How Fast Can You Count?
- Thread starter Jack Black 23
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Rebecca is right! Its not gthe size of gthe dynamite but the length of the fuse that is important. Its not how fast you count but how well you manage your money that matters. You caqn be slow at counting but be mnoire accusrate calculating True Counts, bet sizing, when to deviate and more. If counting fast was all that matters then why would anyone select 2-3 level counts and side counts when they play?
I can count faster than any dealer can deal. One time I started getting heat though and they brought in a very fast dealer.
I mean, aggressively fast. I honestly didn't know it was possible to deal this fast. I could keep count but barely and I think I may have even made a few mistakes. I just left at that point. Which is best to do before a back off.
To give you an idea of how fast he was dealing: it was probably possible to get in over 500 hands an hour against him. (faster than online BJ) if you were playing heads up.
I honestly should have told him to slow the hell down to be honest. It was aggressively fast. 99% of dealers couldn't deal that fast if they wanted to.
I mean, aggressively fast. I honestly didn't know it was possible to deal this fast. I could keep count but barely and I think I may have even made a few mistakes. I just left at that point. Which is best to do before a back off.
To give you an idea of how fast he was dealing: it was probably possible to get in over 500 hands an hour against him. (faster than online BJ) if you were playing heads up.
I honestly should have told him to slow the hell down to be honest. It was aggressively fast. 99% of dealers couldn't deal that fast if they wanted to.
Yeah, I know. Trust me I know but the guy would lift his hole card and draw his cards so quickly it was just insane. Especially when he was hitting soft totals then just blitzing out 5 cards right away then scooping the cards up right away.
Like I said it was incredible aggressive. At the time I was playing I could count down a deck in about 15 seconds too.
Oh, and let me not forget that if I hit and got 18 or 20 he would just flip his hole card without my action and then just blitz out the rest of the hand and a half second later it seemed like the hand was over after he drew 5 cards.
Like I said it was incredible aggressive. At the time I was playing I could count down a deck in about 15 seconds too.
Oh, and let me not forget that if I hit and got 18 or 20 he would just flip his hole card without my action and then just blitz out the rest of the hand and a half second later it seemed like the hand was over after he drew 5 cards.
I don't play heads up that often. Unlike most counters, I prefer 1, maybe 2 other players for a several reasons. When I do play heads up, I like to set a nice rapid pace. Get through the deck(s) and get to that shoe where their is a nice juicy count and then get out quickly.
Occasionally, not often, but occasionally, I run into a dealer sort of being a dick about the speed thing. They try to go too fast, faster than they can or should deal, in an attempt throw me off. When that happens, I like to turn the tables and intentionally slow them down. It really can annoy them and actually throw them for a loop, to the point they become even sloppier than when they were going faster.
While usually I do this 'slow down' action out of spite, there is a practical side to it. When a dealer is trying to go too fast, they usually start "assuming" my plays, which I don't want. When I finally hit that max bet count that I am looking for, and am doubling and splitting more aggressively, I don't want the dealer, flying past me, assuming I am staying or hitting when I want to double or split. And the last thing I want is any kind of controversy in this area, where the pit has to be called over and explained anything. Not when I am sitting there "exposed" with my max bet out.
Occasionally, not often, but occasionally, I run into a dealer sort of being a dick about the speed thing. They try to go too fast, faster than they can or should deal, in an attempt throw me off. When that happens, I like to turn the tables and intentionally slow them down. It really can annoy them and actually throw them for a loop, to the point they become even sloppier than when they were going faster.
While usually I do this 'slow down' action out of spite, there is a practical side to it. When a dealer is trying to go too fast, they usually start "assuming" my plays, which I don't want. When I finally hit that max bet count that I am looking for, and am doubling and splitting more aggressively, I don't want the dealer, flying past me, assuming I am staying or hitting when I want to double or split.
And the last thing I want is any kind of controversy in this area, where the pit has to be called over and explained anything. Not when I am sitting there "exposed" with my max bet out.
KewlJ said:
I don't play heads up that often. Unlike most counters, I prefer 1, maybe 2 other players for a several reasons. When I do play heads up, I like to set a nice rapid pace. Get through the deck(s) and get to that shoe where their is a nice juicy count and then get out quickly.
Occasionally, not often, but occasionally, I run into a dealer sort of being a dick about the speed thing. They try to go too fast, faster than they can or should deal, in an attempt throw me off. When that happens, I like to turn the tables and intentionally slow them down. It really can annoy them and actually throw them for a loop, to the point they become even sloppier than when they were going faster.
While usually I do this 'slow down' action out of spite, there is a practical side to it. When a dealer is trying to go too fast, they usually start "assuming" my plays, which I don't want. When I finally hit that max bet count that I am looking for, and am doubling and splitting more aggressively, I don't want the dealer, flying past me, assuming I am staying or hitting when I want to double or split. And the last thing I want is any kind of controversy in this area, where the pit has to be called over and explained anything. Not when I am sitting there "exposed" with my max bet out.
Occasionally, not often, but occasionally, I run into a dealer sort of being a dick about the speed thing. They try to go too fast, faster than they can or should deal, in an attempt throw me off. When that happens, I like to turn the tables and intentionally slow them down. It really can annoy them and actually throw them for a loop, to the point they become even sloppier than when they were going faster.
While usually I do this 'slow down' action out of spite, there is a practical side to it. When a dealer is trying to go too fast, they usually start "assuming" my plays, which I don't want. When I finally hit that max bet count that I am looking for, and am doubling and splitting more aggressively, I don't want the dealer, flying past me, assuming I am staying or hitting when I want to double or split.
And the last thing I want is any kind of controversy in this area, where the pit has to be called over and explained anything. Not when I am sitting there "exposed" with my max bet out.
And, to Splittingtens: if you can't count the dealer's hit cards fast enough to keep up with him, you really need to practice more.
Don
Quite the subjects here lately. Progressive betting, when to walk away, intuition, and counting down a deck. And all I used to worry about was someone taking the dealer's break card or the relief dealer burning a card and changing the "flow".
In my opinion counting down a deck is a waste of time. New players go ahead and give it a try. Get it out of your system and concentrate on things that really matter. Does the guy who can count down a deck in 15 seconds make more than the guy who takes 20 seconds? If there are statistics on this I'd like to see them. When someone gives their countdown time they rarely give details such as the count used or the method they use to deal to themselves. It makes a difference. Does the person with the fastest hands have the lowest time?
No mention of accuracy here. Is everyone at 100%? Accuracy trumps speed. That will get you more money. The guy that holds the record at 8 seconds with perfect accuracy says it's nothing more than a parlor trick with no bearing on the bottom line and he's a member of the Blackjack Hall of Fame.
In my opinion counting down a deck is a waste of time. New players go ahead and give it a try. Get it out of your system and concentrate on things that really matter. Does the guy who can count down a deck in 15 seconds make more than the guy who takes 20 seconds? If there are statistics on this I'd like to see them. When someone gives their countdown time they rarely give details such as the count used or the method they use to deal to themselves. It makes a difference. Does the person with the fastest hands have the lowest time?
No mention of accuracy here. Is everyone at 100%? Accuracy trumps speed. That will get you more money. The guy that holds the record at 8 seconds with perfect accuracy says it's nothing more than a parlor trick with no bearing on the bottom line and he's a member of the Blackjack Hall of Fame.
Although I didn't say it in this thread, I have been saying counting down a deck has no meaning for years. There may be a small amount of value as a drill for a newer player, but the important part would be accuracy, not speed. Other than that, it is irrelevant. I think calling it a parlor trick is fair. I have done that drill exactly once, several years ago, and only because I was urged to by Zengrifter. My time was pedestrian some where in the mid/late 20 second range...I don't even remember.
I suppose I could have improved that time if I worked at it, but it really is meaningless. Counting down a deck is NOT representative of the way I count. I DON"T count each card as seen. I use the cancelation method, which allows me to look away, paying attention to other things that matter, the pit, the table next door (I often track two tables), people lurking behind me. I usually 'glance' at the table when everyone has their cards and pick up the count in a fraction of a second.
Perhaps the only time I count, as each card hits the felt is when I am playing heads up as there are no other players to use the cancelation method, which works best with multiple players. So, I am probably at my slowest playing heads up, because it more closely resemble counting down a deck. But my slowest is more than fast enough for me to control the dealer and speed of the game. I thought that was the really important part of this thread....that the player controls the speed of the game, not he dealer.
I suppose I could have improved that time if I worked at it, but it really is meaningless. Counting down a deck is NOT representative of the way I count. I DON"T count each card as seen. I use the cancelation method, which allows me to look away, paying attention to other things that matter, the pit, the table next door (I often track two tables), people lurking behind me. I usually 'glance' at the table when everyone has their cards and pick up the count in a fraction of a second.
Perhaps the only time I count, as each card hits the felt is when I am playing heads up as there are no other players to use the cancelation method, which works best with multiple players. So, I am probably at my slowest playing heads up, because it more closely resemble counting down a deck. But my slowest is more than fast enough for me to control the dealer and speed of the game. I thought that was the really important part of this thread....that the player controls the speed of the game, not he dealer.
There seems to be a lot of attitude that everything is a 'pissing contest' on these blackjack AP sites. This site less than others. But in general it's "I can count down a deck in 12 seconds"...."well I can do it in 8". "I play a level 2 count with 2 side counts"...."well I play 200 index plays". Counting down a deck falls right into all that....."I am better than you crap".
I often wonder if some of these "professional forum posters" as 21forme labeled them, realize that the real challenge is to make money and the real competition isn't between players, but between each player and the casino.
But in general it's "I can count down a deck in 12 seconds"...."well I can do it in 8". "I play a level 2 count with 2 side counts"...."well I play 200 index plays". Counting down a deck falls right into all that....."I am better than you crap". I often wonder if some of these "professional forum posters" as 21forme labeled them, realize that the real challenge is to make money and the real competition isn't between players, but between each player and the casino.
KewlJ said:
There seems to be a lot of attitude that everything is a 'pissing contest' on these blackjack AP sites. This site less than others. But in general it's "I can count down a deck in 12 seconds"...."well I can do it in 8". "I play a level 2 count with 2 side counts"...."well I play 200 index plays". Counting down a deck falls right into all that....."I am better than you crap".
I often wonder if some of these "professional forum posters" as 21forme labeled them, realize that the real challenge is to make money and the real competition isn't between players, but between each player and the casino.
But in general it's "I can count down a deck in 12 seconds"...."well I can do it in 8". "I play a level 2 count with 2 side counts"...."well I play 200 index plays". Counting down a deck falls right into all that....."I am better than you crap". I often wonder if some of these "professional forum posters" as 21forme labeled them, realize that the real challenge is to make money and the real competition isn't between players, but between each player and the casino.
KewlJ said:
When a dealer is trying to go too fast, they usually start "assuming" my plays, which I don't want. When I finally hit that max bet count that I am looking for, and am doubling and splitting more aggressively, I don't want the dealer, flying past me, assuming I am staying or hitting when I want to double or split. And the last thing I want is any kind of controversy in this area, where the pit has to be called over and explained anything. Not when I am sitting there "exposed" with my max bet out.
And the last thing I want is any kind of controversy in this area, where the pit has to be called over and explained anything. Not when I am sitting there "exposed" with my max bet out.
I couldn't care less if the dealer gets pissed off. He probably woke up pissed off. I'm not about to lose a max bet double down opportunity because some dealer who most likely doesn't know basic strategy thinks I should stay on A,7. The procedures are very clear. The dealer cannot do anything until a hand signal is made by the player.
If the dealer must know, I say I have a basic strategy card but sometimes play my gut. I may or may not hit 12 vs 2 or 3 and I may split tens if I "feel" it. That can sometimes cover index play and I'm usually gone before they figure it out.
I love the reaction when a player joins the table and asks if everyone plays "right". Priceless!
If the dealer must know, I say I have a basic strategy card but sometimes play my gut. I may or may not hit 12 vs 2 or 3 and I may split tens if I "feel" it. That can sometimes cover index play and I'm usually gone before they figure it out.
I love the reaction when a player joins the table and asks if everyone plays "right". Priceless!