Table Courtesy Question

  • greenbird

    Table Courtesy Question

    Hey guys,
    New to the forum – just a basic strategy player who enjoys playing blackjack at $10-$25 tables. I enjoy reading the forum and all the stories and opinions on here. I had a quick question about something I have seen a lot of lately and how to handle it?

    I like to play heads-up, just because I prefer to be one on one with the dealer, just a mentality I guess. But if somebody wants to come in mid-shoe and they ask first, I usually tell them they can come in and I don’t mind. Unless it’s really going well. Sometimes they don’t ask, just come in and nothing I can do about it, learned to live with that and take it in stride.

    My question or biggest pet peeve, I guess, is when they ask to come in and I say, sure, come on in, and they proceed to play two and even three spots before me and in addition to the one I’m playing, so it’s now three or four handed after a one-on-one shoe. And they obviously don’t say anything about those intentions before they pull this. It’s frustrating because I have no idea what direction the rest of the shoe will go in nor can I make any significant money playing like that (or lose a sig. amount of money either).

    So my question is what should I say to the next person to do this to me? Should I ask beforehand, how many hands do you plan on playing or is that none of my business? Or do I ask them politely to play one hand? Or should it not bother me at all and just play my hand? I just find it to be rude and discourteous.

    Y’all have seen it all and have many experiences, so your thoughts please? Thanks

  • alwayssplitaces

     

    Welcome to Blackjack Info. It really doesn’t matter in the long run how many players are at your table if you’re not counting. As a BS player, you’re going to lose in the long run. Might as well play at a full table and lose less per hour. If you’re coming in on someone playing heads up, it is courteous to ask if you can join. A counter playing heads up will not want others playing because they make more money playing more hands per hour.

    As for us counters, if I’m backcounting a table where someone’s playing heads up and the count goes high, I am wonging in (joining the table) and playing 2 hands. We’re here for profit, entertainment isn’t our priority. But if I see that a heads up player is changing their bets with the count and playing perfect BS+indices, I would back-bet them because that’s better for both of us. If a ploppy (a non-counter) is playing heads up, I will not even ask, I’ll just wong in and play 2 hands.

    You’d actually have a better direction about the remaining cards in the shoe if you can count more cards before you have to act. But additional players would lower your win rate if you’re counting.

  • shadroch

     

    When playing one on one, the dealer will get about 50% of the BJs and win about 50% of the hands.
    When playing with two players and a dealer, the dealer will now get only about 33% of the BJs, yet will still win about 50% of the hands.

    Which of the two conditions would you choose to play?

  • CrazyEddie

     

    Quote: greenbird said:
    Hey guys,

    I like to play heads-up, just because I prefer to be one on one with the dealer, just a mentality I guess. But if somebody wants to come in mid-shoe and they ask first, I usually tell them they can come in and I don’t mind. Unless it’s really going well. Sometimes they don’t ask, just come in and nothing I can do about it, learned to live with that and take it in stride.

    My question or biggest pet peeve, I guess, is when they ask to come in and I say, sure, come on in, and they proceed to play two and even three spots before me and in addition to the one I’m playing, so it’s now three or four handed after a one-on-one shoe. And they obviously don’t say anything about those intentions before they pull this. It’s frustrating because I have no idea what direction the rest of the shoe will go in nor can I make any significant money playing like that (or lose a sig. amount of money either).


    And
    they smoke.

  • HockeXpert

     

    Quote: greenbird said:
    My question or biggest pet peeve, I guess, is when they ask to come in and I say, sure, come on in, and they proceed to play two and even three spots before me and in addition to the one I’m playing, so it’s now three or four handed after a one-on-one shoe.

    So my question is what should I say to the next person to do this to me? Should I ask beforehand, how many hands do you plan on playing or is that none of my business? Or do I ask them politely to play one hand? Or should it not bother me at all and just play my hand? I just find it to be rude and discourteous.

    Try “Thank you for saving me from losing money so fast”.

  • Sucker

     

    Quote: greenbird said:
    ? Should I ask beforehand, how many hands do you plan on playing or is that none of my business? Or do I ask them politely to play one hand? Or should it not bother me at all and just play my hand? I just find it to be rude and discourteous.

    If a blackjack table does not have the “no midshoe-entry” rule, everyone has the RIGHT to come in at any time. If someone ASKS you if you mind; that fact alone shows that they are NOT rude OR discourteous. How are THEY supposed to know that you MEANT that you don’t mind them coming in, but ONLY if they play only one hand?

    That said; when someone asks to come in, I see nothing wrong with a simple polite response of “Sure, but would you mind only playing one spot? I’m a little bit superstitious”.

  • Zach Black

    Table Courtesy

    Table courtsey I’ve encountered lately includes smokers sitting down on both sides and shoving cigarettes in my face from both directions, people yelling about my crazy plays then accuse me of being an idoit.

    So I understand why you like heads up.

    But on the other side if I can tell you’re not counting I won’t ask if you mind if I play. As a counter it’s about getting the money on the table when cards are good, and two hands are better the one.

  • BJgenius007

     

    Quote: CrazyEddie said:

    And
    they smoke.

    And they don’t bathe.

  • MoldedTruths

    You are burying yourself

    As a basic strategy player, the wisest thing you could do is not play, play at home for free or play at charity blackjack events.

    If you feel you must play basic strategy blackjack in a casino, your most advantageous option is to play slow at a crowded table and milk the comps with your players card.

    Why in the world is it attractive to you to play more hands per hour one on one with the dealer and lose at a significantly higher rate per hour?

    This is such a strange mentality to me. Aren’t there better ways to waste money?

  • MoldedTruths

    Correction

    “Most advantageous” should read “least disadvantageous.”

  • rrwoods

     

    I’m surprised you’re getting as much sympathy as you are. As a basic strategy player, you should honestly welcome players with open arms to an empty table as it makes you lose slower. Barring smokers and people who haven’t seen a shower in a week, of course.

  • lovethespaniard

     

    They’re gonna have to pry the Marlboros from my cold dead hands.

    I am a very considerate smoker who is aware of where my smoke goes and am tidy with the ashes. I never blow smoke towards anyone. But I am less and less amused at the haughty theatrics of some people…coughing and waving their hands to clear the air with heavy pissy sighs. It is in a casino, fer chrissakes.

    I miss the old days when people didn’t act like smoke nazis. I think a lot of it is that the simulated cork-looking filter is actually thousands of multi-hued, multi-sized dots that are embedded, mosaiced S’s, E’s and X’s hundreds of times in what is supposed to be subliminal…and people don’t like it that you put “sex” in your mouth in front of them.

    I bet that the smoke nazis love the smell of their own farts, though.

  • Sucker

     

    Let me get this straight – you fill the air with poisonous gases, and then you call your VICTIMS the nazis?

  • tribute

     

    Quote: greenbird said:
    Hey guys,
    So my question is what should I say to the next person to do this to me? Should I ask beforehand, how many hands do you plan on playing or is that none of my business? Or do I ask them politely to play one hand? Or should it not bother me at all and just play my hand? I just find it to be rude and discourteous.

    As already stated, not much you can do besides just tell the player what you prefer. Most players will politely comply. My experience has shown that I am better off with one or two other players at the table, anyway.

  • Blue Efficacy

     

    I liked playing heads up before I learned AP, too.

    Some people gamble for fun, and are willing to pay for it. If he indeed plays BS it is relatively inexpensive entertainment. Don’t judge!

  • Craps Master

     

    Quote: greenbird said:
    So my question is what should I say to the next person to do this to me? Should I ask beforehand, how many hands do you plan on playing or is that none of my business? Or do I ask them politely to play one hand? Or should it not bother me at all and just play my hand? I just find it to be rude and discourteous.

    Y’all have seen it all and have many experiences, so your thoughts please? Thanks

    When they ask if they can jump in, just say, “Yes, but would you mind just playing one hand? Too many hands will change the cards too much.” That should do the trick.

  • lovethespaniard

     

    Quote: Sucker said:
    Let me get this straight – you fill the air with poisonous gases, and then you call your VICTIMS the nazis?

    Do you exhale? Do you drive a car? Every time you start your engine, you create “victims” with your action due to poisonous gasses.

    Driving a car is legal. People do it on streets.

    Smoking tobacco is legal. People do it in casinos.

    Aside from causing the trauma of someone having to smell my cigarette, I’d be hard to convince any other damage has been done by my second hand smoke, so once again, by using the term “victim”, the theatrical rhetorical overkill of anti-tobacco people rears it’s ugly goofy head.

  • Craps Master

     

    Quote: lovethespaniard said:
    Do you exhale? Do you drive a car? Every time you start your engine, you create “victims” with your action due to poisonous gasses.

    Driving a car is legal. People do it on streets.

    Smoking tobacco is legal. People do it in casinos.

    Aside from causing the trauma of someone having to smell my cigarette, I’d be hard to convince any other damage has been done by my second hand smoke, so once again, by using the term “victim”, the theatrical rhetorical overkill of anti-tobacco people rears it’s ugly goofy head.

    The old “two wrongs makes a right” argument.

  • tthree

     

    Quote: lovethespaniard said:
    Do you exhale? Do you drive a car? Every time you start your engine, you create “victims” with your action due to poisonous gasses.

    Driving a car is legal. People do it on streets.

    Smoking tobacco is legal. People do it in casinos.

    Aside from causing the trauma of someone having to smell my cigarette, I’d be hard to convince any other damage has been done by my second hand smoke, so once again, by using the term “victim”, the theatrical rhetorical overkill of anti-tobacco people rears it’s ugly goofy head.

    I used to smoke. I was sick all the time. After I quit I never got sick. The only time I got sick was when I went on vacation with my in-laws. They were all heavy smokers. I finally realized I must be allergic or something. A good dose of second hand smoke and I get a reaction just like hay fever. I really don’t care if people smoke I just don’t want to breath it. Outside I can always move upwind. In a casino the “breeze” usually seems to blows into the pit. As long as a smoker is conscientious and makes an effort to keep the smoke away I will gladly suffer through some errant smoke. If it gets to bad I can leave but that is rarely necessary. I do like all the smoke free areas though. The first thing I do when I sit down is ask the dealer if it can be a smoke free table. Since they usually get the worst of it they really appreciate it. They want me to play at their table and have been known to cut skinny to entice me to play at their table. Keep smoking, I can use any advantage I can get.

  • jaygruden

     

    Quote: lovethespaniard said:
    Do you exhale? Do you drive a car? Every time you start your engine, you create “victims” with your action due to poisonous gasses.

    Driving a car is legal. People do it on streets.

    Smoking tobacco is legal. People do it in casinos.

    Aside from causing the trauma of someone having to smell my cigarette, I’d be hard to convince any other damage has been done by my second hand smoke, so once again, by using the term “victim”, the theatrical rhetorical overkill of anti-tobacco people rears it’s ugly goofy head.

    I use smoke-less tobacco so I don’t judge anyone who smokes…but I have been told this many times at many casinos…..”You are not allowed to chew tobacco in here.” When I ask why, they tell me that the spit is considered a “bio-hazard” and they can’t have it in the casino. It is amazing to me that the casino will allow fire sticks in the casino and allow people to blow smoke in my face and in the face of other patrons and employees but they won’t let me chew tobacco and spit in a bottle that I keep beneath the table and keep a cap on it so there is no chance it will spill or get on the table or floor.

    This strikes me as extremely odd. I know that smokeless tobacco is no less dangerous to me than cigarettes are dangerous to smokers……the difference is that I am only hurting myself while smokers are hurting themselves AND everyone else within the secondhand smoke range. I don’t spit in anyone elses mouth but they can blow smoke into my breathing area. What sense does this make? Before I became an AP, when I was told I was not allowed to chew, I blatantly refused to stop. I dared them to throw me out for doing it and no one ever did. I said that if you throw me out for chewing I could bring a discrimination lawsuit against them. If you want to have a “tobacco free” casino then it would have to include all tobacco products, not just chew/snuff……Now I just hide it because I don’t want to attract any attention to myself.

    Now that I think about it, I should have threatened a discrimination lawsuit when I got BO’d for Counting. If you are not going to allow card counting in a casino then you should not allow any type of counting. Everyone who counts their chips should be kicked out. Kickout those who are counting their money upon buy-in, and do not allow people to count the card value of their hand. Only the dealer should be allowed to count the value of your hand and count the chips they give you. We should trust that they are counting correctly.

  • Zach Black

     

    I’ve recently upgraded my plan of attack to include protective equipment which will allow me to work through high true counts when ploppy or AP smoke counter-measures are being applied…

    Please don’t wong-in to my table if you see me in action.

  • Sucker

     

    I personally have no problem with people exercising their right to smoke in a casino. I was simply responding to an arrogant post in which the poster, after claiming to be a “considerate” smoker; proceeded to lambaste every person who has ever coughed when someone’s cigarette smoke went into their face.

    Yes, driving a car is legal. Yes, every time you start your car you put poisonous gases into the air. Air pollution sickens and KILLS thousands of people every year. But to act as though it’s THEIR fault because they don’t WANT to die??? And then to insult them with that stupid “fart” statement??? How do you EXPECT a fair-minded person to react?

  • Sucker

     

    Hey Zach – that gas mask looks EXACTLY like your dog!

  • Automatic Monkey

     

    Quote: Sucker said:
    Let me get this straight – you fill the air with poisonous gases, and then you call your VICTIMS the nazis?

    We all fill the air with poisonous gases. The word “poison” cannot be used in a scientific context without additional information on the concentration and the dose. A cigarette smoker is poisoning himself, at least for a short period of time, but he is not poisoning me by sitting at my table. It smells bad, that’s all. And he might think I stink too.

  • Blue Efficacy

     

    Before I quit smoking, i made sure to light up whenever it looked like somebody wanted to sit next to me in a plus count.

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