Splitting 10's video @ BJTF

KewlJ

KewlJ

Well-Known Member
#1
#1
I want to comment about that video posted this morning at BJTF.

First, I have never seen a casino that didn't have a limit to number of re-splits. BUT, I don't play a wide range of locations and none outside the US, so I am kind of "sheltered". ;) Also, wouldn't surprise me if pit were to relax that rule for a player they had determined was no thread (or worse).

But what I really want to mention is the quality of the video. It obviously was a surveillance video as it is shot from above and has the table # game stamp on it. That video is not very good quality. They did darken it a bit part way through after several splits (probably the point that surveillance became interested), but even then, was not very good. I could only make out some of the cards by pips. I expected more. I always hear surveillance can read the date off a dime. Didn't appear so at THIS location. :rolleyes:
 
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DSchles

Well-Known Member
#4
#4
In the old days (I don't know the date on this), many casinos allowed infinite resplits. At the DD Riviera Las Vegas game, I once saw an (idiot) player split 7s SEVEN times vs. the dealer's 10 (!). Cards all over the table. He lost every hand to the dealer's 20!

Don
 
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21forme

Well-Known Member
#5
#5
I missed this thread at BJTF. Looking at the video here and going into full screen mode, it's too grainy to read the felt for the casino name. However, it does look like a Benji when he bought in for more, not that some foreign casinos don't use USD.. Also interesting is the cards are dealt from a shoe and looks like maybe 2 decks in the shoe and about one deck in the discard tray. Odd... Hard to believe this is real.

If this were my casino, I'd certainly let an idiot do this. Looks like he waved off hitting his 12 v 7, despite so many Ts already being out. A smart player would surrender that hand :rolleyes:
 
KewlJ

KewlJ

Well-Known Member
#6
#6
21forme said:
If this were my casino, I'd certainly let an idiot do this. Looks like he waved off hitting his 12 v 7, despite so many Ts already being out. A smart player would surrender that hand :rolleyes:
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I didn't even realize the dealer had a 7 up. I just assumed it was a 5 or 6. You can see the pips well enough to know it is a 7. :rolleyes:

Now, sombody on BJTF, mentioned that in the comments on youtube, it says, it was a new dealer and not supposed to allow that many splits and that they eventually backed the cards up and took away some/most of those splits. :oops: I don't know where this was (can't read the name on table), but I don't think that would be legal in any of the jurisdictions that I play. It is my understanding that if the player puts the bet out and the dealer deals the cards, that is acceptance of the bet. I don't think you can legally go back and start backing up cards and not accepting the bet after it has been accepted and played. :oops:

Perhaps some pit critter might have tried, but it shouldn't have been legal.
 
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21forme

Well-Known Member
#7
#7
KewlJ said:
You can see the pips well enough to know it is a 7.
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Guess that comes with experience beyond counting and also being able to count down two tables at the same time (but we both know THAT'S not possible :). However, I'm probably one of the worst HCers I know in terms of reading the cards.

KewlJ said:
It is my understanding that if the player puts the bet out and the dealer deals the cards, that is acceptance of the bet. I don't think you can legally go back and start backing up cards and not accepting the bet after it has been accepted and played.
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I'm not sure. If the dealer's move violated house rules, I think they'd be within their rights to void the play. For example, suppose your playing a D9 game and you push out a double on an A8 v 6 and draw a 2. Dealer finishes with 17 and pays you. Critter comes along and says the player's total is 11 and loses, as you can double a 9, but not a 19. This actually happened in Reno 15-20 years ago. Player appealed to Gaming and Gaming said the casino was correct in that a legal double would mean the A was declared a 1, not 11.
 
KewlJ

KewlJ

Well-Known Member
#8
#8
21forme said:
Guess that comes with experience beyond counting and also being able to count down two tables at the same time (but we both know THAT'S not possible :). However, I'm probably one of the worst HCers I know in terms of reading the cards.


I'm not sure. If the dealer's move violated house rules, I think they'd be within their rights to void the play. For example, suppose your playing a D9 game and you push out a double on an A8 v 6 and draw a 2. Dealer finishes with 17 and pays you. Critter comes along and says the player's total is 11 and loses, as you can double a 9, but not a 19. This actually happened in Reno 15-20 years ago. Player appealed to Gaming and Gaming said the casino was correct in that a legal double would mean the A was declared a 1, not 11.
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I am going to let the tracking two tables comment go without comment. ;)

I have had that D9 rule called on me, one time, a while ago. But I don't think that is a good example. That, as described, would fall under a mispay. No different than if you were paid on a losing or pushed hand.

But that is not what this split 10's situation would be. There is no mispay. You made the wager. They accepted the wager. Dealt the cards and you won. I don't think you they can legally go back and not accept the wager after it has been played out.


I also think you are wrong about "violating house rules". House rules are not law. And if the house rules were violated, it was the house that chose to violate them. But again that is not law. Now if there was some sort of state law or perhaps a national law involving another country, and the dealer's actions violated that LAW, perhaps the player would be out of luck. But "house rules", that is not the players responsibility. It is the house's responsibility to adhere to their "rules or policy".

I think here in Nevada if they allowed the player to split all those times in the video, accepted those wagers, played out the hands and then tried to back everything up and take away some hands and not pay wins, gaming would not allow that. I could be wrong but I would be very surprised.

I also think few pit managers would even try.
 
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LC Larry

Well-Known Member
#11
#11
21forme said:
Guess that comes with experience beyond counting....However, I'm probably one of the worst HCers I know in terms of reading the cards.
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The "upside down" 7 has got gotten even the best of the best readers.
 
Zero

Zero

Well-Known Member
#12
#12
KewlJ said:
But what I really want to mention is the quality of the video. It obviously was a surveillance video as it is shot from above and has the table # game stamp on it. That video is not very good quality. They did darken it a bit part way through after several splits (probably the point that surveillance became interested), but even then, was not very good. I could only make out some of the cards by pips. I expected more. I always hear surveillance can read the date off a dime. Didn't appear so at THIS location. :rolleyes:
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Keep in mind you're looking at video (probably) taken by a cell phone in 2011. The camera operator is capturing a video being played back on a security monitor with their own camera. That's why the date, time, and table info appear and disappear in the upper right corner as the camera operator moves the camera or zooms in and out. Even though YT presents the video as 1080, I'm sure the original video was not recorded at that quality. So this video is not an accurate representation of the video quality seen by security personnel.

0
 
J

johndoe

Well-Known Member
#13
#13
Jeez, splitting that much against a 7! I'm curious to see how the hand turned out. I did like his move convincing the dealer to put the hit 10 on his 12 onto the next hand, preventing a bust.

Here's one with 17 split 10's against a 6, I think in Abu Dhabi:

I think those 100AED chips are worth about $27.
 
Zero

Zero

Well-Known Member
#15
#15
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Meistro

Well-Known Member
#17
#17
Dubai Palace (in Cancun) is S17 and uses a CSM. Zero is referencing a different ten splitting video, which is in Mexico but not Cancun.
 
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