Cruise Ships and Regulations

  • tribute

    Cruise Ships and Regulations

    Anyone know what entity regulates games on Royal Caribbean or Carnival? There have been posts about possible cheating by the casino. What recourse does a player have, if any?

  • 21forme

     

    There is no recourse and there is no overseeing authority. On the high seas, the Captain IS the law, period.

  • tribute

     

    Wouldn’t it be interesting to know total gambling revenue for a typical 7-day caribbean cruise.

  • exgriffinman

     

    Quote: 21forme said:
    There is no recourse and there is no overseeing authority. On the high seas, the Captain IS the law, period.

    21 is correct, who say’s there are no pirate ships in the carribean anymore…Your larger cruiselines such as carnival, royal, norweigian are usually on the level, its the 3 mile cruises to nowhere that you have to watch out for…

    EXGM

  • johndoe

     

    Quote: 21forme said:
    There is no recourse and there is no overseeing authority. On the high seas, the Captain IS the law, period.

    That’s not quite true; the federal US government has authority over ships carrying US passengers, and using US ports. The FBI can and will investigate complaints.

    But in practice it’s definitely much more difficult to bring a case, especially for a nonviolent crime.

  • 21forme

     

    Quote: exgriffinman said:
    21 is correct, who say’s there are no pirate ships in the carribean anymore…Your larger cruiselines such as carnival, royal, norweigian are usually on the level, its the 3 mile cruises to nowhere that you have to watch out for…

    EXGM

    EXGM – Not quite correct re the larger cruise lines. See my earlier post here: http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=20965 Reason I counted down the shoes before playing is an AP friend of mine had a similar experience on another cruise line.

  • exgriffinman

     

    Quote: johndoe said:
    That’s not quite true; the federal US government has authority over ships carrying US passengers, and using US ports. The FBI can and will investigate complaints.

    But in practice it’s definitely much more difficult to bring a case, especially for a nonviolent crime.

    The Government may investigate injustices that happen on a cruise ship, But trust me they will not investigate a cheating dealer in a ships casino, international waters is international waters. I was a director of Surveillance for a cruiseline based out of Miami and Ft. Lauderdale and never did I deal with the FBI. Nor did I have a pit that cheated, The most I ever saw was the slot department tightening up machines (but they do this on land-based casinos as well)I believe my experience trumps what a friend said or assumptions.

  • Machinist

     

    Quote: exgriffinman said:
    The Government may investigate injustices that happen on a cruise ship, But trust me they will not investigate a cheating dealer in a ships casino, international waters is international waters. I was a director of Surveillance for a cruiseline based out of Miami and Ft. Lauderdale and never did I deal with the FBI. Nor did I have a pit that cheated, The most I ever saw was the slot department tightening up machines (but they do this on land-based casinos as well)I believe my experience trumps what a friend said or assumptions.

    Tightening up machines?

    Machinist

  • exgriffinman

     

    Quote: Machinist said:
    Tightening up machines?

    Machinist

    Yes, Iv’e witnessed it on two major cruise lines…On the trip out the machines will have average to abouve average payouts but before the trip back, slot techs will change out the boards making the machines tighter and less likely to pay off…I was surprised myself but then again just when you thought youve seen everything…

    EXGM

  • exgriffinman

     

    Quote: 21forme said:
    EXGM – Not quite correct re the larger cruise lines. See my earlier post here: http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=20965 Reason I counted down the shoes before playing is an AP friend of mine had a similar experience on another cruise line.

    I’m not doubting you 21, I have read your previous post and will say that anything is possible…I just never witnessed it while working for either Royal or Norweigian. I will say this, on your previous post you stated they came up to the table and the cards were already in the shoe. Some cruise lines are cheap when it comes to cards and dice, they will shut the casino down at the end of the day and instead of boxing the cards up, they will just store the shoe till the next day and the same shoe goes back into play. Cheesy but they do it.

    EXGM

  • johndoe

     

    Quote: exgriffinman said:
    The Government may investigate injustices that happen on a cruise ship, But trust me they will not investigate a cheating dealer in a ships casino, international waters is international waters. I was a director of Surveillance for a cruiseline based out of Miami and Ft. Lauderdale and never did I deal with the FBI. Nor did I have a pit that cheated, The most I ever saw was the slot department tightening up machines (but they do this on land-based casinos as well)I believe my experience trumps what a friend said or assumptions.

    I’m just citing what the law says; being in international waters doesn’t clear the ship from US law or the FBI. They’re still under federal jurisdiction.

    But you’re right, as a practical matter, it’s unlikely that the FBI will devote any serious resources to investigating a cheating casino. But it’s because of what the FBI considers a priority, not because they happen to be in international waters.

    I would have to think that a player holding a hefty stack of bills could convince the pit to fan out the cards at least once, no?

  • exgriffinman

     

    Quote: johndoe said:
    I’m just citing what the law says; being in international waters doesn’t clear the ship from US law or the FBI. They’re still under federal jurisdiction.

    But you’re right, as a practical matter, it’s unlikely that the FBI will devote any serious resources to investigating a cheating casino. But it’s because of what the FBI considers a priority, not because they happen to be in international waters.

    I would have to think that a player holding a hefty stack of bills could convince the pit to fan out the cards at least once, no?

    I agree, but my advise to all on this thread…If you don’t trust the place your playing in, don’t play!!

  • sagefr0g

     

    Quote: exgriffinman said:
    …, The most I ever saw was the slot department tightening up machines (but they do this on land-based casinos as well)……

    can you expand on this a bit? errhhh particularly in regards to land-based casinos……..
    do most states have laws with respect to the overall hold and payback for the slots in mass?

  • exgriffinman

     

    Quote: sagefr0g said:
    can you expand on this a bit? errhhh particularly in regards to land-based casinos……..
    do most states have laws with respect to the overall hold and payback for the slots in mass?

    Yes, all states with leagalized land-based gaming are regulated when it comes to slot hold and payout (ie: Nevada minimum payout on slots is 75% and in New Jersey it’s 83 %). Regulations vary from state to state.

    EXGM

  • sagefr0g

     

    Quote: exgriffinman said:
    Yes, all states with leagalized land-based gaming are regulated when it comes to slot hold and payout (ie: Nevada minimum payout on slots is 75% and in New Jersey it’s 83 %). Regulations vary from state to state.

    EXGM

    thank you for confirming that exgriff…..
    so with respect to that minimum payout regulation, is it true that, that means an overall average of the slot machines in a given casino? so say a given machine in Nevada, may legally payout less than 75% as long as the overall average of all the slots pays out 75%?

  • exgriffinman

     

    Quote: sagefr0g said:
    thank you for confirming that exgriff…..
    so with respect to that minimum payout regulation, is it true that, that means an overall average of the slot machines in a given casino? so say a given machine in Nevada, may legally payout less than 75% as long as the overall average of all the slots pays out 75%?

    Yes, As long as the total hold is 75% per the state, this ensures their revenue…

    EXGM

  • zengrifter

     

    Quote: tribute said:
    Anyone know what entity regulates games on Royal Caribbean or Carnival? There have been posts about possible cheating by the casino. What recourse does a player have, if any?

    Dealers MOSTLY cheat IN FAVOR of players, for tips. zg

  • Machinist

     

    Quote: exgriffinman said:
    Yes, As long as the total hold is 75% per the state, this ensures their revenue…

    EXGM

    Hold it now……..I don’t believe this to be correct. I think that is by the machine,,,,the 75%. Not as a whole. I know that the manufacturers make 3 or 4 different chips for each type of machine. So there will be let’s say a 75% chip which would be Nevada’s minimum, and then an 80%, 85, and so on….
    Why they do that is because each gaming market is unique. Some casinos have a lot of high dollar action and some not so much.
    What ever their market can bear is where they set them. Same with denominations, some can handle 4$ spins on machines some only 3$.
    I could be wrong about the total hold deal, but anything I’ve read over the years leads me to my belief.
    Machinist

  • noharmnofoul

     

    I think I am in need of a visit back to a certain cruise line once I am a bit more proficient at being an AP player. I ended up dropping more in 30 min at the BJ table then I spent on the ENTIRE(flights, cruise, shopping, booze, etc..) vacation for two. At this point, I didn’t even have bs down, but I thought I did. I can’t remember the specifics of the game, but it was SD dealt face up, but I was the only player, H17. Not sure about das or pen. Didn’t even know what pen was at the time.

  • tthree

     

    Quote: noharmnofoul said:
    I think I am in need of a visit back to a certain cruise line once I am a bit more proficient at being an AP player. I ended up dropping more in 30 min at the BJ table then I spent on the ENTIRE(flights, cruise, shopping, booze, etc..) vacation for two. At this point, I didn’t even have bs down, but I thought I did. I can’t remember the specifics of the game, but it was SD dealt face up, but I was the only player, H17. Not sure about das or pen. Didn’t even know what pen was at the time.

    What cruise ship deals SD face up?

  • noharmnofoul

     

    Quote: tthree said:
    What cruise ship deals SD face up?

    I was on RC. I was quite shocked as I had only ever seen sd played face down.

  • tthree

     

    Quote: noharmnofoul said:
    I was on RC. I was quite shocked as I had only ever seen sd played face down.

    I guess that is Royal Caribbean. How did you do? Did it seem like the game was on the up and up?

  • noharmnofoul

     

    Quote: tthree said:
    I guess that is Royal Caribbean. How did you do? Did it seem like the game was on the up and up?

    Correct. I was playing with less than perfect bs and no cc. Good old fashion ploppy at the time! Got my ass KICKED! I couldn’t tell you if the game was on the up and up to be honest. Dealer suggested that I move over to a shoe game instead of playing heads up, sd. I did so and continued to get my ass kicked!

  • blackriver

     

    Quote: noharmnofoul said:
    I was on RC. I was quite shocked as I had only ever seen sd played face down.

    Any high limit room will deal you sd/dd face up if your the only player and ur only playing 1 hand.they just font want you playing 5 hands and sharing information

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