks for posting on nonBJ ... I should learn from you!
looking for videos
Posted by eyesfor21 on 30-Dec-2004 19:33:38 (#11504)
perhaps underground not the normal
news coverage..any links would be appreciated..
trying to get one of the guy that apparenlty surfed it too.
to really help, adapt a kid that just lost parents *NM*
Posted by eyesfor21 on 30-Dec-2004 19:56:40 (#11505)
The Hot Shoe DVD
Posted by kms147 on 29-Dec-2004 21:13:59 (#11497)
While reading "You've Got Heat" by Barfarkel I saw mention of a
documentory by David Layton called "The Hot Shoe" and I was wondering
if anyone knows where I can purchase a copy of it in DVD or any other
format?
Right on this site
Posted by suicyco maniac on 30-Dec-2004 00:46:35 (#11498)
Just go to the Home page and click on the store. SM
Newbie from the UK with some questions
Posted by Mowgli on 30-Dec-2004 02:15:42 (#11499)
Hi Guys,
Bit of background first. Im based in the UK and stuck in front of a monitor all day and have only rarely been in a Casino.
I Have lots of time to spare so started playing Hoyles Casino and got hooked on Blackjack. After awhile I learned the basic BJ strategy and decided to learn the hi/lo card counting method and learn from the Gamemasters free Blackjack school. Great stuff.
So I am just starting off when I visit a board that says BJ card counting is dead because the Casinos are now using shuffling machines that are used after every deal. Gloom.
So the question is, is card counting really dead or should I continue? I hate giving up on something once I start.
Thanks in advance and good luck.
Definitely not dead
Posted by Automatic Monkey on 30-Dec-2004 12:18:12 (#11500)
Only a minority of BJ games use continuous shuffle machines (CSM's) and they seem to be going out of style. There are definitely non-CSM games available in London. Although there are stronger systems than High-Low the Gamesmaster course really does contain all you need to beat blackjack.
Don't Give Up!!!
Posted by SammyBoy on 04-Jan-2005 15:34:47 (#11563)
There are still lots of beatable games around and will be for years to come. People have been talking about the end of beatable BJ games for more than 40 years.
Still Learning
Posted by Mowgli on 05-Jan-2005 06:34:17 (#11570)
Am determined to master card counting even if I never use it.
Am using Hoyles Casino game to practise on. I think it is really excellent.
Got most of the BJ variations and does an HiLo count that you can check yourself against.
After thousands of games and just by using money management, BS (sometimes modified) and the true count display am ahead in my virtual world.
Good luck to all other learners and thanks for all the posts on this board.
Still learning but what about ...
Posted by Mowgli on 29-Jan-2005 02:42:18 (#11972)
A brief update. Well I have got my BS cracked but I still have to get my speed up on my count.
I have gone with an unbalanced count using KO. Being miles from anywhere, there is no way I could go with trying to estimate the number of decks to get a true count and it seems much much easier to keep in your mind with distractions going on.
Am looking to buy also Casino Verite as I am very impressed with the demo download and its training aids.
Bit concerned about articles such as http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1471&ncid=1471&e=1&u=/ibd/20050128/bs_ibd_ibd/2005127tech which makes me thing I am jumping onboard a train that is about to reach the end of the rails but it is personal now and I intend to become as good as I can possibly get.
With an eye to the future I would like to join a uk based team.
Thanks for the board.
Update on "The Blackjack Zone" -- they've left New Jersey
Posted by The Mayor on 30-Dec-2004 18:47:04 (#11501)
Exciting news...
I have in front of me four copies of "The Blackjack Zone", hot off the presses. They passed the visual inspection, so the order to ship was made. The printer put them into a truck and the truck left New Jersey for California this morning. I was told "5-7 working days" for the shipment to arrive. Of course, snow storms could delay arrival a day or two, but at the outside my publisher will have them in hand to fulfill orders by January 10, and at best by January 5 (the original date I was promised).
For those who have asked for more information about the contents of the book, I put up an image of the Table of Contents...
http://www.theblackjackzone.com/BJZoneTOC.jpg
This is an exciting time, thank you all for your support. I'll let you know when the books arrive.
--Mayor
Congrats!
Posted by hinoon on 30-Dec-2004 19:18:13 (#11502)
What an exciting thing to start the New Year with! Bravo on getting it off the presses and (soon) into the homes of the eagerly awaiting masses.
great
Posted by eyesfor21 on 30-Dec-2004 19:31:40 (#11503)
Mayor,
how about some tv news appearances to mention the book
and all the casino paranoia for merely raising ones bet.
Mind if I...
Posted by Garo on 30-Dec-2004 19:59:36 (#11506)
Mind if I grab one off the truck as it passes me here in Ohio?
I know how you must feel
Posted by Barfarkel on 30-Dec-2004 21:28:22 (#11509)
Congrats, Mayor. I'm sure it'll be a big success!
Cheers,
Barfarkel
"snow storm"....
Posted by gehrig on 31-Dec-2004 14:01:07 (#11510)
spent the last day and a half shoveling the 4' out of the long driveway. now the problem is that the county grader w/papa bear snow blower hasn't shown up since about 2 feet ago. must be the overtime/holiday pay issue. or could be those wimps are hunkering down in the equipment sheds just because of the "extreme avalanche warning".
can't get no table time stuck in the snow.
How do we get an autographed copy? *NM*
Posted by SammyBoy on 04-Jan-2005 14:48:39 (#11562)
All are autographed
Posted by The Mayor on 04-Jan-2005 18:44:53 (#11566)
Right now, I am autographing and numbering all of them sold through this site. But after a month or so, I might decide not to do so.
Several new casino and BJ posts...
Posted by zengrifter on 30-Dec-2004 20:04:08 (#11507)
...are at the nonBJ board. zg
this is refreshing news indeed.
Posted by gehrig on 31-Dec-2004 16:54:26 (#11512)
that page seems to have been reduced to google search results or leftist agenda, political rhetoric. i already have a few search engines on board. and if i wanted to enjoy anti-us/leftist propaganda, i'd find a way to receive am, "hate" [hate the truth] radio.
the unwashed might erroneously think that "non-bj" as attached to a "card counter" website might relate to casino games other than 21.
this is NOT a topic for the...
Posted by zengrifter on 31-Dec-2004 18:59:29 (#11513)
... main board. However, readers of the main board should know that the CC.com nonBJ board offers one of the most fascinating reading rooms on the Web. zg
Yes, gents...
Posted by The Mayor on 31-Dec-2004 20:05:33 (#11514)
Please keep all discussions of political agenda to the appropriate parts of this site. But please remember, no matter what we believe or who we are, there is a middle ground where our common humainty is what holds us together.
KO wonging???
Posted by creatureman on 31-Dec-2004 14:11:00 (#11511)
Ko users What do you guys reccomend for wonging into a 6d, 75pen, h-17,doa,das game. I use an Irc of -20, like the book. I know that key count is a little cheesy toward the end of the shoe and under estimates at the start. This being the case would you wong in at the key count or wait till pivot when you know you have a No SH*t advanatge Thanks
Re: KO Wonging
Posted by CanKen on 02-Jan-2005 19:06:03 (#11530)
Since no one else has responded yet, I will offer my approach.
"Wonging out" is covered in the KO book, but I don't think "Wonging In" is.
I would note the number of decks already played, and for 6 decks, enter at the following counts, which are about equivalent to TC's > 1.5:
After 1 deck : IRC+12
After 2 decks: IRC+15
After 3 decks: IRC+17 (which is KC+1)
Some players might prefer to wait for a slightly higher count.
If I play off the top of the shoe, I use these same counts to raise my bet after one or two decks, rather than waiting for the KC, which I believe is based on average for three decks.
Hope this helps. CK
What Is KC KEn? Thanks for responding ? *NM*
Posted by creatureman on 03-Jan-2005 12:35:15 (#11546)
KC=Key Count *NM*
Posted by CanKen on 03-Jan-2005 18:00:14 (#11550)
ohH duh!! thanks, DO you TKO at all???? *NM*
Posted by creatureman on 03-Jan-2005 18:53:50 (#11551)
Re:TKO
Posted by CanKen on 05-Jan-2005 18:42:24 (#11593)
No, I'm not familiar with TKO. I've looked for info on it but haven't found anything yet.
In any case, if it involves estimating and dividing by decks remaining, I would probably go to Hi-Lo instead.
What I use is pretty much KO Full,(see KO Appendix IV), with a few more indices for 6 and 8 deck games. As mentioned in a post above, I also use entry and exit points that depend on number of decks already played. It's easy to eyeball that in the discard rack.
Of course, the drawback in all this is that you need to remember different indices for different numbers of decks - no problem if you always play the same game.
I would be interested in reading about TKO if anyone can direct me to a source.
Share your gaming memory from 2004 ...
Posted by The Mayor on 01-Jan-2005 13:01:56 (#11516)
May you all have your best year yet, at the tables and in life.
How about sharing your memories from 2004?
One of my brightest memories from 2004 is having the entire pit scramble to the blackjack table where I was playing with a friend to try and figure out what we were doing. It's 5 a.m. and we've just bet table max on a side bet on every square on the table. The dealer said "I know you're doing something here and I don't like it!" Sweet.
Also fun was being backed off from blackjack while I was playing video poker: "Sir you are welcome to play any game except blackjack." "But I'm not playing blackjack." "I know that sir, I just want to let you know that you can't play blackjack here."
And, to all those who shared the good times, cheers!!! Here's to another fun year!!!
--Mayor
mine...
Posted by stainless steel rat on 01-Jan-2005 13:46:05 (#11518)
My favorite was a trip to the MS coast back in the Summer. Son and I had gone to Mobile Alabama to pick up a used lower-unit housing for my merc outboard, and I was prepared to pay up to about $2000 for the part. Since this was a "junk yard (junk yard for outboard motors only) I took cash. I expected to have to disassemble a bunch of lower units to find one in the condition I wanted, but luckily the first one I pulled the bearing carrier out of looked brand new. It is now 10am. Said to son, lets drive over to Biloxi and try some blackjack. OK.
Found a $25 2D game with one player. Watched him for a bit and noticed him spreading $100 to $1200. No attention. sounds good to me. So I sit down and suffer through 3-4 shuffles where the TC never even reached zero (yes it started at zero I guess, but it dropped in a hurry.) But a funny thing happened after about 30-40 minutes of playing. I had hardly lost a hand and my original $500 buy-in had tripled. I was spreading $25 to $100 to start with, since I only had about $1200 left from the junk yard, and when I looked down, I had way over $1500 in chips never having bet over $25 since the count had never went beyond 0.
With the streak going, and the count finally climbing, I was spreading $25 to $300 with no heat, and the winning continued. Doubles. Splits. Even horrible doubles (11 vs 6, get an A, dealer turns over a 5 (count high remember), draws another 4-5 and then a 10 to bust).
My son was playing at a $5 6d shoe game and would stop by from time to time to take a break, and I'd give him 2-3 purples I had pocketed each time.
When I left, I had just over $10,000, which means a profit of just over $9500 for three hours.
Left and drove 5 hours to get back home. When I walked in, wife said "have any money left over?" I started handing her $100's. As I reached #20, she looked puzzled as that is where I had started after she had gone by the bank for me the day before to get the original $2000 in cash. As I passed #50, she really looked puzzled. As I gave her #100 it hit her, "you bastard, you went to Biloxi, didn't you?, If you'd told me you were going over there I would have gone."
A sheepish "I wasn't planning to do that initially, but we had found the part in 45 minutes, so one thing led to another" barely seemed to suffice. :)
Those are the fun trips. That was my biggest single-session win ever. But such trips are certainly nice to break up all those negative-variance runs that drive you nuts...
By the way, for whatever reason, there was zero heat. Zero attention. No "taps". Could not believe it... Guy spreading $100-$1200 was not a counter and eventually lost a _bunch_ of money, maybe that is why there was no heat...
Playing next to my friends...
Posted by learning to count on 01-Jan-2005 18:43:07 (#11519)
the best times I can recall were playing with the Mayor, The Bear, Panther Counter, Ploppy Jimmy, Chicago Slim. We ran the strip and downtown like a pack of hungry excited wolves. During the run we saw and played with many other celebrities including El Lobo, J.J., Stanford Wong, DD, Math Prof, and the many other pro teams out there. The best times were the wins, the free meals and cramming all those team members in the free room we scammed in a down town slum casino/hotel after a small win. The highs were when we were able to spot lucrative games from afarand burn them out! The "Wong ins" and "Wong outs" were exciting when you tripled your buyin. Yeah I saw the Mayors back off from BJ while on the Poker Machine. I saw another Mayor backoff where we were able to turn the pit's attention to confusion and still keep a bet alive on the table and win BIG! Yeah I have enough memories to fill a book. The one that is dear to me is just playing with my AP brother's. Happy New Year Eliot, AL, J. Panther, PJ, and Slim. We will play again and we will take the casino's money. You can bet on that!
Not really my expirence...
Posted by Garo on 01-Jan-2005 20:15:06 (#11521)
I had just taught my roomate how to play blackjack and we went to the weekly tournament at Chumash... The little mexican finished third... just hours after he learned how to play.
BJ with my Son......
Posted by phantom007 on 02-Jan-2005 01:14:30 (#11528)
Blackjack, you sick perverts!
Rehash of past post, but basically, in the state of MN, one can gamble in Casinos at age 18, provided said store does not serve alcohol. Planned our yearly "northern" fishing trip to be in close proximitry to one of said stores.
Since he did not read ANY of the BJ Books that I had loaned to him almost a year before, I had to give my 19 y.o. a crashcourse during the 40 minute drive to the casino. The plan went like this:
---#1...He would always sit to my Right.
---#2...We would announce that he was a beginner, and I was helping him play.
---#3...He would allow me to bet First, and always bet 1/2 of my bet. Thus, creating an effective 6:1 spread for me and 3:1 for him. Likewise, except for OBVIOUS Hands, i.e., BJ, 10-10, etc., he would ask for my advice, and FOLLOW SAME, before play of said hand.
---#4...If I left the table for bathroom or whatever, He must bet min. and "wing-it". He should NOT leave the table when I had anything other than min. bet out.
The plan worked pretty well. Won all three sessions played, both net and individually, and on the last session "KICKED A##".
Walking to the parking lot after the final session, Son says to me "Those guys behind the Dealer were talking and said that they were going to 'Cut us off'. But then we got up and left anyhow. What does that mean?".
GRIN!
Means your Daddy can CC alot better than he can catch fish!
Overall, finished 2004 in the "5-Digit" +EV-zone for BJ, albeit, one integer less thanks to my LEARNING CURVE for Texas FOLD-EM...typo. is intentional...this is what I need to learn.
phantom007.
Not Directly Blackjack Related - Treasure Those Times
Posted by MrPill on 04-Jan-2005 11:48:10 (#11557)
"Since he did not read ANY of the BJ Books that I had loaned to him almost a year before, I had to give my 19 y.o. a crashcourse during the 40 minute drive to the casino."
Phantom,
Don't take any of those moments for granted. For me, 2004 was a good year in BlackJack but other events changed some of my perspectives.
My son at age 14 was a very proficient basic strategy player and had the concept of card counting down. He was a very logical thinker and I truely enjoyed spending time with him and working on projects. I looked forward to a time like yours and "attacking" the felt with him. He passed away suddenly 2 months ago at the age of 15.
I'm not completly sure how this has changed me yet, but I know it has made me a stronger person.
Also, when my friend Rob McGarvey passed away earlier last year, it too gave me a new perspective on some things.
Everyone needs to take some time out each day to reflect on their world and those around them.
Enjoy life and see the good in things.
Pill
May you be comforted, Mr. Pill *NM*
Posted by Sohrab on 04-Jan-2005 12:37:50 (#11558)
Mr. Pill
Posted by SammyBoy on 04-Jan-2005 14:35:33 (#11560)
Thanks for sharing that with us. I think we all take for granted the people in our lives and we need to be reminded that they may not always be around and that we should make the most of our time together.
Family
Posted by Sun Runner on 04-Jan-2005 14:38:33 (#11561)
MrPill -
As I was reading your post my heart was breaking and racing ahead to what I hoped I would not find. Sadly, it ended as I thought.
My father passed away about a year ago. Our big connection was golf. We loved to play and together. He had to quit about three years ago; and I knew the end was near. Even as a grown man, this holiday season, it was almost unbearable.
(Here is a tip .. you are still in shock a bit .. next holiday season will not be a good one .. just want you to be ready .. but it will pass my friend.)
This past week I was able to visit and play some cards with my 25 year old son. He plays home game poker (low limit, but hey, I had to clean him and his friends out none the less, no!?) but one night we road tripped through four casinos till about three in the morning. He is not even a BS player but just wanted to go to the casino and screw off a little. All we could find were CSMs at the nickle tables so I just sat, watched him play, and offered advice. He had a blast hanging out and breaking even. I had a blast just being there. I know you understand.
If something were to happen to him, I know how it would devastate me; however, even so, I'm sure I do not feel your pain. I only pray that God will soon replace that hole in your heart with the many wonderful memories of your son that I know you carry with you.
God bless you, MrPill.
Condolences Mr Pill
Posted by Automatic Monkey on 04-Jan-2005 16:16:59 (#11565)
It sure does put things in perspective. Cussing about a losing steak, we'd bless a losing streak if we could make up the variance someplace else.
my heartfelt sympathy to you and your family *NM*
Posted by The Mayor on 05-Jan-2005 09:45:55 (#11571)
It's all a blur
Posted by Automatic Monkey on 01-Jan-2005 21:04:14 (#11523)
2004 was my first full year of counting, having started in 2003. I've used 5 different counts and played all over the US, and despite my compaining about bad flux I'm up about $15K for the year. The most important thing I've learned is to deal with losing, or rather, the perception of losing. Compulsive gamblers only remember winning, and since we are not that, losing is a lot more memorable. But thinking of life, as well as blackjack, as just "one big session" puts small and temporary failures in both in perspective. We've all heard the saying "It's not whether you win or lose, but how you play the game", and we've all thought it was a bunch of crap after losing a job, driving home alone from a singles' bar, or any other unpleasant disappointment. But blackjack teaches that as long as you are playing a positive EV game, in the long run you're a winner, and there's nothing anyone or anything can do to change that.
Rob McGarvey passing away was memorable. He used to shoot me off an e-mail after a losing experience explaining how to play a blackjack situation for maximum advantage. (And of course, an invite to replenish my bankroll with a nice online bonus offer!) I could almost hear his brogue coming through in the written word, and I didn't have a worry in the world after reading it.
Most memorable sitting: probably at the Monte Carlo. They have a very playable shoe game there. The dealer was nice and giving me much better than average pen for the house so I wasn't Wonging out except for the bathroom-Wong towards the end of a shoe. She was very impressed with my play. We were just talking and enjoying ourselves, spreading $5-$200 and my chip pile was building and building. When ploppies sat down she was pointing them to me for basic strategy advice and I was enjoying giving the lessons. On a very low count I drew a 16 vs. 2, won the hand. She said "I don't know why you did that." I cheerfully answered "You don't want to know" and she just smiled. When it was time to leave, I waited for her to come back from her break so I could give her a red and thank her for her company, before walking out up $900. Sessions where I have won much more were never so pleasant.
Memories
Posted by revereman on 01-Jan-2005 21:30:06 (#11524)
Having the whole BJ pit in Tramp Marina cutting off half the decks as I lurked afterbeing half-shoed. $8100 win in the month of Dec.
Giving advice
Posted by ZOD on 02-Jan-2005 19:58:19 (#11533)
My favorite moment was when I reluctantly gave a little elderly gentleman some splitting and doubling advice. He won $4000 on the hand and got so excited he started hollering and pumping his fists in the air. Then, without warning, he got off his stool and jumped onto my back! I stood up an spun him around while he hi-fived everyone and told them that I was "the man." I ran into him the next day and without a word he gave me a big hug.
I had a rotten year at the tables, but it's still nice to see people winning and having a good time.
Best...
ZOD
Some of mine
Posted by suicyco maniac on 02-Jan-2005 20:59:58 (#11535)
1,200 hours of play and most of it is a blur but here goes...being further ahead Jan 18th then I am now...dropping down to ony 864 ahead for the year in Aug...actually coming out ahead for the year after some extreme downswings...Playing on a table with a celebrity and a big crowd (name and place witheld for obvious reasons) and actually getting more attention then s/he from the audience...getting paid $500 extra on a BJ (on more then one occasion)...getting over 1,000 extra from the cage (also more then once)...SN
One more..
Posted by suicyco maniac on 02-Jan-2005 21:02:13 (#11536)
Getting a cheesy mailing from a casino that makes noise when you open it...reminded me of Let it ride.. SM
2004 memory
Posted by Gatherer on 03-Jan-2005 12:37:59 (#11547)
My memory from 2004:
Finding out what card counting is and starting to practice. I haven't hit a casino yet because I'm still learning and building a bankroll.
(but lurking and reading on this site has answered a bunch of questions)
Memories
Posted by SammyBoy on 04-Jan-2005 09:49:29 (#11556)
I remember one early Sunday morning where I was taking a light ass kicking and my cell phone started ringing. I was a little agitated because nothing was going right and the last thing I wanted was to have to talk on the phone, but I decided to answer it in case it was my wife. Sure enough it was her with great news, Saddam Hussein had been captured. At that point I didn't care how many units I lost it was going to be a great day! Shortly after getting the news my fortunes turned around and I started doing the ass kicking.
I also remember drawing an 8 card 21 to beat the dealers 6 card 20 in a double deck game.
I had a dealer over pay me while getting change to start my session.
Another dealer flashed his hole card to me revealing a 20. I received a 3 on my hard 17 and pushed.
I saw another dealer flip both cards by mistake allowing me to play a double exposure game.
Outlook for 2005
Posted by dbase on 13-Jan-2005 02:39:00 (#11746)
Any plans for 2005?
regards
dbase
Biggest Hand of the Year
Posted by Dog Hand on 13-Jan-2005 21:46:47 (#11764)
I was playing a DD game, and had two $150 bets out. Against the dealer's six, my first hand was pat. The second was a pair of nines. I split, received a deuce on the first and doubled. The second drew yet another nine, so I split again and ended up with two stiffs. Thus, I had a total of $750 on the table. The dealer flipped a nine, then drew a lovely eight of clubs to bust.
Sweet!
Dog Hand
thats a good q for the poll
Posted by eyesfor21 on 13-Jan-2005 23:23:48 (#11767)
perhap one month=what is the largest hand you have
played before spit/db etc.
my favorite
Posted by stainless steel rat on 14-Jan-2005 08:20:17 (#11768)
goes something like this, although the cards are probably not exactly in the correct order.
Earlier this year my wife, brother and his wife were in Vegas. We were at Caesar's to see the Celine Dione show and got there a bit early (we were staying in the MGM). My brother and his wife wanted to hit the slots. My wife was going that way but walked with me thru the BJ pit where I was going to play. Only open table was a $100 min DD game. Told my wife "well, looks like no BJ games for me, tables are full." She said "that table has open spots" jokingly. I promptly sat down. My wife at my right side holding on to my right bicep. Bought in for $1000, which was really what I would call my "daily max bankroll" or all the money I could lose in one day and still play the rest of the week. Plopped down one black. Got 2 sevens, dealer had a 6 up. Split the 7's. Another black chip down. Noticed a bit of a constriction on my right arm. :) First 7 got a 4. Doubled, another black down, and got a 10. 21. OK so far. Next 7 gets another 7. split. Another black. Constriction on right arm gets tighter. Get a 2 on second 7. Double and get another 2. Second hand total=11, not good.
Summary so far. $200 on a 21, $200 on a 11, one more seven left. Got another 7 and split to the 4th hand. 3rd hand gets a 4. Double and get a 7 for total of 18. $700 on table, circulation nearly gone in right arm. On to final hand which can't be split again. Got a third 4 for 11, double for the 4th time, got an A for the trouble.
Four hands, $200 per hand. totals of 21, 11, 18 and 12. Dealer has 6 up. Flips hole card, its a 5. Circulation totally gone in right arm, excruciating pain as if there was a stainless steel band clamped around it. Asked wife "please let go or my arm is going to fall off..." First card to dealer is an A. Second is a 10. Wife shouts "color up, we have a show to see (even though it was an hour+ away).
Could have nearly wiped me out for the day, instead nearly doubled my daily bankroll in one hand. :)
My wife started my original nickname "gorilla player" at that point because as we walked away, she said "you play like a gorilla, no regard to money." I said "there's no other way to play the game and win." :)
That's one of only two times I have ever sat at a black-chip only table. Not all sessions of 1 hand go quite that well...
PODIUM PODIUM PODIUM
Posted by suicyco maniac on 01-Jan-2005 19:29:42 (#11520)
eagerly awaiting Januarys podium..SM
So sorry, but...
Posted by The Mayor on 01-Jan-2005 21:41:54 (#11525)
I am going to take a break from the Podiums ... not sure when they will return. I do want to continue to write, but it may be appearing in different venues than here (e.g. I will have an article in each of the next two month's BJInsider that Henry Tamburin publishes).
My fingers can only hit so many keys before my brain tires out and no more words happen.
--Mayor
Online BJ
Posted by Hurricane on 01-Jan-2005 20:35:30 (#11522)
Pardon my ignorance, as I am fairly new but I had a simple question(s) I wanted to toss out to the group:
Dpes anybody play BJ in a online casino? Whhich one's can you trust to be fair? Can counting work online?
Thanks for the wisdom that is sure to come!
Some answers...
Posted by The Mayor on 01-Jan-2005 21:50:42 (#11526)
>Pardon my ignorance, as I am fairly new but I had a simple question(s) I wanted to toss out to the group:
Welcome!
>Dpes anybody play BJ in a online casino?
I used to play quite a bit, and many others who visit here play currently.
>Whhich one's can you trust to be fair?
There are two levels here. Do you trust the software? Do you trust the owners of the site to pay you once you've won? As for the software, pretty much any site that is "Microgaming" is safe enough, you can be sure you are not going to be cheated. As for the other part, getting paid, I never had any problems from the bigger casinos. Just start with those, and you'll get used to it. There are MANY sites that recommend casinos and have ratings for them, you can use google for that. But, casinos like English Harbour, Casino-on-net, etc., have been around forever and are very good to start with.
>Can counting work online?
No. Most people who make money off of online casinos do so by "bonus hustling" which means playing perfect basic strategy for just long enough to cash out the bonus you get by getting a new account. According to one friend who works at it about 8 hours a day, the final pay amounts to about $50/hour.
>Thanks for the wisdom that is sure to come!
Hmm... just have a go. We used to have an expert here who would have told you more than you wanted, but very sadly, he has passed on. Hopefully a few of those who are current can give you a tip or two. My info is about 18 months old (last time I "bonus hustled").
--Mayor
More Answers.......
Posted by phantom007 on 02-Jan-2005 00:27:07 (#11527)
The main problem with online BJ, excluding honesty and getting paid, is that all current games to my knowledge are effectively CSM's (Continuous Shuffle Machines), so that CC'ing is worthless. In a live game, if you are dealt 2 "little cards" the first hand of a deck/shoe, they cannot reappear until the shuffle...not so on-line, they "shuffle" after every round.
Now with this said, I did read a year or so back a piece that suggested that there was a SMALL +EV to playing certain sites that offered SD, though this was minimal...like +0.01% or something close. By memory, the author was Shackleford and the sites had Microgaming software, but don't hold me to this.
Anyhow, one had to play PERFECT B.S. and make certain "composition" play changes...you were not really counting cards, but RATHER the # of cards. For example, in SD, we would usually hit a 16 vs. Dealer 10-up...NOT SO if your 16 was composed of "3-or-more" cards.
Personally, I have only played on-line BJ once, and at least 8 years ago (back when one could still use a Credit Card to buy-in). Then, at whatever site I was on, I did think it "wierd" that one could only bet at 3 levels, which were $1, $5, and $25 per hand. Bought in for something like $20, and at the $1 level, had doubled my money over an hour! THIS IS EASY! So, I bought in for $300., moved up to the $25 level, and was watching TV 15 minutes later.
Was I cheated? Probably not. Since, have had MANY Bigger swings in Real Casinos. Just thought it wierd, that when playing for "chump change" I won, and for "big $", I could only get 16 and the Dealer only 21.
I have recently "branched out" into online Poker. Have always gotten paid, though this is with a well-known store. Still curious though, why can they take $$$ OUT of my bank account in 3-5 business SECONDS, but when I cash-in, it takes 3-5 business DAYS!
If I can find info. alluded to above re: On-line SD, I will repost here in a few days. Otherwise, please share your experience if you try on-line BJ.
phantom007.
Thanks...
Posted by Hurricane on 02-Jan-2005 19:51:21 (#11532)
for all of wisdom! I will keep y'all posted on my experience.
$64,000 website
Posted by Hurricane on 02-Jan-2005 22:33:42 (#11537)
For online play, is it relatively safe to set up shop at any of the links listed at?:
http://webhome.idirect.com/~blakjack/64000.htm
...I found this link in another post on this wonderful site, so I'm hoping most of the links there are trustworthy.
I believe the site is attributed to another fellow (Rob McGarvey) who has recently passed away. Sounds like he was a wonderful pal and intelligent player, my condolences to all whom he called a friend.
The late Mr. McGarvey
Posted by Bubb Rubb on 03-Jan-2005 10:39:17 (#11542)
I've never had a problem following Rob McGarvey's advice. I think you'd be safe with any that he recommended, however I'd first check www.casinomeister.com for any updated information on them.
Info. for Hurricane and any other interested Parties....
Posted by phantom007 on 03-Jan-2005 21:15:49 (#11553)
Go to www.WizardofOdds.com, click on "Blackjack", scroll down to the bottom, then click of "APPENDIX 3a". Pretty much gives the info. that I alluded to in above post. Still does not seem like the one I originally read, but is all I can find right now.
Good Cards!
ph007.
Thanks
Posted by Hurricane on 12-Jan-2005 20:38:54 (#11738)
Thanks to everyone for the advice...
So far I've had two online BJ excursions and am averaging a bit over $40/hr. I doubt it will continue this well, but I am happy so far!
$64,000 = A great start
Posted by Sonny on 03-Jan-2005 10:46:31 (#11543)
I have played most of the links on Rob's website (about 2 years ago) and they have all been reliable. Just make sure that you READ THE TERMS & CONDITIONS at each website before you make your deposit. Different casinos will have different requirements and some will have "sticky" bonuses that you cannot withdraw.
-Sonny-
Backoffs
Posted by taj2001 on 02-Jan-2005 15:00:05 (#11529)
Long time reader but first time poster. I'm a HiOpt II user and have been backed-off a few times. Since I only play a few times a year and then only recreationally, I haven't been back to the casinos since the back-offs. But I got to wondering what others do when they've gotten the word. Go back a day later? Month? Never?
you can return
Posted by victoria on 02-Jan-2005 23:08:18 (#11538)
Back offs and barrings are different things, but be aware that certain places can get very nasty when they realize they backed you off before. I would wait a few months, return on a different shift and make my visit a short one.
One other thing of importance perhaps. You say you do not play often but have been backed off a few times. Perhaps it is where you play. The other thing that hits my mind is you probably have worked on your system and indices with loads of practice between casino visits. One thing that is quite difficult to work on outside the casino is your act. You might be too easy to identify.
after a while
Posted by suicyco maniac on 02-Jan-2005 23:56:46 (#11539)
go back in and after scoping out the situation play on a carnival game for a little bit and see if anyone notices you before playing serious. SM
Methods for the New Kid on the Block
Posted by Hurricane on 02-Jan-2005 20:10:31 (#11534)
Hi all,
I am relatively new to counting and have read a few books, surfed the net (obviously), etc and wanted to get everyone's expert opinion. I have got basic strategy down cold and have been practicing KO as it seemed a good entry into counting.
...but now that I stop and think about it, is a new counter better off starting with a simpler method like KO Rookie then moving to the KO Prefered and finally the full KO strategy or using a more complex system from the beginning?
My question really revolves around the fact that once I master KO strategy and want to move onto something more complex, will it be more difficult to switch methods in the future (now I would have 2 different/competing methods in my head), or better to have learned the more complex method from the beginning?
As always, thanks in advance for the advice!
Wouldn't recommend KO- try High-Low
Posted by Automatic Monkey on 02-Jan-2005 23:59:13 (#11540)
KO is an unbalanced count. Unbalanced counts have some advantages especially in SD and DD games where the errors associated with deck estimation and division can easily exceed the errors caused by an unbalanced count, but if you are going to be playing in those kinds of games you might want to try a stronger count anyway. Pitch games are heavily protected and often have high limits and have the added challenge of counting a face-down game so they're not necessarily the best thing for a beginner.
Assuming you're starting with a 6D or 8D shoe, probably High-Low is the best place to start. High-Low counts the 2,3,4,5,6 as +1 and the 10's and A's as -1. Now here's a trick with High-Low: once you have mastered it, learned how to get your spread down perfectly and all the playing indexes you want to learn, you can start counting the 7's as +0.5 and the 9's as -0.5. Or you can just count the red 7's as +1 and the red 9's as -1. The beauty of that is that you can keep using the spread and playing indexes you learned with regular High-Low and they will be close enough, and you will have made a significant improvement to your game.
I think he's fine to learn KO...
Posted by zengrifter on 05-Jan-2005 21:05:31 (#11601)
...and never look back. zg
Another KO supporter
Posted by JeffS on 06-Jan-2005 12:23:37 (#11610)
I agree with zg.
I've been a BS player for most of my life and only recently
decided that I wanted to learn about counting. I started doing hi-lo
but didn't feel confident in my mental math for the tc conversion, so
I tried KO. I like it. It's easy.
I actually think playing DD pitch this is the easiest count since there
is no conversion. pitch games don't move overly fast unless you're heads up, and since there is no conversion it's a snap to keep up with time to spare.
just my 2 cents.
-Jeff
My Two Cents
Posted by Radar on 07-Jan-2005 08:55:37 (#11622)
"Pitch games are heavily protected and often have high limits and have the added challenge of counting a face-down game so they're not necessarily the best thing for a beginner."
Well, from my perspective. I started AP in January 2004 and have played only pitch games with KO the whole time. Call it positive flux, luck, skill, good act...whatever, but at the nickel level I have finished my first year winning $5G and never gotten tossed.
KO is an EXCELLENT count and ranks as well, or better than Hi-Lo. Since it is a count that doesn't use TC conversion, it makes it superior, in my opinion. Afterall, the time I don't have to sit and glance at the discard tray and figure TC can be spent sizing up other important factors.
As for looking at "superior" systems down the road, I have looked at a number and thought about maybe moving on, only to stop and ask myself "why"? I am winning with this one, it is easier to use, I have less fatigue playing than I probably would switching, so it makes no sense to even change.
KO is a GOOD count for me, that's all I can say. Other players with more experience than I have written good things about it, as well.
My 2 cents.
Radar
Thanks
Posted by Hurricane on 12-Jan-2005 20:36:07 (#11737)
Thanks to everyone for the advice!
End of Year Results
Posted by SammyBoy on 03-Jan-2005 10:35:23 (#11541)
After a disappointing 2003 (-122 units) I'm pleased to report a positive 2004.
Units Won: 356
Hours Played: 176.5
Also off to a good start in 05 +78.5 units in 4 hours of play. I hope everyone else had a good year.
Sammy
Congrats! *NM*
Posted by phantom007 on 03-Jan-2005 21:20:12 (#11554)
2004 results
Posted by ZOD on 04-Jan-2005 07:03:47 (#11555)
Another has come and gone. This year was ugly at the tables:
Total hours played: 405
Total units won/lost: -288
Ave: -.71 units/hour
My biggest session win was 114 units in about 90 minutes. My biggest loss was a disastrous combined loss of 283 units in back-to-back sessions. Some days you're the windshield; some days you're the bug.
Even with the blackjack heartache, there were a couple of positives. I did well in November and December, getting back almost 200 units; that did wonders for my mood. Also, investments from my accumulated bankroll did very well. Money-wise for the year, my bankroll actually increased.
Got to take your smiles where you can.
Happy New Year everyone...
ZOD
BR investment
Posted by Garo on 04-Jan-2005 12:59:09 (#11559)
Your post brings up a good question, what should I do with my bankroll while I'm not playing? I was thinking about keeping 50% in cash available to play anytime and maybe putting the other half in a bond fund. What do you do with your BR?
Garo
It's a significant issue
Posted by Automatic Monkey on 04-Jan-2005 16:14:55 (#11564)
I wrote a post aout this a while back: keeping your bankroll in cash or in something like a savings account costs you a lot of money. It will eat up the profit from several trips per year.
My kick is preferred stocks, they work very much like bonds but they're traded on the public exchanges so there's $9.95 commission and online trading, all that good stuff. And with an online brokerage you can transfer money in and out of your bank account that you use for playing purposes. Being I'm well-employed and a new bankroll is only a Friday away I do all my cash handling in terms of trip ruin now, settling for 2% ROR no matter where I am or what I'm doing.
Bankroll in waiting
Posted by ZOD on 04-Jan-2005 19:31:23 (#11567)
I keep about a third of my bankroll in cash. I like the idea of ultra-liquidity and this gives me enough to pretty much do anything I want on the spur of the moment. As far as the other two thirds, I keep 75% in relatively safe growth oriented mutual funds and 25% as my "speculative" cash. It's the latter that was particularily successful this year. I'll be the first to admit that it wasn't through genius on my part, but rather some of that stock market "ploppy luck."
And since I know I can't count on that again, I really hope that the tables are slightly kinder for 2005. Trust the math...
ZOD
match 20
Posted by viking on 03-Jan-2005 12:14:55 (#11545)
Been out of blackjack for 3 years. saw an interestin side bet game i think called match 20. side bet payouts: any 20 4-1 suited 20 9-1 paired 20 15-1
QhQh with dealer bj pays 1000-1. how good of a game is this for a counter? looking for more info on this game...
tx Viking
Does A9 count?
Posted by Automatic Monkey on 03-Jan-2005 14:12:41 (#11548)
I've been trying to analyze this game but the website isn't quite clear on whether a soft 20 also qualifies.
A9
Posted by viking on 03-Jan-2005 19:32:17 (#11552)
yes A9 counts
Lucky Ladies side bet...
Posted by The Mayor on 03-Jan-2005 14:18:08 (#11549)
Yes this can be beaten. My suggestion: join "Green Chip" at bj21 and read the article posted in the archives there by "Panama Rick". He'll tell you everything you need to know to beat this side bet. Well worth it.
--Mayor
First Counting Experience Hi-Opt I
Posted by Counting Baby on 04-Jan-2005 21:36:46 (#11568)
I recently studied a alot and mostly learned the Hi-Opt I count (no ace side count) from World's Greatest Blackjack Book. I took a trip to the new Fallsview Casino at Niagara Falls. After 3 hours I walked out a winner, $65 up. I had never walked out a winner before from a casino. What a great feeling. I know I didn't play enough to really beat the probability. Also, it was a 6 deck game. So I'm sure there was a fair amount of luck involved. But now I've seen that you guys on here shy away from Hi-Opt I. I read that maybe it's outdated? I will play in AC about 15+ days a year and Vegas about 7-8 days per year. Is there a better level 1 even count system I should be learning?
Ace side count
Posted by suicyco maniac on 05-Jan-2005 00:47:13 (#11569)
If you're not going to side count aces you are WAY better off to learn another count. SM
Hi Opt I
Posted by Kennilworth Kid on 05-Jan-2005 11:00:13 (#11572)
Congrads on your win.
Hi Opt I needs Ace adjustment side count to rival Hi-Lo, KO, or Red 7 for betting advantage, and even then it falls short. Betting advantage, particularly for shoe games, is more important than playing advantage. Simulations done by D Schlessinger in Blackjack Attack show Hi Opt I is a little worse than the others above in shoe games, even with side counts.
Schlessinger's opinion is that side counting is a lot more work for little extra edge...from my own limited experience, I agree.
Hi Opt I is better suited for a single or double deck game because of its better strategy variations.
As you seem to play mostly shoes, KO or Hi-Lo might be a better fit. Certainly, Vegas is primarily shoe, with some double deck, and only a few playable single deck games currently.
Better for Hi Opt is to go to Reno/Sparks in Northern Nevada, where there are mostly single deck games. Also, Reno & Sparks casinos have been known to give favorable exchange rates on Canadian to US dollars in order to attracttourists from Canada. You might try going there.
First Counting Experience Hi-Opt I
Posted by Sonny on 05-Jan-2005 11:17:12 (#11573)
> If you're not going to side count aces you are WAY better off to learn
> another count. SM
Even if you are going to add the ace side count later you may be better off with a different system. It sounds like you are going to be stuck at shoe games for most of your time so a side count might get a little tricky. The increased playing efficiency is not worth as much in shoe games as a solid betting correlation, so you might want to consider an ace-reckoned count like Hi-Low or Zen.
I use Hi-Opt II and love it, but for your circumstances you might benefit more from a different system. The Hi-Opt I system without the side count is VERY weak.
-Sonny-
Or maybe RPC
Posted by Automatic Monkey on 05-Jan-2005 13:30:35 (#11579)
I've simmed it, and although HO2+A has a slightly better figure of merit on a computer in shoe games, the additional errors associated with multiparameter probably make RPC (Revere Point Count) a better choice for a shoe player.
You can keep your HO1 indices...
Posted by zengrifter on 05-Jan-2005 13:35:18 (#11580)
... and simply add the Ace-1 & 2+1 to your current card tags. zg
First Counting Experience Hi-Opt I
Posted by questionmrk_man on 05-Jan-2005 23:35:12 (#11603)
Playing at Fallsview, you should know they use 8 decks and not 6 in those ASM's. That could have an effect on your TC conversion. I believe there are only 6 deck games in the hi limit room. You should try Hi-Lo as suggested by zg, it has a better BC and PE than HO I if you're not side counting aces. Someone correct me if i'm wrong.
?man
Hi - Low Choice
Posted by Counter Baby on 06-Jan-2005 17:37:23 (#11614)
Thank you very much for your responses and the congratulations on my first winnings. It seems to me, based on your responses, that instead of using Hi-Opt I I should learn Hi-Low count for my situation (AC 15+ days a year, Vegas 7 days a year). Where do Hi-Low and Hi-Opt differ in effectiveness? Is Hi-Low usefull for 1 or 2 deck games also? What book should I use to learn Hi-Low? I want a good all-around count system preferably without sidecounts. I already know Hi-Opt 1, but it seems I should change to a different system.
Posted by on 31-Dec-1969 18:00:00 (#11574)
IRS "problem"?
Posted by LVBear584 on 05-Jan-2005 12:42:23 (#11577)
What about the problem of cluing the IRS in to the amount of your winnings?
Why is this a problem? Are you implying that the IRS should not know about your casino winnings? Casino winnings are income no different than any other form of income that must be reported, and proper taxes paid on it. Being a skilled casino patron does not mean you become a tax criminal.
I agree
Posted by Bubb Rubb on 05-Jan-2005 18:17:07 (#11591)
We have enough problems without breaking the law. I have deleted my message which implied otherwise.
Bankroll investment
Posted by Sonny on 05-Jan-2005 11:31:37 (#11575)
I loved reading the discussion about investing a portion of one's bankroll when not using it.
I've been looking into a few options but with my meager bankroll (low four figures) there doesn't seem to be much that would offer a decent return. Any ideas? What do you guys use?
-Sonny-
There is nothing
Posted by The Mayor on 05-Jan-2005 12:08:37 (#11576)
Investing bankroll is no different than any other investment. How much risk for return are you willing to take?
I have a bunch of cash, but it is in a savings account. I want liquidity, safety, and growth (however slow). After consulting with two accountants, they couldn't think of anything better for my needs.
--Mayor
Savings Account?
Posted by BlackJackHack on 05-Jan-2005 14:25:49 (#11581)
I would find it shocking that a math professor and advantage player would keep anything more than $1k in a savings account.
AT LEAST move it into a money market account where you'll pull 5% interest with almost as much liquidity as a bank account and similar (zero) risk. You can get these from just about any brokerage firm (and probably from most banks as well). If you have enough money deposited, most brokerage firms will give you checking privileges, and you can use it much like a bank account.
Why play a 1.5% +EV game when you can play a +5% EV game?
Ok,
Posted by The Mayor on 05-Jan-2005 14:47:59 (#11582)
What money market account gives 5% and instant liquidity? Please! Tell me!!
blackhack is correct
Posted by eyesfor21 on 05-Jan-2005 15:10:28 (#11583)
One should never have more than I say $200 in any bank account.
You can sign up for a discount stock brokerage
account try Charles Schwab, or similar you do
not need to trade stocks at all.
Or try ING they offer quite high rates of savings.
OK, I am getting that rate already...
Posted by The Mayor on 05-Jan-2005 15:45:50 (#11584)
I am getting 2%+ already (that's what this link is), but the poster said 5%. Really, if you can get 5%, let us know! I am sure lots of folks would love to know about it.
--Mayor
many different ways Mayor ...hows 9.27%.
Posted by eyesfor21 on 05-Jan-2005 16:52:48 (#11588)
stocks/mutual funds can pay more but risky
here is a closed end fund that pays over 9% and not as risky as
stocks
but a little more risk than a money market. the rate is not guaranteed
but it has been staying there..
and they sure have been paying. Go to a discount broker otherwise
they will rack you for a high commission.Ameritrade charged
me 11 to buy this one,same fee to sell.I do not know
any money market rate paying more than a couple of pts.
here is the high end closed fund..then pay ya dividends every month
no limits to the funds you invest, are not locked in and certain
amount of time and it
doesn't move too much
up or down..other choices would be symbols: fax,and dhf but
I feel this phy is less volatile.and a better choice.here is some
info do your
research..good luck
PROSPECT ST HI NEW (NYSE:PHY) Delayed quote data Edit
Last Trade: 3.54
Trade Time: 3:51PM ET
Change: Down 0.02 (0.56%)
Prev Close: 3.56
Open: 3.56
I guess I am not clear
Posted by The Mayor on 05-Jan-2005 18:04:51 (#11590)
I don't want bonds or stocks, those have commissions on purchase/sale, and are not liquid (I can't walk in and get 12k out today for a bankroll). What LIQUID account gives above 3%, and by Liquid, I mean that at the drop of a hat you can walk in and get as much out of the account, for free, as you want, with no cost involved for deposites or withdrawels. Also, I don't want anything that has good *past performance*. I want something that is insured for my bankroll ... no risk at all.
I want: absolute liquidity (cash today on demand), high interest, and safety for my BR. I still say you can't give me above 3%.
3% no problem.
Posted by eyesfor21 on 05-Jan-2005 19:17:35 (#11595)
http://www.emigrant-direct.com/
I like the gold Idea
Posted by pooker101 on 05-Jan-2005 19:55:34 (#11598)
For as paranoid as I think people are here walking into a bank and withdrawing or for that matter depositing 12k would throw up all kinds of flags.
Of all the ideas Zengrifters idea I would think to be the best. The key to that would be finding a dealer or broker that would be fair and have cash on hand. I dont think gold will make any serious downward moves while we are in Iraq. Its almost as liquid as cash easier to transport you could roll up 20 1 oz. gold coins
around 9k and throw it in your luggage which would be a lot less conspicous than moving hard currency.
Also if you dont want to liquidate it I would think most major banks would accept it as collateral on short term notes. Hell I bet even casinos would accept it though that would bring attention to yourself ;)
Gold is +- $6
Posted by The Mayor on 05-Jan-2005 20:33:09 (#11599)
The usual fee for Gold transactions on demand is:
Buy = Market price + $6 /ounce
Sell = Market price = $6 /ounce
I have seen it as high as $12/ounce for this commission. But, I am yet to see commission free Gold purchases on demand.
See "In Gold We Trust"...
Posted by zengrifter on 06-Jan-2005 10:57:54 (#11607)
... on nonBJ board describing eGold gold-backed Internet currency and its 1% or less fee. zg
Don't
Posted by Automatic Monkey on 05-Jan-2005 19:42:06 (#11596)
Anything under $5 that pays a div like that is likely to be a dead stock walking. Also not marginable. Find any preferred issue trading at 97-102% of par and paying 7.5-10% yield, much much better than investing in a common fund like that.
Returns . . .
Posted by No name on 06-Jan-2005 01:22:20 (#11604)
If you take a look at any house up on the hill behind you you'll see $10k per month in appreciation. Since I'm willing to bet you're clever enough to figure out how to purchase just such a house and clever enough to set up a line of credit secured by same, I'd suggest you look there as a possible parking spot for your bankroll.
2%?
Say it ain't so!
P.S. Looking forward to receiving your book. Ordered a few days ago.
Already done
Posted by The Mayor on 06-Jan-2005 10:35:15 (#11606)
We do own and our house is appreciating 10k per month, but it is hard to turn on the spigot and get that out for bankroll. It's great for retirement, if, say, I move to Nebraska (with apologies to all Nebraskans).
>P.S. Looking forward to receiving your book. Ordered a few days ago.
Publisher says they will be delivered tomorrow (Friday, 01/07). We'll ship them immediately to those who pre-ordered. Thanks for your patience!
--Mayor
The Golden Hedge
Posted by zengrifter on 05-Jan-2005 13:18:23 (#11578)
The articles below make an attractive case.
Especially revealing are parts 2-3. zg
The Golden Hedge - Part One
http://www.lasvegastribune.com/bizfin17.html
The Golden Hedge - Part Two
http://www.lasvegastribune.com/bizfin10.html
The Golden Hedge - Part Three
http://www.cardcounter.com/nonBJ.pl?read=2343
Mayor, this is easy
Posted by Goose on 06-Jan-2005 04:21:03 (#11605)
I can give you 3.48% on your return but it is long term. On the bright sid eit's completely liquid and you're welcome to withdraw as much as you'd like at anytime for free.
housing could drop 20% easy especially in CA.
Posted by eyesfor21 on 06-Jan-2005 20:21:33 (#11616)
http://www.mensnewsdaily.com/archive/s/sheppard/2005/sheppard010305.htm
do i really want this? .... advice please
Posted by double down dutch on 05-Jan-2005 16:07:37 (#11585)
Before posting I'd like to say how sorry I am to hear about Rob McGarvey (I don't get on hear that often).. a little over a year ago he helped me get started in online play... everything he said was on the money and every bonus he agreed to split with me was sent; pretty awesome considering we met over the internet... god bless may you rest in peace...
.... While at a Christmas party (mingling with some folks I didn't really know) the subject turned to gambling (mostly hold'em.. friggin' TV). When a guy's wife made a comment about his losses at the craps table I turned to my fiancee (this is her crowd by the way..... my redbird A double S doesn't run in these cirlces), "did she just say that hubby lost a hundred large throwing dice!!!???"
The little wheel in my head started doing double time. Sure enough I made a comment to the Mrs. and the curiosity got the best of her and she told hubby and he wanted to hear the one minute speech on a subject near and dear to all of us .... With in minutes I found myself at a hold'em table with a small crowd around me .... 20 chips in front of me, he's the dealer (SD, H17, DA2, no DAS, 5 hands per deck, spread 1-4) .... I suddenly realize I'm nervous. Now here's the problem, it went too damn good!! 4 units out ... snapper, 1 unit out neg. count hard 12 against a 4 ... hit and win, after five decks I had over doubled the stack. He makes a proposal that the first trip we'll sit together and play black; if it goes well we'll switch to purple (holy crap... this man just said purple!).... he's got visions of millions and i've got visions of 1.5% or a .22 behind the ear if I lose his money (yes, crazy thougts did enter my mind). Here's the question and all thought's will be greatly appreciated. Would you sit down with a backer's money? If so, what kind of a split would you ask for? Thanks in advance
-Double Down Dutch
PS. I'm in Reno for the NBAA conference feb. 12-16 (at a nickel table of course) if anyone happens to be in the area the beer is on me (while at the tables.. but you're drinkin' alone.. lol)
casinos are not our ATM machines
Posted by Victoria on 05-Jan-2005 17:45:25 (#11589)
Your friend might be under the impression that being a cardcounter means that you are going to be a winner just about every time you walk into the casino. It is an easy false impression for most people when you consider the ways we are portrayed in movies and tv. Casinos also do not mind letting the public think that they would go broke if they let some counter take advantage of them. If you go into a partnership with him, it should be made clear to him that you are striving to get a small, perhaps 1.5% advantage and in the long run should win about 55% of your visits, loosing the other 45%.
Some might think it would be real nice if casinos were our ATM machines but to me that would take much of the fun out of beating them.
Victoria
I'll take the atm approach any day! *NM*
Posted by wong out on 07-Jan-2005 21:45:13 (#11645)
Depending on the size stakes...
Posted by zengrifter on 05-Jan-2005 18:56:47 (#11594)
... and overall cumulative length of play, between 10% and 50% should be your cut. If he is going to bet the money himeself, then you will need to create and sufficiently practice a signalling technique for his bets/plays. PRACTICE! You will also need a strategy for his table exits and cover bets.
Ideally you should l;ine up another player of two to spot multiple tables for him. zg
Blackjack Sim software
Posted by Garo on 05-Jan-2005 16:33:56 (#11586)
This post is mainly directed to Mayor and any other software engineers out there. DO you all write your own blackjack sim software, if so what language do you use and what libraries do you use? Any help to get me started writing my own sims would be appreciated. I usually write in C++ but am also proficient in Java and VB. Or if there is freeware out there that would be appreciated too.
Ace Sidecounts for Hi-Lo
Posted by JR on 05-Jan-2005 16:40:52 (#11587)
I would love to hear any/all views/advice about counting aces with Hi-Lo and Ill 18. Things like...how you do it...some of the advantages...play variations, etc.
Not worth the effort...
Posted by zengrifter on 05-Jan-2005 18:30:49 (#11592)
... and its primarily for play adjusts (not betting) at 1D. zg
It helps insurance most
Posted by Automatic Monkey on 05-Jan-2005 19:49:01 (#11597)
An Ace sidecount can increase the insurance efficiency of High-Low quite a bit You end up treating the Ace like a low card for insurance purposes, forgot all the details. Probably worthwhile if you want to use High-Low and if the sidecount doesn't distract you from doing anything else.
On the other hand, if you are experienced enough to effectively use a sidecount, you're experienced enough to use a stronger count than High-Low and your effort might best be expended there.
hi-lo with side aces
Posted by Dali-lama on 07-Jan-2005 07:00:38 (#11621)
I have seen this Q come up alot lately. If you want a side count
I recommened just using hi-opt 1. You have fewer cards to track and
you get the benefit of the side count. Moreover the Ill 18 are similar
so you don't have alot more to learn. Find it in "The Worlbs Greatest B.J. Book"
hi-opt II
Posted by mark on 05-Jan-2005 21:21:50 (#11602)
Are there any other ways to improve the performance of hi-opt II even more?
besides using RPC for betting.
hi-opt II
Posted by Sonny on 06-Jan-2005 11:25:41 (#11609)
> Are there any other ways to improve the performance of hi-opt II even more?
> besides using RPC for betting.
First of all, the Hi-Opt II (with the ace sidecount) has an excellent Betting Correlation. I think it is somewhere around .99, right guys? Trying to improve it is probably beating a dead horse.
You could add another sidecount, but this is probably not worth it. Multi-parameter counts can be very difficult and may not add very much to your win rate.
You could learn to play faster. Playing an extra 20 hands per hour can add an extra .20% to your win rate. That could be more than an added sidecount will get you.
You could learn more BS departures. The Hi-Opt II has a very good PE, why not take advantage of it?
There are numerous other ways to get an advantage in this game (like shuffle-tracking, hole carding, sequence tracking, side bets, etc.) that spending too much time on your counting system alone could be detrimental.
-Sonny-
The Mayor's RMatch 'theory' was 'proven'...
Posted by zengrifter on 06-Jan-2005 14:54:31 (#11612)
...two nights ago - while playing at a 1D RM game I noticed that the player split 3s and proceded to bust each with a RM - side by side RMs were scooped into the discard tray - there were three hands in play at the table two players + dealer - the dealer doeas a quick strip and then riflles the deck three times - WHOA! WORTH A GAMBLE I CONCLUDE - I bet my max bet on the RM off the top and onward - WAM second round I nailed one! Thanks Professor! zg
Glad you got "lucky"
Posted by The Mayor on 06-Jan-2005 19:05:03 (#11615)
I don't know the Theory of which you speak, but hey, I'll take credit!
You speciffically suggested...
Posted by zengrifter on 07-Jan-2005 22:01:54 (#11648)
.., on another board that IF the suited KQ fell together they might be trackable using a riffle-count approach ala Ace-Location methods. zg
Blush
Posted by The Mayor on 07-Jan-2005 23:26:05 (#11656)
I have a very short memory. My wife will attest to that. I forget the first part of her sentences before she finishes the last part.
Here, now remember...
Posted by zengrifter on 08-Jan-2005 01:17:42 (#11664)
..."Another angle that occurs to me would be to take into account any information you might have from the previous deck's play that might shed light on the likelihood of matches, especially royal matches, occurring in the new deck. For instance, if a suited K,Q pair were discarded together during the play of one deck (not necessarily as a royal match), they might be more likely to come out close together during the next deck of play, depending of course on the shuffle. For instance, in Wong's shuffle study in chapter 15 of Professional Blackjack, it was found that adjacent discards in the single-deck shuffle considered ended up in the same order, separated by between 1 and 7 cards, about 44% of the time."
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