High roller, low min table ownership.

  • junior_counter

    High roller, low min table ownership.

    Gave in. Waited until the end of a shoe, end of high rollers table play.

    Something I didn’t think I’d do when requested to hold off for a shoe to end. Was backcounting a would be nice table with just one player. Count for entry came, and was requested by the dealer on behalf of the high roller, betting ~$150 base unit, to refrain from playing at this table now. I didn’t ask whether till the shoe ended, or wait until he was done playing at this table completely. Assume it was until the end of the shoe only. Not to make a scene, I agreed and sat out for a while. Count was only increasing. A bit frustrated seeing this opportunity pass, I asked for my players card back that I had handed the dealer when I first sat, said I’m not waiting and will play at another table.

    Prior to this actual situation, I thought I’d have to decline player(s) request not to enter a hard earned backcounted shoe. Well it happened, and being this guy seemed to be a well known regular customer by the casino, I backed off. He seemed like he’d be that type of jacka$$ to make a fuss if someone entered his precious table/shoe. I didn’t want the attention.

    The thing that bothered me, is why did he have to hog up this low min table, when there were plenty of empty tables available in the high roller area, with better rules going with the higher minimum bet he easily met?

    Table was not reserved; he was not counting, and was not shuffle tracking as the table had an ASM.

  • creeping panther

    Junior

    You were very smart to have walked

    CP

  • 21forme

     

    CP – I’m surprised you said that, being the warrior that you are

    In that situation, I’d first ask if it was a NMS table. If the answer is no (which you already knew), I’d reply I’ll wait a few more hands. If the count drops back down, move on. If the count rises, I’d jump in at +2 and bet about the same as Mr. High Roller. If he gets pissed and leaves, all the better.

  • blackjack avenger

    yep

    Quote: 21forme said:
    CP – I’m surprised you said that, being the warrior that you are

    In that situation, I’d first ask if it was a NMS table. If the answer is no (which you already knew), I’d reply I’ll wait a few more hands. If the count drops back down, move on. If the count rises, I’d jump in at +2 and bet about the same as Mr. High Roller. If he gets pissed and leaves, all the better.

    X2

    I would bet $200 on opening hand

  • EmeraldCityBJ

     

    I’d handle this based on where I was playing.

    If it’s a local casino where longevity is important to me, I’ll avoid doing anything which will make a scene or irritate a regular customer or the pit. There will always be another shoe on another day.

    If I’m travelling to a casino I won’t be visiting again in the forseeable future, I’d play anyway with little regard to who gets pissed off. If I’m encumbered with travel expenses and limited playing opportunities on the trip, I’m not going to want to give up the EV for the sake of keeping a ploppy or the pit happy.

  • Meistro

     

    sounds wise to not make a scene. Could attempt a leading statement w/ high roller ‘you don’t mind if I join you, do you dude?’ said w/ high energy and happiness in your voice ‘don’t worry i won’t do anything crazy like doubling on 12!’ might as well enter for minimum at TC 1 since it’s better cover and neutral ev.

  • creeping panther

    21 forme

    Quote: 21forme said:
    CP – I’m surprised you said that, being the warrior that you are

    In that situation, I’d first ask if it was a NMS table. If the answer is no (which you already knew), I’d reply I’ll wait a few more hands. If the count drops back down, move on. If the count rises, I’d jump in at +2 and bet about the same as Mr. High Roller. If he gets pissed and leaves, all the better.

    It is simple, to get respect, show respect, the OP rightly realized this. ( No Warrior needed)

    It also would have been a mistake for the OP to draw unneeded attention to himself that may have led to heat, all for the sake of a moment of greed, and an opportunity that will present itself thousands of times in the future.

    Consider the dealer that asked the OP to delay entry, best not to DISS the dealer, that act can also be very damaging in the near future if you are to continue at this venue.

    As I said, right choice for the OP. Good Man.

    CP

  • aslan

     

    I’m thinking you’re not making a scene if you quietly enter the game after announcing that you will wait a few hands, as 21forme suggested. The other player may make a scene, but I would just quietly sit there and not react to whatever nonsense he decides on. Let HIM draw the attention to himself if he is set on that, not you. No arguments, no justifying remarks, just a bit of annoyance at being treated like you did something wrong. Never lose it.

    I was in a PA casino last week and I stopped to watch some guy betting stacks of blacks on a $25 min table. A security guard gave me the “tap” and asked me to move on, saying this fellow does not like anyone watching his play. Well, I wasn’t going to defy security, but I thought that took the cake. I moved to the next table and observed the same game from that greater distance. BTW, the security guard and his companion security guard remained behind the table doing exactly what they had prevented me from doing. WTH!!??

  • blackjack avenger

    reasonable

    Quote: EmeraldCityBJ said:
    I’d handle this based on where I was playing.

    If it’s a local casino where longevity is important to me, I’ll avoid doing anything which will make a scene or irritate a regular customer or the pit. There will always be another shoe on another day.

    If I’m travelling to a casino I won’t be visiting again in the forseeable future, I’d play anyway with little regard to who gets pissed off. If I’m encumbered with travel expenses and limited playing opportunities on the trip, I’m not going to want to give up the EV for the sake of keeping a ploppy or the pit happy.

    Tend to agree

  • blackjack avenger

    big dog

    By coming in with a big bet you become top dog

    I imagine the other player tipped, perhaps something to consider doing.

  • blackjack avenger

    big dog

    By coming in with a big bet you become top dog

    I imagine the other player tipped, perhaps something to consider doing.

    If one wongs a lot this can be a frequent issue & could get costly.

  • Baberuth

    Politely sell yourself into the game

    You gotta try and sell yourself and get in the game. If you fail, sit it out and you will be thanked by player and dealer. How to try?
    “ I have a history of being lucky for the other payer at the table, so if the cards are wrong, I am ready. If not, I wish you luck.”
    If it works and the count is high, your “being lucky for the other player” may come true and you will be thanked and respected.

    Babe

  • AussiePlayer

     

    Does the store allow ‘back bets’?

  • zengrifter

     

    Quote: creeping panther said:
    You were very smart to have walked

    He should have just gone ahead and played… and/or alternately propositioned the high-roller for some money not to play. zg

  • paymypush

     

    The player had probably been there long enough for the dealer to fill his head with nonsense. In return he was probably tipping for invaluable information about flow of cards etc. I find it curious that the player didn’t speak for himself.

    My decision to play would not be based on the wishes of either of them especially at a low limit table. If I did decide to play and they became hostile, I would leave when the shoe ended or the count went down.

  • kewljason

     

    Wait a minute. Betting $150 a hand makes one a high roller? And one that the casino is going to turn down other players for at that? Even more ->

    I am not a big wong in guy. I prefer to play off the top and wong out aggressively. But, If I was going to go to the trouble of backcounting, I would not pass up the opportunity when it came along. I have never had a dealer ask me not to play. Other players yes, but not the dealer. The dealer should not be turning away any business. If the guy is that big of a high roller, he can request a private table. Short of that it’s fair game.

  • Most Interesting Man

     

    I once back-counted a table where someone was playing heads up 2x 200-300 per hand. They raised the table minimum to keep the riffraff out. When I approached the table they pointed to the higher minimum in hopes it would keep me out. Nope! I pulled out my own big bets. The ploppy didn’t like it and quietly stopped playing until I left. It was perfect. The ploppy eats all the bad cards and I’m left with a great count early in the shoe, heads up, and protected from others entering by the higher table minimum. Thank you ‘Mr. High Roller’!

  • junior_counter

     

    Quote: AussiePlayer said:
    Does the store allow ‘back bets’?

    No, does not allow back bets.

    To kewl. Yeah, not technically a high roller. Compared to me he was. Base bet was ~$150, but flucuated to ~$500 from the little I saw.

    Great experiences and advice posted here.

    Place was not busy. May have been able to dabble w/ some friendly entry remarks and further tested to see how player felt? Wouldn’t have pushed it if the player/dealer took offense. Is a frequented store, and I’m a small fish. At this point in AP play, I don’t have the bankroll to match bigger bettors. In time, approach may change after a feel from experience and bigger bankroll.

    Wondering why dude didn’t play in high roller room w/ better rules. Lucky table, dealer I guess?

    Thanks all. Thanks in advance to any future comments.
    JC.

  • Cardcounter

     

    A $150 to $500 bets makes you a high roller in some smaller casinos especially in the Reno and lake tahoe area. In vegas they could put a $500 bet as the minimum bet but in Reno it is a max bet a lot of places.

    As for the high roller not wanting you to play you should say to him that I want to make some money too. If you want me to sit out than split the profits with me if you win.

The BlackjackInfo Knowledge Base contains over 200,000 messages posted by the BlackjackInfo community.

Posting and replies to the knowledge base are no longer available, but comments and replies are welcomed on the blog.