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#1
July 18th, 2009, 06:24 PM
 zhang24 Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1
Beginner question about UBZII

Before I begin, let me say that I'm planning to use simpler card counting strategies before attempting this one and will practice A LOT before counting in the casinos. I'm just curious about how this system works because I find card counting to be very interesting, and the CVData simulator shows it to be the best strategy for the type of game I'd most likely be playing in the future. This would be 8 decks, about 70-75 penetration, 5 or 10 dollar betting units, and a modified 1-15 spread that actually gives me a slight betting advantage over the traditional 1-15. Atlantic City rules would apply.

First off, is UBZII truly the best level 2 system available (for an 8 deck game) that also isn't highly complicated? I have a general idea of how counting with this system would work just from looking at the Strategy Tables, but there are a couple things I'm unclear about since I haven't read anything on the subject. The first is when to take insurance. With this system, I see that the "insurance decks table" (maybe just a term used in CVData) has a value of "3". Does this mean that I should take insurance when the count is above 3? I don't understand the difference between the insurance decks table and insurance hands table either. Second, assuming the table will be full, are you expected to count everyone's cards including of course, your own?

Finally, and more related to the mechanics of card counting, when the starting count starts at -32, it seems like to would take forever to reach a count even near 0, let alone the higher numbers in the system. Is there any division going on, or is this only for a balanced system? Thanks for your help. I understand that these questions may come off as ridiculous to those of you who are experienced counters, especially because I might know things about penetration, but lack basic knowledge about the mechanics of card counting stratiegy. I will buy a book fairly soon. These questions are just burning in my head right now and it would be nice to have some answers in the mean time.

Last edited by zhang24; July 18th, 2009 at 06:41 PM.
#2
July 18th, 2009, 06:40 PM
 FLASH1296 Executive Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: East Coast, U S A Posts: 2,748

Yes, ALL cards are to be counted as they are seen.

Balanced systems uses VERY simple division to create True Counts.

Balanced Systems are more powerful than unbalanced systems, but Unbalanced Counts are sufficient for casual occasional low-stakes recreational players.

As unbalanced counts go, UBZII is certainly the best.

For \$20 you can purchase the actual system from PiYee Press.

If you cannot afford \$20 you cannot afford to play BJ.

As a beginner, I suggest studying "Blackbelt in Blackjack" by Arnold Snyder.

Last edited by FLASH1296; July 18th, 2009 at 06:44 PM.
#3
July 18th, 2009, 11:36 PM
 ah...craps Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 19

I'm curious how you decided to use UBZII despite having no apparent knowledge of counting...and again I feel a hollow feeling inside me as I would suggest the same two books as the above poster.
#4
July 19th, 2009, 03:19 AM
 tripsix Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 51

Quote:
 Originally Posted by zhang24 Before I begin, let me say that I'm planning to use simpler card counting strategies before attempting this one and will practice A LOT before counting in the casinos.
Very good!

Quote:
 I'm just curious about how this system works because I find card counting to be very interesting, and the CVData simulator shows it to be the best strategy for the type of game I'd most likely be playing in the future. . . First off, is UBZII truly the best level 2 system available (for an 8 deck game) that also isn't highly complicated? and more related to the mechanics of card counting, when the starting count starts at -32, it seems like to would take forever to reach a count even near 0, let alone the higher numbers in the system. Is there any division going on, or is this only for a balanced system? pardon the above semi-quote and rearrangement for brevity
8D shoes take forever and then some to get through.

only balanced systems use division.

If your not afraid of a little division and deck estimation then a balanced count allows you to take advantage earlier than an unbalanced count.

Compared to UBZII the Zen count(balanced) actually has a better Playing Efficiency(PE) and Insurance Count(IC.)
While UBZII does enjoy a +.01 in Betting Correlation(BC,) which usually trumps PE and IC, if you are relegated to playing 8D then Zen might be the better way to go.

Quote:
 I have a general idea of how counting ... would work ... there are a couple things I'm unclear about. The first is when to take insurance. With this system, I see that the "insurance decks table" (maybe just a term used in CVData) has a value of "3". Does this mean that I should take insurance when the count is above 3?
Yes, the majority of index numbers indicate if the count is => then depart from basic strategy. A few index numbers will be reverse i.e <= but usually that is noted.
Quote:
 Second, assuming the table will be full, are you expected to count everyone's cards including of course, your own?
YES.
Quote:
 Thanks for your help. . . I will buy a book fairly soon.
Blackbelt in BJ is both informative and enjoyable to read!

Good Cards
#5
July 19th, 2009, 05:55 AM
 boneuphtoner Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 148

Quote:
 First off, is UBZII truly the best level 2 system available (for an 8 deck game) that also isn't highly complicated?
With the right indices, it is one of the top level 2 systems available, balanced or unbalanced. My rounded 25 indices UBZ-II-Ultimate easily beats the level 2 RPC and Mentor that are true counted with the sweet 16, fab 4. As my sims show, my version of UBZ-II performs comparably to the full indexed versions of these as well.

Here is the link for my sims:

http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/show...t=6996&page=10

Last edited by boneuphtoner; July 19th, 2009 at 05:56 AM. Reason: corrected link
#6
July 19th, 2009, 12:02 PM
 cpage727 Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: NJ Posts: 87
any more book recommendations?

i'm thinking about making the switch from TKO to UBZ2 do you guys have any more book recommendations besides "the unbalanced zen 2"

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