Typical N0 for a wong out -1 game?

[ZenKinG]

I've always been under the impression on CVCX that you dont put a bet in the -1 TC box on the archived sims if you're wonging out at -1 in real life such as when the RC is -5 and 5 decks left etc. Apparently and I remember this from a long time ago on another forum that CVCX floors the TCs not just for playing but for betting, correct? So a RC of -1 with 5 decks left actually counts as a TC -1 because it's TC -0.2 and flooring it would be -1. That means we have to use CVCX as putting a bet in the -1 box. When I do that I get a N0 of 24k rather than the 15k had I just ignored the -1 box and placed bets at 0 and above. Even when I run my own sim it asks if i want it floored or truncated and just to test it out I put it to truncate which means I'm rounding positive counts down and negative counts up. In other words a TC of +4.5 is +4 and a TC of -0.5 is 0. The N0 still came out to around 22k, which is close to the archived flooring sim of 24k which uses bets at -1 so it looks like CVCX is taking any negative RC and flooring it to -1.

Can other people chime in and let me know what kind of N0 they are getting for a H17 DAS LS game with a 1.5 cutoff on a 6 deck game and if I'm wonging out in real life whenever the RC divided by the remaining decks left is -1 and not whenever the RC is a negative decimal and flooring it down. I really want to add some heads up action to my game but not if the N0 is above 20k. I'm too used to playing a backcounting game of around 12 to 14k so that depresses me. Something doesn't seem right that the N0 increases that much when I'm barely playing any negatives.

 

[ZenKinG]

Anyone? The N0 is probably around 20-22k, but funny how no one has an answer. This website used to be somewhat worthwhile 10 years ago, now it's dead.

 

[Stevel96a1]

because card counting is dead, if your remotely successful at it the house can block/stop your action in various ways.
so why learn something and risk a large sum of cash to get back little return follow by a ban?

hows your bankroll doing ZK? did you reach a mil like the famous KJ?

 

[ZenKinG]

because card counting is dead, if your remotely successful at it the house can block/stop your action in various ways.
so why learn something and risk a large sum of cash to get back little return follow by a ban?

hows your bankroll doing ZK? did you reach a mil like the famous KJ?

I dont know why you're always trolling here. You likely have some form of OCD because you're always obsessing and asking about if card counting really works. Just look at the post you just made, which is very similar to all of your posts regarding counting. You do it very subtly and indirectly hoping to get some 'reassurance' of your erroneous beliefs that card counting isn't worth it or that it doesn't work by asking rhetorical questions. Either that or you're a casino shill that wants to bad mouth the game to stop encouraging players to play or you're a failed counter that just bad mouth's the game because you went in unprepared and improperly bankrolled.

Go see a therapist.

 

[BJ Lover]

because card counting is dead, if your remotely successful at it the house can block/stop your action in various ways.
so why learn something and risk a large sum of cash to get back little return follow by a ban?

hows your bankroll doing ZK? did you reach a mil like the famous KJ?

Card counting isn’t dead. It’s a fun hobby. It should be dead as a career choice. If someone has what it takes to make a successful career out of card counting they could probably be successful at many normal jobs and make more money.

 

[Stevel96a1]

you still avoided my question sir

if i had to guess your bankroll is in the realm of 20k or 35k

no im not trolling but you sure do that on WOO site
im just pokin fun at your game you do post alot on here about casino cheating i know counting works
and as i stated before they will block/stop you from extracting funds from the table

so answer me already!

 

[bjo32]

Anyone? The N0 is probably around 20-22k, but funny how no one has an answer. This website used to be somewhat worthwhile 10 years ago, now it's dead.

Hey ZenKingG, come over to Vegas casino talk forum. We have quite a few AP blackjack players over there that might be able to help you. I’ve just come over there a couple weeks ago from some other sites and I find it’s alive and you get your blackjack questions answered....and you can still insult other posters without the fear of getting banned. Anything goes. It’s like the Wild Wild West! It’s the perfect forum!

 

[Stevel96a1]

i hope you go broke ZK and work at mcy dee's!

 

[SplitFaceDisaster]

Not sure if I`m interpreting what you`re saying correctly or not, but here`s what I did... I just messed around with CVCX and I think I know the best way for you to get as close as possible to a perfect answer since the flooring messes with the numbers you`re trying to find. Run it floored like you were of course, but then have it track down to the -2 TC (default setting is -1) on the second page (top right). As you know, when you put a bet into the -1 box on the archived sims, it`s not only taking into account your bets at -1, it`s also assuming you`re betting that amount at all the negative counts below -1 too. So this way you have another box below the -1 TC to put a bet of zero for that count and the ones below it. Then turn on the half true counts when it finishes to look at the numbers and that gives you a way to analyze the numbers even more. I ran it for 2 players (Halves) and what I think is your spread (not sure, but I`m at least close because we talked about it not long ago). When I put in a bet of zero for -2, and 25 for -1.5, I get an n-zero of 20.6k rounds and when I take the bet out of the -1.5 box and start the betting at 25 in the -1 box above, I get 19.6k rounds. Since you said a 20k n-zero is the most you want to take on, it`s gonna be a pretty hard choice to make since it`s so close.

 

[ZenKinG]

Not sure if I`m interpreting what you`re saying correctly or not, but here`s what I did... I just messed around with CVCX and I think I know the best way for you to get as close as possible to a perfect answer since the flooring messes with the numbers you`re trying to find. Run it floored like you were of course, but then have it track down to the -2 TC (default setting is -1) on the second page (top right). As you know, when you put a bet into the -1 box on the archived sims, it`s not only taking into account your bets at -1, it`s also assuming you`re betting that amount at all the negative counts below -1 too. So this way you have another box below the -1 TC to put a bet of zero for that count and the ones below it. Then turn on the half true counts when it finishes to look at the numbers and that gives you a way to analyze the numbers even more. I ran it for 2 players (Halves) and what I think is your spread (not sure, but I`m at least close because we talked about it not long ago). When I put in a bet of zero for -2, and 25 for -1.5, I get an n-zero of 20.6k rounds and when I take the bet out of the -1.5 box and start the betting at 25 in the -1 box above, I get 19.6k rounds. Since you said a 20k n-zero is the most you want to take on, it`s gonna be a pretty hard choice to make since it`s so close.

Thanks man for that. Appreciate you taking the time to help out. That sounds about right and interesting way of doing it as well.

 

[SplitFaceDisaster]

Thanks man for that. Appreciate you taking the time to help out. That sounds about right and interesting way of doing it as well.

No problem, glad I could help out. It`s not exact, but that was the only thing I could come up with. I think it gets at least pretty close to what the number should be.

 

[Stevel96a1]

Damn it Zen King did vegas break you yet? i demand u tell me what your bank roll is now 25k? after living expesnse 1.5 years or 2 whenever you moved to vegas must bedown around 20kish so 40k? probably lower since you been complaining alot about cheating
30k am i in the ball park?

 

[ZenKinG]

Damn it Zen King did vegas break you yet? i demand u tell me what your bank roll is now 25k? after living expesnse 1.5 years or 2 whenever you moved to vegas must bedown around 20kish so 40k? probably lower since you been complaining alot about cheating
30k am i in the ball park?

Higher than every number you mentioned you idiot troll. Go back to playing video poker with your 0.00001% edge and dreading your miserable life.

 

[Stevel96a1]

really? you mentioned wizard of odds u dropped from 60k to 43k
with all that ranting u did id imagine it would be 30k maybe 25k?
either your lying or just stupid

and i dont gamble for a living and i dont dread my life its actually fun not worrying if im gonna win and pay bills like u LOL =)

 

[BoSox]

Steve, what a way to enjoy your life, by reading gaming boards, hoping that everyone fails. You are a real piece of work.

 

[Stevel96a1]

i dont hope everyone fails, just the ones that swear at me and label me a troll.
i imagine ZK is down around 30kish w/o working and living expense and the way he rants how the casino keeps cheating him
swings of 10 grand are not uncommon which is why i wonder why he gets all upset when it happens in vegas but he talks like its the norm to lose/win 10k in sands pa

so yea that guy is a funny bird

 

[KewlJ]

Steve, what a way to enjoy your life, by reading gaming boards, hoping that everyone fails. You are a real piece of work.

Haters gotta HATE. That's what they do.

I happen to think Zenking is doing fine.....sort of. (not that anyone asked me).

Near as I can tell from afar, meaning reading his posts, he moved to Vegas two years ago, and has been able to support himself for two years now playing blackjack. From what he says his bankroll hasn't gone down as the haters want to say, but remained fairly level. So he isn't living off that money that he brought with him (bankroll), he is living off his winnings. And that he the name of the game.

I think Zenking is frustrated that his BR hasn't grown or grown as much as he would like. But he has been able to pay his bills without depleting it. That is step 1. Congrats to ZK for that.

I do think ZK has some issues. I don't think he is yet comfortable with the swings that are involved with blackjack card counting. And he handles this by public venting and making some posts and comments that are a little bizarre to read, during negative variance periods. Hey, he is working through it.

And from what I have read, his living situation isn't the best. He is overpaying for what he is getting, I guess due to lack of credit and rental history. I would like to see that improve for him, so that he could either live a bit cheaper or if he is going to pay what he is paying, get a little more quality for his dollar. But honestly, I am not sure how that happens for a person with little or no credit or rental history. I guess the only other options are you take a roommate or pay a big deposit, neither of which he wants to do.

He'll figure it out. In the meantime, he is doing ok.

 

[Stevel96a1]

so with a 45k roll you make min wage in vegas living pay check to pay check? what about retirement? sounds like he needs a 90k roll to put away for savings

 

[ZenKinG]

Haters gotta HATE. That's what they do.

I happen to think Zenking is doing fine.....sort of. (not that anyone asked me).

Near as I can tell from afar, meaning reading his posts, he moved to Vegas two years ago, and has been able to support himself for two years now playing blackjack. From what he says his bankroll hasn't gone down as the haters want to say, but remained fairly level. So he isn't living off that money that he brought with him (bankroll), he is living off his winnings. And that he the name of the game.

I think Zenking is frustrated that his BR hasn't grown or grown as much as he would like. But he has been able to pay his bills without depleting it. That is step 1. Congrats to ZK for that.

I do think ZK has some issues. I don't think he is yet comfortable with the swings that are involved with blackjack card counting. And he handles this by public venting and making some posts and comments that are a little bizarre to read, during negative variance periods. Hey, he is working through it.

And from what I have read, his living situation isn't the best. He is overpaying for what he is getting, I guess due to lack of credit and rental history. I would like to see that improve for him, so that he could either live a bit cheaper or if he is going to pay what he is paying, get a little more quality for his dollar. But honestly, I am not sure how that happens for a person with little or no credit or rental history. I guess the only other options are you take a roommate or pay a big deposit, neither of which he wants to do.

He'll figure it out. In the meantime, he is doing ok.

Partially right. My bankroll is only like 44k now and i came here with 58k. Sure, I've made money here playing blackjack but im not exactly 'living off my winnings' since the expenses have been more than my actual winnings. With that being said, I only have myself to blame because I just didn't play enough since moving out here as much as much as I hate to admit it, as well as not being mentally prepared to play as much as I needed to since I've always done this part time with no expenses. It's been a bit of a 'shock' so to speak, but I think I'm finally adjusting to the lifestyle a bit more of what it actually takes. Even though it didn't help getting dealt a massive blow when I first got to town going down 5 figures 3 separate times causing me to be paranoid and limiting my playing time, I was still way too passive in my approach and didn't play as much as I needed to the first year. I've really been trying to play more lately and taking this a bit more seriously.

Very depressing time to say the least cause im in the middle of the worst run of cards imaginable. I've literally lost the last 5 split 10 opportunities or so where i split multiple times as well in the same round and it's not like I'm getting ending bad hands after I'm done splitting the 10s. I'm ending up with 19s, 20's, and at times even 21's and the dealer flips out to 20 or 21 knocking all of them out or most of them out. They don't just get 20 or 21 either with a 5 or 6 underneath as the hole card, but rather they are pulling miracle 4,s 5's, and 6s on their 15's and 16's AFTER a 10 being in the hole where I'm then a major favorite to win as literally only 3 value cards can beat me out of 12 total value cards in the pack (2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,J,Q,K) and they pull their miracle 5's and 6's every time or even a 4 for that matter on a 16, just mind boggling how bad im running on these big hands. I dont ever remember running so badly on splitting 10s in my life, considering halves is also the best count for this type of play due to the 9 value card. That alone though is about an 8k swing just on these horrendous splitting 10's I've had. Had I won them rather than lose every hand or nearly every hand in those rounds, my bankroll would be over 50k again easily.

Not to mention all the premium hands im losing with max bets out or close to max bets out against dealer 5s and 6's where they seem to always make a hand lately, and a 21 at that. I recently had THREE A9'S on the table vs a dealer 5, even though it was only a +2 count and my minimum wong in bet was out, dealer pulled a 4 card 21 to wipe out all THREE 20's I had on there. I also can't remember the last time I had a max bet out vs a dealer 5 or 6 or even a 4, and the dealer flipped a 10 value card in the hole and then another 10 value card to bust with 24, 25 or 26.. I honestly don't know how I have even made money in the past 2 years with me losing the majority of big hand swing opportunities. Having 500 to 1k on the felt in one round and losing to a dealer 21 time and time again with doubled 20's, 19's, etc and having the dealer keep pulling a miracle 5 or 6 is a 2k SWING off some miraculous bullshit where I'm a massive favorite. It's so disgusting.

Also, KJ, I know you play this type of approach of white rabbit, so can you please comment on what your N0 is for this?

 

[SplitFaceDisaster]

Partially right. My bankroll is only like 44k now and i came here with 58k. Sure, I've made money here playing blackjack but im not exactly 'living off my winnings' since the expenses have been more than my actual winnings. With that being said, I only have myself to blame because I just didn't play enough since moving out here as much as much as I hate to admit it, as well as not being mentally prepared to play as much as I needed to since I've always done this part time with no expenses. It's been a bit of a 'shock' so to speak, but I think I'm finally adjusting to the lifestyle a bit more of what it actually takes. Even though it didn't help getting dealt a massive blow when I first got to town going down 5 figures 3 separate times causing me to be paranoid and limiting my playing time, I was still way too passive in my approach and didn't play as much as I needed to the first year. I've really been trying to play more lately and taking this a bit more seriously.

Very depressing time to say the least cause im in the middle of the worst run of cards imaginable. I've literally lost the last 5 split 10 opportunities or so where i split multiple times as well in the same round and it's not like I'm getting ending bad hands after I'm done splitting the 10s. I'm ending up with 19s, 20's, and at times even 21's and the dealer flips out to 20 or 21 knocking all of them out or most of them out. They don't just get 20 or 21 either with a 5 or 6 underneath as the hole card, but rather they are pulling miracle 4,s 5's, and 6s on their 15's and 16's AFTER a 10 being in the hole where I'm then a major favorite to win as literally only 3 value cards can beat me out of 12 total value cards in the pack (2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,J,Q,K) and they pull their miracle 5's and 6's every time or even a 4 for that matter on a 16, just mind boggling how bad im running on these big hands. I dont ever remember running so badly on splitting 10s in my life, considering halves is also the best count for this type of play due to the 9 value card. That alone though is about an 8k swing just on these horrendous splitting 10's I've had. Had I won them rather than lose every hand or nearly every hand in those rounds, my bankroll would be over 50k again easily.

Not to mention all the premium hands im losing with max bets out or close to max bets out against dealer 5s and 6's where they seem to always make a hand lately, and a 21 at that. I recently had THREE A9'S on the table vs a dealer 5, even though it was only a +2 count and my minimum wong in bet was out, dealer pulled a 4 card 21 to wipe out all THREE 20's I had on there. I also can't remember the last time I had a max bet out vs a dealer 5 or 6 or even a 4, and the dealer flipped a 10 value card in the hole and then another 10 value card to bust with 24, 25 or 26.. I honestly don't know how I have even made money in the past 2 years with me losing the majority of big hand swing opportunities. Having 500 to 1k on the felt in one round and losing to a dealer 21 time and time again with doubled 20's, 19's, etc and having the dealer keep pulling a miracle 5 or 6 is a 2k SWING off some miraculous bullshit where I'm a massive favorite. It's so disgusting.

Also, KJ, I know you play this type of approach of white rabbit, so can you please comment on what your N0 is for this?

As I was just talking about in the 100 unit buy-in thread, the crazy thing about card counting is that even if you`re playing to a RoR of under 1% as I know you are, the swings are absolutely huge in relation to the amount of your total bankroll. Your examples above show it. I`ve personally gone through very similar swings, and it`s extremely stressful. When you lose a quarter of your bankroll in a couple months even after having a very low RoR, it feels unfathomable that it could happen. But it can and does on a regular basis. I think this aspect is something that isn`t talked about enough when people are talking about how much of a bankroll they may need. I remember Jabberwocky on BJTF saying you need 300 max bets which seemed like overkill to me... I now know he was exactly right.