Testing and Protection of New Card Counting Strategy

sagefr0g

sagefr0g

Well-Known Member
#21
#21
X

xengrifter

Banned
#22
#22
xengrifter said:
E. F. Schumacher said that any second-rate engineer can continually tool towards increasing complexity; but real genius begets breakthrough via simplicity.
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Peter JF said:
You are very smart Don, I don't mean to offend you in any way. Just sayin' the obvious I guess. I also not you did not answer my question, or maybe just treat it as a rhetorical one? I didn't think there was an answer, if there was I think you would have found it already (I mean a way for a better count system in terms of performance to what we already have got... excepting difficult ones that only computers can use).
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Peter, you quoted my reply, not Don's, in support of your proposed breakthrough of simplicity.
 
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Dummy

Well-Known Member
#23
#23
London Colin said:
Just out of interest. Has any form of IP protection ever been applied to any counting system?
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All someone would have to do is change an index or the way TC is calculated and they would not be stealing your property (if it got IP protection). Basically you would protect you specific idea but thousands of ways to barely alter it and basically have the same product or possibly an improved version of your product would be totally legal. This makes IP protection a waste of time and money.
 
Peter JF

Peter JF

Active Member
#24
#24
London Colin said:
Just out of interest. Has any form of IP protection ever been applied to any counting system?

It seems like an odd idea. What would it cover - the writing of books describing the system?
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Well there are 'proprietary' counting systems, so there must be some way to have ownership. From what I can see this is often done by direct training and confidentiality agreement. Maybe others can add more to this than me but that is what I see on-line.
 
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DSchles

Well-Known Member
#26
#26
Peter JF said:
Well there are 'proprietary' counting systems, so there must be some way to have ownership. From what I can see this is often done by direct training and confidentiality agreement. Maybe others can add more to this than me but that is what I see on-line.
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A mathematical formula cannot be copyright protected. No one "owns" A = pi*r^2. Similarly, the tags to a count system are in the public domain and cannot be "protected." But, if the author then goes on to do intellectual work, such as devising the strategy deviations and publishing indices for the system, then that work can be protected. And, of course, if he/she holds seminars, such as what was done for Speed Count, and publishes materials to accompany the course, then that printed matter is also subject to copyright laws.

But all of this is academic, because you aren't going to produce anything of value.

Don
 
Peter JF

Peter JF

Active Member
#27
#27
DSchles said:
A mathematical formula cannot be copyright protected. No one "owns" A = pi*r^2. Similarly, the tags to a count system are in the public domain and cannot be "protected." But, if the author then goes on to do intellectual work, such as devising the strategy deviations and publishing indices for the system, then that work can be protected. And, of course, if he/she holds seminars, such as what was done for Speed Count, and publishes materials to accompany the course, then that printed matter is also subject to copyright laws.

But all of this is academic, because you aren't going to produce anything of value.

Don
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Thanks for the input again Don, very useful. I am getting use to the negativity... that would only make so much sweeter if it was of value in the end. But I agree for you it will have no value, you are way above such a simple system that I would need to count well (almost effortlessly). I am just glad there are a lot more of us of much less calibre than you intellectually, or it would be a lonely plant for me lol. I am still hoping it has some value in that it will actually give an advantage and a significant one in relation to the effort required to implement it.
 
D

Dummy

Well-Known Member
#28
#28
Peter JF said:
such a simple system that I would need to count well (almost effortlessly).
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Counting effortlessly isn't about choosing a count that you can do without practice. It is about practicing all aspects of your system until it is all automatic.
 
Peter JF

Peter JF

Active Member
#31
#31
xengrifter said:
I'd like Gronberg to run the sims ...
... what is your proposal, cash fee or co-ownership?
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OK Gronbog has the count strategy to test... I think it might take a while to set up as it is not a normal count table. I have just got to get the basic strategy variation table done for him when he is ready. But I have him the bet spread table to use to start with (which of course can be optimised with his tests). Let's wait and see then.
 
Peter JF

Peter JF

Active Member
#33
#33
xengrifter said:
He is ready NOW...
...but how are you calculating the basic strategy departures without simulation?
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I am basing this on the balanced count upon which the quick count is based. I did some work on this last night and have the tables ready. I have not sent on to Gronbog yet as I want to check over these and edit a little for simplicity. I have already taken out some of the extremes of the counts that make it cumbersome and don't add much value. I think there can be some more pruning done there under simulation to get it down further to keep even the play variations quite simple and manageable. However, its nothing surprising on that side as you might expect, but anyway at least that is also don now. But like I said, this might take some setting up by Gronbog as the approach to the count is novel.
 
Peter JF

Peter JF

Active Member
#34
#34
Just to inform those following the evaluation of my new Simplest Count system, Gronbog has informed me he has managed to set up the simulation and it is running 20 billion hands. I would like to some time to review the results and maybe tweak if required, but I will let you know how it turns out, whether good or bad. Gronbog says it will take a while to run these sims. Thanks to Gronbog and Zengrifter suggestion for him to run these we will have results soon. I checked on my old copy of Casino Verite but that does not seem to have the flexibility to implement this novel approach to counting (I could not open my copy as its too old for my current operating system, but I read through the manual for CV and it did not seem to support my new approach at all).
 
Peter JF

Peter JF

Active Member
#38
#38
Taff said:
What happened to this then.???
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This system works much better than any card counting system for making money lol... I think I am going to put the price up... I think it is worth more than Don's book (in terms of payback), but I don't think I will push it that far. Buy a copy now before the price goes up if interested! Don's book is much more technical than mine though, so maybe justifies the extra dollars for that alone.
 
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johndoe

Well-Known Member
#39
#39
Peter JF said:
This system works much better than any card counting system for making money lol... I think I am going to put the price up... I think it is worth more than Don's book (in terms of payback), but I don't think I will push it that far. Buy a copy now before the price goes up if interested! Don's book is much more technical than mine though, so maybe justifies the extra dollars for that alone.
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Do you have any evidence for such a claim?
 
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