Introduction and Game Eval. (Solved ,bet ramp to slow)

#1
Hello all,
Names Jay. I've read the forum for a long time but this is my first time posting. I've been playing for almost a year but I reevaluated my game in Jan and started over. I figured I should throw my game out there and see what some of the more experienced people in the world have to say about it. I've logged about 70 hours since and am up by about 4.5k (was a lot more until last night). I'm Close to my E.V. My Beginning bankroll was 6,000 and I managed to push that up to 8,600 after some unavoidable expenses and bills.

So the best game offered around me is DD 25$ minimum (1 table with a 15$ min but it's always packed) with around a 40% house edge. No Mid shoe entry. There's Identical games at the surrounding casinos and I've managed to find all the dealers with good pen. and go straight to them.
My min bet is 15 or 25. My maximum at a 6% edge or higher is 200 or 2x150. My ROR is 1.8%

So far I've managed to do well with the exception of one aspect I've noticed weighing down my ev all the time. A LARGE majority of the shoes I've been playing have been going negative or neutral and they have been eating me up. Last night I was playing the BEST game around me, where the dealer was honestly chopping off less than half a deck, and I lost big. It was a heads up situation so I couldn't wong without switching tables out but in reality the count never went too far south. I'm having ploppy thoughts like "Do The ASMs not change the general orientation of the cards?"

In one shoe I was in awe because I got eaten for 800$ while betting the table minimum??! I was thinking this is STRANGE, but then the next two shoes gave me the same deal, neutral or slightly negative counts, Big losses. I gave up on this "Optimal" heads up, deep pen, situation to jump over to a table with other players so that I could wong out of bad counts. More Negative shoes!! And more!!!.....and more!!! At least here I could dodge them. I played for a long time without fear of heat because I knew I hadn't even shown off my spread. What's more annoying about this is that at this store they drop the god damn shoe when they switch dealers. So one did heat up and the new dealer showed up and I had to awkwardly picked up my stack of chips from the felt and leave.

In around 6 hours I probably found 5 or 6 shoes that were positive. No doubles, no splits, no naturals. Only two of them were profitable. I didn't have an edge last night. I was barely spreading, and when I was it wasn't enough to make up for these nasty shoes. -1200 for the night

I do have the option to play 10$ 6D but it always super busy and the game isn't great. There is a beatable side bet but I haven't gotten into that yet.

Any suggestions on my encountering nasty shoes while playing in a generally play all with some wonging out? But also any suggestions on my game in general.

Thanks in advance and it's nice to meet you all.
 
#4
Meistro said:
I assume you mean 0.4% house edge? 6 max bets is a pretty common downswing, however you got there.
Yes I do mean .4% house edge. And I'm just suprised because the down swing didnt even involve large betting. My large bets were positive/ pushes. It was rather a large amount of minimum bets. If I had a way to better neutral or negative counts playing or better yet avoid it in a DD situation I'd be fine.

21forme said:
Are you in the US?
Yes I am in the U.S.
 
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Meistro

Well-Known Member
#6
Midwest Player said:
Your risk of ruin is more like 20% with only an $8,600 bankroll and spreading $25 to $200
Care to back that up with a sim? In case you didn't notice he's not spreading that high until a 6% edge, which is a very high true count. I don't think he pulled the 1.8% figure out of a hat.
 
#7
Midwest Player said:
Your risk of ruin is more like 20% with only an $8,600 bankroll and spreading $25 to $200
No my risk of ruin is 1.8% I have simmed it and this is my optimal spread. You cant pull random numbers out of your head.

Meistro said:
Care to back that up with a sim? In case you didn't notice he's not spreading that high until a 6% edge, which is a very high true count. I don't think he pulled the 1.8% figure out of a hat.
Thanks for backing me up on that. And no I didn't pull it out of a hat. I ran the exact parameters of the tables I play on and my bankroll. This is what it lead me to. I'm not worried about the spread or the ROR, but more the techniques and putting these numbers to use in a casino in the most efficient way. Like I said the biggest drag on my ev rn is these negative shoes playing DD
 

Midwest Player

Well-Known Member
#8
Okay, give the rules of the game you are playing, your bankroll, pen, and betting spread at each true count. I made the assumption he was playing heads up and can't wong out. I assumed it was a double deck h17 game with $25 min.
 
#9
Midwest Player said:
Okay, give the rules of the game you are playing, your bankroll, pen, and betting spread at each true count. I made the assumption he was playing heads up and can't wong out. I assumed it was a double deck h17 game with $25 min.
Ive simmed this situation multiple times already. I'm not worried about my spread in theory. More so my technique and situation for being in a no wonging in game. Real world advice rather than simulations and numbers.
 

Meistro

Well-Known Member
#10
One thing your simulator isn't counting are your expenses. If you are taking money out of your bankroll to live, then your ROR is drastically understated, as the simulator assumes all winnings are going back to the bankroll.

Conclusion : You need a job.
 
#11
Jay217 said:
Ive simmed this situation multiple times already. I'm not worried about my spread in theory. More so my technique and situation for being in a no wonging in game. Real world advice rather than simulations and numbers.
And I say bullshit to this. No way, are you going to get only a 1.8% risk of ruin on a $8,600 bankroll with play all and $25 to $200 spread. Either post a screen shot of the sim, or post the rules of the game and I will run a sim.
 
#12
Midwest Player said:
And I say bullshit to this. No way, are you going to get only a 1.8% risk of ruin on a $8,600 bankroll with play all and $25 to $200 spread. Either post a screen shot of the sim, or post the rules of the game and I will run a sim.
I didnt chose that spread. That's the optimal .5 Kelly from cvcx. Its not play all. Most of the time I can wong, but sometimes I get stuck due to having a dealer with great pen.
 
#13
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That is with the pen set conservatively. I frequently can play with 1.5 decks dealt. Moving any of those numbers around slightly i can easily make it drop down to even 1.2% ror. Honestly I don't know what is accomplished by you believing that this is what my computer says
 
#14
I've only been able to play successful heads up a handful a times. That's why i'm asking if there is a way to make heads up or mostly play all more profitable. Or maybe just hurt less?

Most of the time I wind up having to drop the table and leave (meaning leaving a good dealer) because the shoe goes negative. But I can only do that so many times in one trip before it starts to look odd...
 
#16
Midwest Player said:
How can you have heads up (one player) and still back count one third of the time. You can't back count if nobody is playing.
My mistake I left it on 1 by accident from last time I used the sim. Changing it to 3 doesnt change to ROR.

Meistro said:
One thing your simulator isn't counting are your expenses. If you are taking money out of your bankroll to live, then your ROR is drastically understated, as the simulator assumes all winnings are going back to the bankroll.

Conclusion : You need a job.
I have a job.....thats where the money came from in the first place.
 

BoSox

Well-Known Member
#17
Jay, what good is that spread you are using if you almost never get to see true counts high enough to make those larger top bets you are constantly waiting for?

Okay, you have a job, I hope you intend to add some of your jobs earnings to help build up your bankroll. You are trying to keep a low ROR with a small bankroll you are subsequently paying a steep price for that. I suspect that you are underbetting nice EV opportunities that is making everything much more difficult for you. Either quit for a while and build up your playing money or take on more risk.
 
#18
BoSox said:
Jay, what good is that spread you are using if you almost never get to see true counts high enough to make those larger top bets you are constantly waiting for?

Okay, you have a job, I hope you intend to add some of your jobs earnings to help build up your bankroll. You are trying to keep a low ROR with a small bankroll you are subsequently paying a steep price for that. I suspect that you are underbetting nice EV opportunities that is making everything much more difficult for you. Either quit for a while and build up your playing money or take on more risk.
Thank you for the first constructive comment yet. I guess I could take on more risk. Maybe push it harder in high counts for DD. I'm already coming out of a long break of builidng BR. Might ramp up my spread then switch over to pure back counting on 6D. It just takes SOOO long due to conditions near me. Most casinos I can drive to easily have 4 or less 6D tables and the ploppies swarm them due to low limits.
 
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