Wonging Technique

[jetace]

I'm curious how those that wong/back count use camoflauge. Do you stand by a slot machine acting like you are waiting for someone, or watch a game acting like you are learning for the first time? I'm trying to find new technique's for wonging on 6 deck shoes. Most casinos around me are Indian and don't have more than 5-10 tables.

I appreciate any feedback.

 

[Sonny]

The “casino virgin” routine can work pretty well, but only a few times in a particular casino. You can stand behind the tables and act as though you are amazed by the game. If the dealer asks you if you want to play you can say “Not yet, I’m still getting the hang of it” or “No, it’s cheaper just to watch.” That way if the shoe turns positive you can jump in with “I think I’ve got it now. Let’s give it a try.”

Standing at another game nearby (like craps or 3-card poker) can also give you a chance to watch the blackjack action from a distance without looking obvious. Be sure to look up at the ceiling as well. Sometimes casinos have mirrors on the ceiling so that you can actually watch a game on the other side of the pit. You’ve got your own eye-in-the-sky!

Another good one is what I call the “moving TARGET” player. You walk around the casino very slowly. This may allow you to count 1-2 rounds before reaching a table. You don’t even need to stop to watch if you have good eyesight because you have already counted the shoe as you approached it. If the count is highly negative then start watching the next table down the line, otherwise you can ask the players some sort of stupid question (mention something about “hot” tables, “cold” dealers, “biased” shoes, or some other nonsense) until you are ready to play. That way you look like a typical Patrick/Patterson player, which the casinos love! :gaga: As you Wong out of a negative deck mention something about a “switchback” you missed in “Phase 2.” As much as I hate to say it, you might want to read a Patrick/Patterson book just to learn the inane lingo and irrational mindset of a “system“ player. The pit won't mind you walking around staring at the tables if they think you're looking for full ashtrays. :laugh:

If you have a girlfriend/boyfriend with you then you can pull off the “this is so romantic” routine. Just stand really close to each other while holding hands. Occasionally whisper something in his/her ear. This works great if your partner can also count cards because you can look over each other’s shoulder and whisper “I’m at -3, how about the table behind me?” Even if your partner doesn’t count they will still appreciate the extra attention.

There are plenty of other backcounting tricks, but I’ll leave those up to your imagination.

-Sonny-

 

[sagefr0g]

I'm curious how those that wong/back count use camoflauge. Do you stand by a slot machine acting like you are waiting for someone, or watch a game acting like you are learning for the first time? I'm trying to find new technique's for wonging on 6 deck shoes. Most casinos around me are Indian and don't have more than 5-10 tables.

I appreciate any feedback.

it used to drive me crazy when i needed to wong out of tables at casinos where the tables were over crowded. now i see it as a good thing if the casino allows backline betting. in such circumstances you have a good excuse for standing around the tables as if waiting for a seat. all the time though your counting the pack down so you can plop down a backline bet when the count is good. you want to do it behind a player that is a good basic strategist.

best regards,
mr fr0g

 

[dacium]

The best wong out I we do is this:
we go in pack of 3 and each wong out in turn while only 1 of us bets. We create a huge storm constantly using stupid phrases and proclaiming whenever its gone unlucky or lucky. I usually count myself and simply proclaim that I can feel this one is lucky and we all go in. Sometimes I put on bets on my friends when I know its high and double for them etc even though we all know bs. We swap boxes back and forth like crazy because if you wong out the casinos here technically can give your box to someone else. If people look like they want to sit down we place a bet and remove it just before the dealer deals.

 

[c_st]

The lost art of solo wonging

I'm curious how those that wong/back count use camoflauge. Do you stand by a slot machine acting like you are waiting for someone, or watch a game acting like you are learning for the first time? I'm trying to find new technique's for wonging on 6 deck shoes. Most casinos around me are Indian and don't have more than 5-10 tables.

I appreciate any feedback.

Simple steps to successfully solo wonging:
1. Learn to count at least two tables at once
2. Once one game becomes desirable, use head-fake technique

Example. During the course of your trip, use misdirection as much as possible. Pretend to jump in a negative shoe with cash in your hand and abort by acting like you have cold feet for a few times (using the theory of the boy crying wolf!). Once you are considered a pain in the ass and not a bona fide threat (pit boss or dealer is tired of being cautious about you), get ready to wong for real.

Stand between two or more bj tables. You have to learn to backcount two tables simulataneously and while it's great to have exact RC's for each table, you don't have to exact RC's so long as you are conservative. Let's say you are backcounting table A and table B, and table B is the table you want to wong into. You get all excited about table A, and then pretend to wong table A, but at the last second sit down on table B. If you did this successfully, then you have executed the head-fake techinque because the eye in the sky, the dealers, the pit bosses would be wondering why did you join the second table (table B) when you expressed so much interested in the first table (table A).

If you can't stand behind two tables, sometimes the casinos have mirrors above the tables and you can count by seeing the reflections of the cards.

Good luck!

 

[Sonny]

Excellent post c_st! :1st:

1. Learn to count at least two tables at once

Great point. Counting two tables is an enormous benefit, and it's not that hard if you can see both tables well enough.

2. Once one game becomes desirable, use head-fake technique

I like that! It's like the old pump-fake. Very devious! :devil:

-Sonny-

 

[avs21]

The “casino virgin” routine can work pretty well, but only a few times in a particular casino. You can stand behind the tables and act as though you are amazed by the game. If the dealer asks you if you want to play you can say “Not yet, I’m still getting the hang of it” or “No, it’s cheaper just to watch.” That way if the shoe turns positive you can jump in with “I think I’ve got it now. Let’s give it a try.”

Standing at another game nearby (like craps or 3-card poker) can also give you a chance to watch the blackjack action from a distance without looking obvious. Be sure to look up at the ceiling as well. Sometimes casinos have mirrors on the ceiling so that you can actually watch a game on the other side of the pit. You’ve got your own eye-in-the-sky!

Another good one is what I call the “moving TARGET” player. You walk around the casino very slowly. This may allow you to count 1-2 rounds before reaching a table. You don’t even need to stop to watch if you have good eyesight because you have already counted the shoe as you approached it. If the count is highly negative then start watching the next table down the line, otherwise you can ask the players some sort of stupid question (mention something about “hot” tables, “cold” dealers, “biased” shoes, or some other nonsense) until you are ready to play. That way you look like a typical Patrick/Patterson player, which the casinos love! :gaga: As you Wong out of a negative deck mention something about a “switchback” you missed in “Phase 2.” As much as I hate to say it, you might want to read a Patrick/Patterson book just to learn the inane lingo and irrational mindset of a “system“ player. The pit won't mind you walking around staring at the tables if they think you're looking for full ashtrays. :laugh:

If you have a girlfriend/boyfriend with you then you can pull off the “this is so romantic” routine. Just stand really close to each other while holding hands. Occasionally whisper something in his/her ear. This works great if your partner can also count cards because you can look over each other’s shoulder and whisper “I’m at -3, how about the table behind me?” Even if your partner doesn’t count they will still appreciate the extra attention.

There are plenty of other backcounting tricks, but I’ll leave those up to your imagination.

-Sonny-

Have you ever tried it on a DD game?

 

[Sonny]

Have you ever tried it on a DD game?

Sure, it works just as well. You can often find a positive count more often in DD games as well. In fact, it is about the only way to make some of those Downtown Vegas DD games playable! Sometimes I'll just "Wong through" a casino on my way to another casino.

-Sonny-

 

[rdorange]

Wong DD?

Most DD games are no mid deck entry. Where can you find DD to wong in on?
I was in Vegas about a month ago and couldn't find any! They also do not exist in Biloxi.

 

[avs21]

Most DD games are no mid deck entry. Where can you find DD to wong in on?
I was in Vegas about a month ago and couldn't find any! They also do not exist in Biloxi.

I recently tried a couple times wonging at SD games in Northern Nevada. Never any comments by players one dealer scolded me when I sat out a really negative count.I found out on my last trip wonging out for one hand on SD games to be alot easier than I thought. Barbary coast in LV allows mid deck entry on DD games.

 

[Sonny]

I recently tried a couple times wonging at SD games in Northern Nevada.

Wonging SD games can be much easier (and fun!) because you really only need to watch the first round. If the deck doesn't turn positive right away then you won't get enough profitable hands before the shuffle. That way you don't have to stand around backcounting for very long before finding another table. Also, you can find a fresh shuffle much more often since they are quick and frequent.

-Sonny-

 

[Tom007]

Heat in the casino

Not sure where to post this but what are the signs that the pit is on to you? I have been playing for about a year and just started wonging in and out. I play the same casino about 1 or 2 times a week so I'm sure they know me as a regular. One night I was waiting for the count to go up to 2 {standing behind the players] after about 10 min. ther were about 4 security guys walking around the area. Am I just paranoid? Do they even worry about the $5 tables or just the high stakes?

 

[sagefr0g]

Not sure where to post this but what are the signs that the pit is on to you? I have been playing for about a year and just started wonging in and out. I play the same casino about 1 or 2 times a week so I'm sure they know me as a regular. One night I was waiting for the count to go up to 2 {standing behind the players] after about 10 min. ther were about 4 security guys walking around the area. Am I just paranoid? Do they even worry about the $5 tables or just the high stakes?

they could just as easy recognize what you are up to at a $5 table as one that is higher stakes. i think you should be very careful about this, extremely crafty.
even then they may still make you. i can't explain how but you got to get an act that will play poker with the pits and players minds. and not an act that is obvious you got to really win their hearts and souls. an emmy performance.
think about this you probably been doing an act like i'm talkin bout most of your life. pull out the same bag of tricks you've developed and used with your dear fellow humane beings and use them on the pit. :devil:
i doubt your being paranoid as you truely do need to be cautious especially in a local joint. dance around, bob and weave get in your shots and get out. stop all activity if you feel heat. you'll get the idea. it'll be your own thought and art work unlike how you play which is done according to a fairly rigid game plan.

best regards,
mr fr0g

 

[hopson77]

Here's the one thing I never understood about backcounting. You have to backcount on a brand new shoe, or else you have no idea what the TC is, correct? And ideally, the count has to go up in the first hand or town when backcounting for it to continue to be worth your while to count?

 

[Sonny]

Here's the one thing I never understood about backcounting. You have to backcount on a brand new shoe, or else you have no idea what the TC is, correct?

Not necessarily. You can start backcounting in mid-shoe as long as you adjust your TC to account for the unseen cards:

http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=3197

And ideally, the count has to go up in the first hand or town when backcounting for it to continue to be worth your while to count?

Sometimes the count will drop during the first several hands then jump back up suddenly. I’ll usually watch through the first two decks. If the count isn’t positive by then I will look for another shoe.

-Sonny-

 

[hopson77]

Sonny,

Doesn't that require that the cards you haven't seen roughly equal 0?

 

[Sonny]

Sonny,

Doesn't that require that the cards you haven't seen roughly equal 0?

No, you just pretend that the already dealt (but unseen) cards are still in the shoe. Since you haven't seen them you cannot include them in you TC calculation.

-Sonny-

 

[pawnbroker]

what if you use ko

so if i walk up to a table and start counting,do i just start at my irc and wait for it to get go,or do i have to adjust for the decks delt.again i am using ko.

 

[avs21]

How much less effective is it compared to starting at the begining of shoe?

 

[Sonny]

so if i walk up to a table and start counting,do i just start at my irc and wait for it to get go,or do i have to adjust for the decks delt.again i am using ko.

Start at the IRC and see how things go. You're pretending that it is the top of the shoe even though some of it has already been dealt. Since you haven't counted any cards yet you would start at the IRC and wait for the rest of the shoe to heat up.

The cards in the discard tray technically aren't "discarded" until you’ve counted them. Since you haven’t seen them you should mentally put them back in the shoe. It doesn’t matter how many cards have been dealt, it only matters how many you have counted.

-Sonny-