barred from the wsop

O

O0Brian0O

New Member
#1
#1
newbie here so bear with me.

i am a professional poker player who plays mostly cash games, but went to vegas for a week to play a few WSOP events. i picked up a blackjack book and read it on the plane and practiced on my iphone app ( what i mean is that it's likely i'm barely even competent enough at counting to be +EV ). i played one session at the rio for about an hour, attempting to count and doing a poor job i thought, i lost all my money and left. a week later when i had some time to kill waiting for a friend to finish up in a cash game i sat down and played again. i guess i wasn't a very discreet player, but i never bet more than 4 times the minimum. 15 minutes later i was approached and 86'd from all harrahs properties including the WSOP. i guess i assumed they would just ask me not to play blackjack any more, it seemed a little abrupt, but harrahs sucks so i shouldn't be surprised.

i guess my question is has anyone had any success in having these barrings reversed for the WSOP only. i honestly don't care if i never play another hand of blackjack at a harrahs property, or even enter them, but i don't know what steps to take to even attempt this. i just want to be able to play the main event in future years.

thanks for the help.
 
Jack_Black

Jack_Black

Well-Known Member
#2
#2
never heard of a barring to include poker, especially if you were playing table games at low stakes. they usually tell you to go play poker instead of BJ. I betcha that guy who 86'ed you was talking out of his ass, as they usually do. besides, how would they know who you are? unless you're Phil Ivey, (or hopefully for me, vanessa rousso!) how would they stop you? UNLESS! you spilled the beans on everything about you when you got the boot. i.e. gave them your ID/players card and told them you actually play more poker than BJ, and that you mainly play WSOP. but still whatev, is this lowly boss from Rio vegas gonna send a company/worldwide memo that XXXXX is not allowed to play WSOP anywhere on the planet?
 
Lonesome Gambler

Lonesome Gambler

Well-Known Member
#3
#3
If you were actually barred (read the trespass act, not just told that you weren't welcome), you're screwed. Not just because you're officially trespassed, but because the Rio would have a claim against paying you if you money in the tournament. You should call the office of the tournament director ASAP. Good luck!
 
M

MeWin$

Well-Known Member
#4
#4
Jack_Black said:
never heard of a barring to include poker, especially if you were playing table games at low stakes. they usually tell you to go play poker instead of BJ. I betcha that guy who 86'ed you was talking out of his ass, as they usually do. besides, how would they know who you are? unless you're Phil Ivey, (or hopefully for me, vanessa rousso!) how would they stop you? UNLESS! you spilled the beans on everything about you when you got the boot. i.e. gave them your ID/players card and told them you actually play more poker than BJ, and that you mainly play WSOP. but still whatev, is this lowly boss from Rio vegas gonna send a company/worldwide memo that XXXXX is not allowed to play WSOP anywhere on the planet?
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Agree all. Plus if ur serious about getting back in, pump some money through the slots and get a email invite mailer, thus legally negating the trespass (im not a lawyer though, perhaps someone else can chime in.)
 
Sharky

Sharky

Well-Known Member
#5
#5
short of being caught cheating at poker, why on earth would a casino ever bar a poker player??? it's +ev for them...more players = more money for them, guaranteed...makes no sense
 
Lonesome Gambler

Lonesome Gambler

Well-Known Member
#6
#6
MeWin$ said:
Agree all. Plus if ur serious about getting back in, pump some money through the slots and get a email invite mailer, thus legally negating the trespass (im not a lawyer though, perhaps someone else can chime in.)
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The WSOP is next week, no? And receiving mail from the marketing department does not invalidate a trespass/86. And as to the last post, they didn't bar a poker player—they barred a suspected counter.
 
A

alwayssplitaces

Well-Known Member
#7
#7
Did you use the iPhone app at the table to count cards for you?

I'm backed off blackjack at a store in PA but I go there all the time to play poker. I still get comps from my poker play.

I think the OP is a troll.
 
Lonesome Gambler

Lonesome Gambler

Well-Known Member
#8
#8
Why would the OP be a troll? And you realize a barring is not the same as a backoff, right? Even if he made it onto the property, signed in, and played the tourney, what happens when he cashes and Harrah's informs him that he's been trespassed at their properties and thus, is not entitled to his prize? What if you're 86'd at a casino and you hit a slot jackpot? Do you feel confident that you'll get paid?
 
Craps Master

Craps Master

Well-Known Member
#9
#9
Man, you guys are such clowns. OP is not a troll. Just do a Google search on his handle and you'll see he's a poker player, just as he claims. He apparently uses the same handle everywhere.

Anyway, OP, you're basically screwed. I know a few other people who have been barred at the Rio and have tried to play WSOP events, with the result being they were thrown out again and had to forfeit their tourney entry (they were forced to leave the property with their chips remaining on the table). Since you're not actually a professional blackjack player, you can take risks that blackjack players could not, and contact casino management to try to work something out. You could also seek legal advice from a lawyer who has dealt with cases like this, such as Bob Nersesian in Vegas.

I think there is some question as to the validity of your barring from other Harrah's properties, but you're definitely not allowed on the property at the Rio (though if you receive any subsequent invitations or promotions by mail, you are legally allowed to play there again).

You seem to be the victim of a huge overreaction on the part of the management. If you can somehow convince them of that, they may reduce your barring to a back-off and allow you to play poker at the Rio again. But, this is going to involve a lot of red tape for you, so I hope it's worth it.
 
1

1357111317

Well-Known Member
#11
#11
Well there is 3 2p2 folk on here, Brians 2p2 name is easy to figure out, now onto craps master... haha just kidding man.

As for your barring, you never bet more than 4x the min? That makes me wonder about your 86'ing. Unless you were min betting 100 i highly doubt anyone would ever have any reason to look at you.
 
A

alwayssplitaces

Well-Known Member
#12
#12
Whoops, sorry to rush to conclusions. It just seemed fishy for a Harrah's property to BAR someone who isn't even that good at counting cards on their first day playing at low stakes and only spreading 1-4, which is barely enough to beat the El Cortez single deck. Most of the blackjack I saw at Rio is the 6-5 8D tourist trap. I've been playing 15-200 at a Harrah's property for 8 months, and am still welcomed even though I have a net win.

Perhaps you can just explain that you're a successful poker player and you just bought a blackjack book, and promise to never play blackjack at a Harrah's property again.
 
T

The Chaperone

Well-Known Member
#13
#13
alwayssplitaces said:
Whoops, sorry to rush to conclusions. It just seemed fishy for a Harrah's property to BAR someone who isn't even that good at counting cards on their first day playing at low stakes and only spreading 1-4, which is barely enough to beat the El Cortez single deck. Most of the blackjack I saw at Rio is the 6-5 8D tourist trap. I've been playing 15-200 at a Harrah's property for 8 months, and am still welcomed even though I have a net win.

Perhaps you can just explain that you're a successful poker player and you just bought a blackjack book, and promise to never play blackjack at a Harrah's property again.
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You have seriously underestimated the stupidity of Harrah's props. OP is obviously not a troll.
 
O

O0Brian0O

New Member
#14
#14
Craps Master said:
Man, you guys are such clowns. OP is not a troll. Just do a Google search on his handle and you'll see he's a poker player, just as he claims. He apparently uses the same handle everywhere.

Anyway, OP, you're basically screwed. I know a few other people who have been barred at the Rio and have tried to play WSOP events, with the result being they were thrown out again and had to forfeit their tourney entry (they were forced to leave the property with their chips remaining on the table). Since you're not actually a professional blackjack player, you can take risks that blackjack players could not, and contact casino management to try to work something out. You could also seek legal advice from a lawyer who has dealt with cases like this, such as Bob Nersesian in Vegas.

I think there is some question as to the validity of your barring from other Harrah's properties, but you're definitely not allowed on the property at the Rio (though if you receive any subsequent invitations or promotions by mail, you are legally allowed to play there again).

You seem to be the victim of a huge overreaction on the part of the management. If you can somehow convince them of that, they may reduce your barring to a back-off and allow you to play poker at the Rio again. But, this is going to involve a lot of red tape for you, so I hope it's worth it.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info. I have always been a cash game player, so the effect on me isn't tragic, and with the recent online poker happenings I am actually planning to go back into the job market, so I will probably just write a few letters and hope to be able to go back in future years. I had to empty my safety deposit box at the wsop when I was trespassed so I talked to one of the security guards for a while. He said the only way to reverse the trespass was to write a a physical letter to Bob Flynn explaining my situation. When I looked up who that was I learned he is the VP of Security for all of Harrahs? Which basically means no one will ever read my letter I assume. I don't know if there is anyone else I should contact first, and it seems impossible to find email addresses or phone numbers of anyone in the security department for Harrahs online. My best bet may just be to contact a Las Vegas lawyer who is familiar with all this stuff, maybe I'll give Bob Nersesian a try, thank you for your help.

And yes, I still have a fair amount of money on FTP, but I hope the recent news of FTP being sold means payouts will happen eventually.
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
#15
#15
O0Brian0O said:
i guess my question is has anyone had any success in having these barrings reversed for the WSOP only. i honestly don't care if i never play another hand of blackjack at a harrahs property, or even enter them, but i don't know what steps to take to even attempt this. i just want to be able to play the main event in future years.
Click to expand...
You should be okay, just steer clear of the BJ games. zg
 
FLASH1296

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
#16
#16
If they stated that you were barred from the WSOP, then you cannot rationally risk playing in a WSOP event.

Although you will probably be permitted to play; when they have to pay you off, if you cash, they have the right to refuse payment !
 
Gamblor

Gamblor

Well-Known Member
#17
#17
OP doesn't Andy Bloch play in the WSOP? Not sure why he would be allowed to play and not you. Maybe asking him would be worthwhile, would imagine he's someone you might possibly know or have had run ins with before ;)
 
Y

Youk

Active Member
#18
#18
Gamblor said:
OP doesn't Andy Bloch play in the WSOP? Not sure why he would be allowed to play and not you. Maybe asking him would be worthwhile, would imagine he's someone you might possibly know or have had run ins with before ;)
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This is exactly what I was thinking. Andy Bloch has been banned from playing BJ at Harrah's, but can still play WSOP tourneys. Figure out what he did.

For those who don't know, you must use a Total Rewards card to play any WSOP tourneys.

Truly pathetic that they 86 you for spreading 1-4. I have also been 86'ed (no backoff, an 86 on the first shot) at a Harrah's property for spreading 1-4 green, playing less than half an hour. Fortunately, it happened when I was playing under an alias.
 
B

bigplayer

Well-Known Member
#19
#19
Lonesome Gambler said:
The WSOP is next week, no? And receiving mail from the marketing department does not invalidate a trespass/86. And as to the last post, they didn't bar a poker player—they barred a suspected counter.
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Harrah's requires a Total Rewards card for all WSOP entrants. If you want to register for the tournament they will swipe your TR card and see any derogatory comments.

See a manager...tell them your story and promise never to go near a BJ table again and they'll probably rescind the trespassing.
 
S

Sucker

Well-Known Member
#20
#20
Courts have ruled that if a person is trespassed at one property, he does NOT have the burden of checking to see who owns OTHER buildings that he may wish to enter. Harrah's pulls this BS all the time. This barring is LEGAL for the Rio only. Anything else is nothing more than intimidation.

Also: If they actually ALLOW you to play, and you cash; there's no way that they can refuse to pay up.
 
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