Most players play a losing game of blackjack and a full table slows the game down and that players losses so playing at a full table is better for most players. If you are an advantage player playing at a full table is better because it is easier for you to pocket chips and for the dealers and the pit crew have less of an idea of how much you won. A full table also might give you the oportunity for hand interaction plays that give you better advantage.
A Full table is better for most players!
- Thread starter Cardcounter
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The benefits of a full table are not enough to make up for the slower play. For just card counting a full table is NOT better than with only a few players or just yourself. It's nice to be able to easily pocket chips or do hand interaction, but it is MUCH better to play heads up and do without those 2 things.
To a counter, an empty table is better since you get more play per time spent at the table. Since you have the advantage, the more hands you are able to play gets you closer and closer to your EV.
However, to the non card counter, playing at a packed table is better. You get less play for the time you're there, but if you're getting rated for comps the clock still ticks, so you effectively wager less money for the comps you get. Plus if you add things like free drinks into the equation, pretty soon the game is almost +EV when you take into consideration the -.40% you lose if you play perfect BS as well as the $5 Heineken you get every 10 minutes sitting there........
My personal take is this. I don't play enough times per year to worry about counting (nor do I have the bankroll required or the time to invest in learning it). I go to Vegas once a year and Atlantic city probably 3 times. I play for the lowest stakes possible, since I'm a poor college student. I play perfect basic strategy and play at the tables with the best rules I can find. When I figure what my -EV is for playing $5 blackjack for an hour, then look at how much the 3 beers I had over that hour would have cost me at the bar, I end up +EV. Plus, figure in the dealer mistakes that I've profited from and some of the hand interaction plays I've done, and the game isn't all that bad.
However, to the non card counter, playing at a packed table is better. You get less play for the time you're there, but if you're getting rated for comps the clock still ticks, so you effectively wager less money for the comps you get. Plus if you add things like free drinks into the equation, pretty soon the game is almost +EV when you take into consideration the -.40% you lose if you play perfect BS as well as the $5 Heineken you get every 10 minutes sitting there........
My personal take is this. I don't play enough times per year to worry about counting (nor do I have the bankroll required or the time to invest in learning it). I go to Vegas once a year and Atlantic city probably 3 times. I play for the lowest stakes possible, since I'm a poor college student. I play perfect basic strategy and play at the tables with the best rules I can find. When I figure what my -EV is for playing $5 blackjack for an hour, then look at how much the 3 beers I had over that hour would have cost me at the bar, I end up +EV. Plus, figure in the dealer mistakes that I've profited from and some of the hand interaction plays I've done, and the game isn't all that bad.
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You also forgot to mention how annoying it is when the count goes up and the flat-betting ploppies suck up all the good cards and you're getting dealt 15 after 15 and they're getting minimum bet blackjacks to their hearts content.
It's kinda funny that right now I'm actually in the hotel lobby of the casino I just took for a nice sum on a counting forum
Preston said:
You also forgot to mention how annoying it is when the count goes up and the flat-betting ploppies suck up all the good cards and you're getting dealt 15 after 15 and they're getting minimum bet blackjacks to their hearts content.
It's kinda funny that right now I'm actually in the hotel lobby of the casino I just took for a nice sum on a counting forum
It's kinda funny that right now I'm actually in the hotel lobby of the casino I just took for a nice sum on a counting forum
Well if you're just playing to "have fun" why do you need to play for money? If you are getting actual joy out of the game itself and not the rush from gambling then just set up a home blackjack game and play with your friends. If you have to play for money to make it fun, that is called a gambling problem. A lot of people say they are playing just for fun, but they insist on playing for money instead of playing for nothing. It doesn't make sense to me. They just say they are playing for fun to justify their gambling. Whatever.
Well, that's your philosophy...and your criticism of how some people have their fun if it is not addictive just goes to show your ignorance of life. Sorry to say it, but that's what I think. I am a blackjack AP, sure, not a full-time pro...but that's fun to me. You know what else is fun to me? Meeting up with old college friends a couple times a year to shoot craps...a negative expectation game, yup. But fun, hell yeah! You can't re-create that at home.
And if it costs someone $50 here or there, who cares if it is money you can afford for entertainment. Do you go to the movies? Costs money. Do you travel? Costs money. Hell, it costs money on gas for me and the lady to go somewhere to camp and hike. That's life...everything's not +EV. So, if someone wants to play basic strategy and not count, and have fun doing it, why are you hatin'?
Not trying to be an ass, but you got some life to live yet.
good luck
And if it costs someone $50 here or there, who cares if it is money you can afford for entertainment. Do you go to the movies? Costs money. Do you travel? Costs money. Hell, it costs money on gas for me and the lady to go somewhere to camp and hike. That's life...everything's not +EV. So, if someone wants to play basic strategy and not count, and have fun doing it, why are you hatin'?
Not trying to be an ass, but you got some life to live yet.
good luck
That was exactly what I was going to write! Playing the game I play without counting (but taking advantage of other situations), at the limits I play for, costs me much less than a night out for dinner and a movie, or anything else that involves leaving my house to have fun. In fact, like I said before, thusfar it's made me money, but that's just because the variance has been in my favor.
I'm saying people are having fun with the gambling, not the game itself. How often do you play the basic strategy engine on this site? If you really just enjoyed blackjack, it would seem you would play it all the time. I bet you don't. People like to gamble, not play blackjack. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, I'm just telling it like it is. You don't need to make excuses to gamble.
How many times have you and your friends got together to play blackjack at a home game for fun? I'll just assume never. Instead you get together and go to the casino. The only difference is that money is in action at the casino.
I don't play blackjack because it is fun. There are so many things that are more fun than blackjack, and are FREE.
I've heard this from slots people too. They play because it is fun. Well, if slots are so much fun, why dont you just play for free on the internet? My point is most people just use the "fun excuse'' to justify why they are gambling.
Gamble away, I don't care.
How many times have you and your friends got together to play blackjack at a home game for fun? I'll just assume never. Instead you get together and go to the casino. The only difference is that money is in action at the casino.
I don't play blackjack because it is fun. There are so many things that are more fun than blackjack, and are FREE.
I've heard this from slots people too. They play because it is fun. Well, if slots are so much fun, why dont you just play for free on the internet? My point is most people just use the "fun excuse'' to justify why they are gambling.
Gamble away, I don't care.
If it's for fun and not real money, or something else valuable, then it's not gambling. Gambling is playing a game of skill or luck/chance for money or items of some value. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you, I'm just pointing out the flaw in your logic.
There's a huge difference in playing for fun and wagering something on it, and playing for fun and not wagering anything.
There's a huge difference in playing for fun and wagering something on it, and playing for fun and not wagering anything.
That's funny...you said that if one plays for money, then they have a gambling problem. Nice theory. Did you ever stop to think that wagering is fun to people? I also meet up with friends at least once per fall in Vegas to spend a Sunday wagering on the NFL. I watch NFL every other week without wagering and enjoy it rediculously...but there is fun in wagering on it. Hell, a guy or two in the group don't even really play anything else while we are out there...but enjoy drinking and being with us all.
Scott, I think you have a very warped reality of this whole "gambling" thing. Do I play blackjack at home with friends? No. It's not as much fun because there is nothing on the line. I've never played the BS engine on this site...play? It's a shame that you don't enjoy blackjack, because it is a game.
Why do insist that people have to have a reason other than fun to gamble or wager? Yeah, there are many people addicted to the sensation of wagering...as there are those addicted to smokes, booze, sex, whatever. But can a person do any of those without "having" to do it? Of freaking course.
So, we all have our opinions, but just because YOU study counting and practice on the computer with the hope some day that you make money doing it for a living...don't think that every other non-expert is a degenerate.
good luck
Scott, I think you have a very warped reality of this whole "gambling" thing. Do I play blackjack at home with friends? No. It's not as much fun because there is nothing on the line. I've never played the BS engine on this site...play? It's a shame that you don't enjoy blackjack, because it is a game.
Why do insist that people have to have a reason other than fun to gamble or wager? Yeah, there are many people addicted to the sensation of wagering...as there are those addicted to smokes, booze, sex, whatever. But can a person do any of those without "having" to do it? Of freaking course.
So, we all have our opinions, but just because YOU study counting and practice on the computer with the hope some day that you make money doing it for a living...don't think that every other non-expert is a degenerate.
good luck
You people are still missing my point. If someone thinks the game is fun playing for money (not counting), but doesnt think its fun to NOT play for money, then they are only getting a rush out of the gamble. But instead of admitting that they are having fun gambling, they say they are having fun playing the game so they can rationalize gambling.
I never said anyone here is a degenerate because they gamble.
CheffJJ, I do not really treat the actual play of blackjack to be a game. I'm just like a machine making automatic, pre-decided moves. It's nothing special or exciting because I am not doing anything than anyone else would. However, the fun part is disguising that you are good, and getting satisfaction that the casino is paying you to play. That is fun, not the actual game itself. So, the things involved in advantage play blackjack is fun, not the game in and of itself. See what I'm saying?
My posts are pretty controversial, I should go into hiding for longer than a week this time!
I never said anyone here is a degenerate because they gamble.
CheffJJ, I do not really treat the actual play of blackjack to be a game. I'm just like a machine making automatic, pre-decided moves. It's nothing special or exciting because I am not doing anything than anyone else would. However, the fun part is disguising that you are good, and getting satisfaction that the casino is paying you to play. That is fun, not the actual game itself. So, the things involved in advantage play blackjack is fun, not the game in and of itself. See what I'm saying?
My posts are pretty controversial, I should go into hiding for longer than a week this time!
Well, that is true. If you have to have money on the line to make it fun, you're just a gambler. I stand by that comment. If you only have fun when something is at stake, you're enjoying the gamble, not the game.
But, no, being a gambler and being a degenerate are completely different. You can gamble responsibly just like with anything else. If you have one drink per week you aren't considered an alcoholic, so if you can control your gambling, you are not a degenerate gambler.
But, no, being a gambler and being a degenerate are completely different. You can gamble responsibly just like with anything else. If you have one drink per week you aren't considered an alcoholic, so if you can control your gambling, you are not a degenerate gambler.