Attacking 6:5 for fun (and profit?)

  • jopke

    Attacking 6:5 for fun (and profit?)

    I was thinking it would be kind of fun to try attacking a 6:5 game. I’d be playing a small unit and doing it more for the challenge than anything.

    Any advice? I use TKO, which I know isn’t ideal for single deck, but oh well…

    Can a very aggressive spread beat it? Spreading from 1 to 2×40 would crush, right?

    How much does the lower BJ payoff devalue aces? Sequencing is still worthwhile, right?

    I play primarily shoe games and 2D where I can get good pen. I’ve only played single deck when a casino was running a deal where they payed 2-1 on naturals during certain time periods, which applied to the 6:5 games as well. (That was a ton of fun, I flat be 3x$100 and made a killing.)

  • White Guy

    Don’t Do It

    I have some advice:

    Don’t Do It.

  • zengrifter

     

    Quote: jopke said:
    Can a very aggressive spread beat it? Spreading from 1 to 2×40 would crush, right?

    Yes.

    Quote:
    How much does the lower BJ payoff devalue aces? Sequencing is still worthwhile, right?

    Yes, with the big spread indicated.

    Keep us appraised of your results, just for fun. zg

  • SWFL Blackjack

     

    Quote: jopke said:
    I was thinking it would be kind of fun to try attacking a 6:5 game. I’d be playing a small unit and doing it more for the challenge than anything.

    Any advice? I use TKO, which I know isn’t ideal for single deck, but oh well…

    Can a very aggressive spread beat it? Spreading from 1 to 2×40 would crush, right?

    How much does the lower BJ payoff devalue aces? Sequencing is still worthwhile, right?

    I play primarily shoe games and 2D where I can get good pen. I’ve only played single deck when a casino was running a deal where they payed 2-1 on naturals during certain time periods, which applied to the 6:5 games as well. (That was a ton of fun, I flat be 3x$100 and made a killing.)

    Have you tried to sim this game? I would be curious of the EV of such a game.

  • zengrifter

     

    Quote: SWFL Blackjack said:
    Have you tried to sim this game? I would be curious of the EV of such a game.

    A little over 1% (not sim, just guess) zg

  • tensplitter

     

    6:5 single deck only turns profitable at TC +4. You’d need a huge spread. It would be like minimum bet for TC <4 and max bet for TC >4.

  • zengrifter

     

    Quote: tensplitter said:
    6:5 single deck only turns profitable at TC +4. You’d need a huge spread. It would be like minimum bet for TC <4 and max bet for TC >4.

    Ya. zg

  • moo321

     

    Quote: tensplitter said:
    6:5 single deck only turns profitable at TC +4. You’d need a huge spread. It would be like minimum bet for TC <4 and max bet for TC >4.

    Wait, no. You would still want to spread your bets. Just play mins and then start ramping up above +4. The only reason to “max bet” is for cover purposes.

    Also, it’s single deck. Very volatile TC’s, not like shoes where you’re only hitting +5 1% of the time with a 1.5 deck cut.

  • neversplit5s

     

    If you’re trying to decide which system to use if you’re going to try and beat a 6:5 SD game, if I’m correct the BC vs. PE balace tips even more to the latter with 6:5 (compared to 3:2 SD) since blackjacks have less of an effect but the importance of playing decisions are the same as in any single-deck game.

  • Cardcounter

     

    If you are playing a 6:5 game during a promotion that pays you 2 to 1 for blackjack you are no longer playing a 6:5 game. Meaning you bet $10 and Win $20 instead of $12 it is good game during the promotion but once the promotion ends go back to the regular blackjack tables that pay 3:2 or $15 for a $10 bet. In fact it is smart to play the 6:5 tables during a promotional period paying 2:1 on blackjack because the other rules are quit good and you will have 1.5% advantage of the top there is no crazy spread necessary during this promotion.

  • jopke

     

    Quote: Cardcounter said:
    If you are playing a 6:5 game during a promotion that pays you 2 to 1 for blackjack you are no longer playing a 6:5 game. Meaning you bet $10 and Win $20 instead of $12 it is good game during the promotion but once the promotion ends go back to the regular blackjack tables that pay 3:2 or $15 for a $10 bet. In fact it is smart to play the 6:5 tables during a promotional period paying 2:1 on blackjack because the other rules are quit good and you will have 1.5% advantage of the top there is no crazy spread necessary during this promotion.

    Yes, I did this for quite a while a few months ago, switching between 6 deck and single deck. It was very nice, unfortunately my buddy lost a lot and wanted to leave. I just flat bet 3x$100 and won a lot.

    My OP wasn’t regarding that, I was just interested in 6:5 opinions.

  • zengrifter

     

    Quote: moo321 said:
    Wait, no. You would still want to spread your bets. Just play mins and then start ramping up above +4. The only reason to “max bet” is for cover purposes.

    Dis agree. Jsut bet big or small… or however the AutoMonk does it. zg

  • Jack_Black

     

    Quote: zengrifter said:
    Dis agree. Jsut bet big or small… or however the AutoMonk does it. zg

    betting big or small increases your variance, although it does increase your winrate. The choice is personal whether to use a proper ramp or using max bet at all +TC counts. or +4 in this case.

  • zengrifter

     

    Quote: Jack_Black said:
    betting big or small increases your variance, although it does increase your winrate. The choice is personal whether to use a proper ramp or using max bet at all +TC counts. or +4 in this case.

    There is little choice in effective 6:5 counting – no room for ramp.
    AutoMonk – what spread do yo recommend? zg

  • moo321

     

    Quote: zengrifter said:
    There is little choice in effective 6:5 counting – no room for ramp.
    AutoMonk – what spread do yo recommend? zg

    I think we’re mixing up terms here. I agree you have to spread like a maniac. Like, if it gets positive go to ten units. But that doesn’t mean that when it gets more positive we can’t go to 30 units.

  • Automatic Monkey

     

    Quote: zengrifter said:
    There is little choice in effective 6:5 counting – no room for ramp.
    AutoMonk – what spread do yo recommend? zg

    1-20 without a Wongout, maybe 1-10 if you can escape most negative counts.

    As always, it’s all about the pen.

  • 21forme

     

    Quote: Automatic Monkey said:
    1-20 without a Wongout, maybe 1-10 if you can escape most negative counts.

    As always, it’s all about the pen.

    What do you think about a ro6, 6:5 game. Worth playing with that spread?

  • zengrifter

     

    Quote: 21forme said:
    What do you think about a ro6, 6:5 game. Worth playing with that spread?

    You will best play 2hands heads up.
    I’m going revise my “no spread” statement.

    (rough estimate)

    2×1
    2×8
    2×12

    -or-

    1×1
    1×12
    1×20

  • Automatic Monkey

     

    Quote: 21forme said:
    What do you think about a ro6, 6:5 game. Worth playing with that spread?

    Yes. If it’s true RO6 (no cut card), try to get exactly 2 hands in the game at all times.

  • moo321

     

    Does anyone want to post some SCORE numbers, or are we trying to keep this a secret? If so, I’ll shut up and we can kill the thread.

  • zengrifter

     

    Quote: moo321 said:
    Does anyone want to post some SCORE numbers, or are we trying to keep this a secret? If so, I’ll shut up and we can kill the thread.

    Something like a bad 8D. Monk? zg

  • Jack_Black

     

    Quote: moo321 said:
    Does anyone want to post some SCORE numbers, or are we trying to keep this a secret? If so, I’ll shut up and we can kill the thread.

    There’s a thread on it. Too lazy to find it now, but it was started by anirishmannottoobright, maybe a year ago.

  • creeping panther

    6.5

    Quote: jopke said:
    I was thinking it would be kind of fun to try attacking a 6:5 game. I’d be playing a small unit and doing it more for the challenge than anything.

    Any advice? I use TKO, which I know isn’t ideal for single deck, but oh well…

    Can a very aggressive spread beat it? Spreading from 1 to 2×40 would crush, right?

    How much does the lower BJ payoff devalue aces? Sequencing is still worthwhile, right?

    I play primarily shoe games and 2D where I can get good pen. I’ve only played single deck when a casino was running a deal where they payed 2-1 on naturals during certain time periods, which applied to the 6:5 games as well. (That was a ton of fun, I flat be 3x$100 and made a killing.)

    I gave in to playing 6.5 sd last night due to a special opportunity,,,1.33 HA but I won some good money on it.

    Would I do it again,,maybe ,,if the special opportunity continues but it will never replace a 3.2 game.

    CP

  • billionaireben

    6:5 Revisited.

    I did this and won most of my sessions (about 90%) at 6:5, but the one session that lost was too big a loss ($570, betting $10 min up to $100). a TC of +2 is a 0.25% advantage, not much but its something. The rules I came up with were only play heads up, vary your bets widely past the +3 TC point and make unusual plays when it has a positive expectation. Splitting tens against a 6 is one, doubling any soft hand (except BJ, unlss +4 or higher)against a 6 in positive counts, Doubling low soft hands in -4 counts, doubling 12 when the count is neutral and a lot of 9’s are left after at least 3 hands.

    The good thing is there is less heat and better rules (other than 6:5, which is big) seek out LS and good penetration, but the big rule is play alone on low min tables. Also, a rule of thumb that would have saved me in the game I lost, if you are down 250, then only down 50 in a less than perfect situation (like crowded 6:5, or any 6:5) just leave, your playing wont suffer from a $50 loss, but half your trip BR can f**k up your playing for the whole day.

    BTW, I did recover and after going to my last $100 (on DD 3:2) I won back all I had lost, but did not yield a profit for the trip. Hooters DD games were the majority of my losses and I still made a profit at MGM playing only 6:5 games.

  • 21forme

     

    Quote: billionaireben said:
    a TC of +2 is a 0.25% advantage,

    There was some discussion about 6:5 on Green Chip a few months ago and Don S. said you don’t have an advantage at 6:5 SD until TC +5, due to the reduced value of the ace.

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