Good and bad news at Foxwoods

  • halbruno

    Good and bad news at Foxwoods

    Foxwoods is now H17 as of this July. They also plan to bring in automatic shuffler machines soon starting on the Foxwoods side then introducing them to MGM.

    The penetration has improved. It is now a one deck cut off. I thought it was only with the dealer that first worked the table, but it seemed that all the dealers were going deep into the shoe. I wonder if they see this as compensation for H17?

    I questioned the dealer why he hit 17, and he mentioned they just started doing it this month. The felt didn’t have this new rule posted so it was a bit of a surprise and disappointment at the same time.

    I asked the floor manager about it. He mentioned that it is becoming industry standard. I made sure to express my disatisfaction with the move even though it won’t change anything there.

    Maybe Pennsylvania is the place to go! I went to the Sugarhouse recently and the rules were fairly favorable.

  • Remember Remember

     

    Quote: halbruno said:
    They also plan to bring in automatic shuffler machines soon starting on the Foxwoods side then introducing them to MGM.

    ASMs only right? For a second I though you said CSM and was about to flip lol. Though I remember they tried CSMs once and it went over so poorly that they switched back to good old shoes.

    On a side note, I hear pen at xxxSugarxxx xxxHousexxx is horrible not to mention the neighborhood it’s in. Actually make that hood it is in…no neighbor there. But it also seems that security/heat is non-existent. Any updates as far as pen goes at this store?

  • johndoe

     

    It sounds like they’re trying to speed up the game in many ways – good for them. ASM’s are generally better for counters anyhow. And better pen does make up for the H17.

    Now if they’d just bring back backline betting they’d get even more action at the tables.

    The new manager is certainly making his mark, and seems to be reasonably smart about his decisions.

  • paymypush

     

    Quote: halbruno said:
    Foxwoods is now H17 as of this July. They also plan to bring in automatic shuffler machines soon starting on the Foxwoods side then introducing them to MGM.

    The penetration has improved. It is now a one deck cut off. I thought it was only with the dealer that first worked the table, but it seemed that all the dealers were going deep into the shoe. I wonder if they see this as compensation for H17?

    I questioned the dealer why he hit 17, and he mentioned they just started doing it this month. The felt didn’t have this new rule posted so it was a bit of a surprise and disappointment at the same time.

    I asked the floor manager about it. He mentioned that it is becoming industry standard. I made sure to express my disatisfaction with the move even though it won’t change anything there.

    Maybe Pennsylvania is the place to go! I went to the Sugarhouse recently and the rules were fairly favorable.

    Not to be picky but Foxwoods changed to H17 on April 28th and MGM on June 15th. Every single felt in both casinos does indeed have the rule posted. It’s S17 in the Newport room and H17 everywhere else.

    I’ve seen shuffle machines come and go many times over the years at Foxwoods. As always, the bottom line will be the deciding factor.

  • halbruno

    Sugarhouse

    Quote: Remember Remember said:
    ASMs only right? For a second I though you said CSM and was about to flip lol. Though I remember they tried CSMs once and it went over so poorly that they switched back to good old shoes.

    On a side note, I hear pen at xxxSugarxxx xxxHousexxx is horrible not to mention the neighborhood it’s in. Actually make that hood it is in…no neighbor there. But it also seems that security/heat is non-existent. Any updates as far as pen goes at this store?

    At the Sugarhouse the pen was pretty good. The cut off was around 1 1/2 decks. The rules were liberal as well. I had the chance to buy into someone else’s double when he was short of cash, and I witnessed other players making across the table buy-ins into other players hands. Casinos I frequent do not allow these types of bets. So, it was my first time using Renzey’s strategies from Blackjack Bluebook II. As you probably know, they use 8 decks, offer surrender, S17 etc. They used to allow resplit Aces but now no longer. So, you can only split Aces once.

    Yeah, I didn’t encounter any heat, but at the same time I walked out a loser! The general atmosphere is laid-back. None of the dealers seemed to be seasoned pros and were generally friendly. One of the dealers I had made three different mistakes dealing the cards. So, many of them are likely new to the biz.

    The location is not really a neighborhood at all but on a pier in an industrial area away from the city center. Still, it is not much to worry about as long as you don’t walk from there. I took a taxi each time. The ride was about 10 minutes or less from the Liberty Bell. There is even a free shuttle bus which does a loop through downtown every couple of hours.

    Minimums are typically $25 and the tables can be busy. Since it is not a really large place there are not a lot of tables. Still, if you get there in the afternoon/off hours before 4:30pm, you might find an empty table with a minimum of $15.

    If you fund your play by using a credit card, which yes, I know is not recommended, there is only one ATM which will do credit card cash advances. It is near the valet parking area. I found this a bit strange! I figured that a casino would want you to give them your money no matter where it came from!

  • 21forme

     

    Sugarhouse is better than it used to be. The ploppies that filled the tables when they first opened are now broke, so you can get a seat.

  • Percy

     

    Those rule changes sound like Zender-ism and make a lot of sense.

  • Automatic Monkey

     

    Confirmed: FW now has some CSM’s. Not ASM’s, CSM’s.

  • Remember Remember

     

    Quote: Automatic Monkey said:
    Confirmed: FW now has some CSM’s. Not ASM’s, CSM’s.

    It didn’t work out well last time they tried it. How is the traffic on those tables? Hopefully it’ll be low and they will re-learn their lesson.

    We need to convince ploppies that CSMs constantly “change the flow of cards” and that they are inherently evil.

  • Automatic Monkey

     

    Quote: Remember Remember said:
    It didn’t work out well last time they tried it. How is the traffic on those tables? Hopefully it’ll be low and they will re-learn their lesson.

    We need to convince ploppies that CSMs constantly “change the flow of cards” and that they are inherently evil.

    I saw them getting sparse and small action, in the de facto Asian room in the old casino. Those tables are usually $25 or $50 min and tend to get large action, that is the last pit they should have put CSM’s or even H17 in.

    AP’s should manage casino table games! It would be very profitable for both AP’s and the casino. More enjoyable for the civilians too.

  • paymypush

     

    Quote: Remember Remember said:
    It didn’t work out well last time they tried it. How is the traffic on those tables? Hopefully it’ll be low and they will re-learn their lesson.

    We need to convince ploppies that CSMs constantly “change the flow of cards” and that they are inherently evil.

    This is pit 2 which has 10 blackjack tables. Six of these are outfitted with the ONE2SIX CSM’s. I agree that the placement of these machines in this particular pit is very odd. I checked just before noon today and there were three tables open, all with CSM’s and all at $10 minimums. One was dead, one had 4 players betting light green to black, and the third had a heads up player betting 2X$50 and spreading to 2X$100. The discards were returned to the machine after every hand although one of the relief dealers would occasionally forget.

    The Wizard of Odds has stated that the house edge is slightly decreased on a CSM but of course the hands per hour are increased most likely negating that small difference.

    If players go for this I can only imagine what will be next- an ante to pay for the CSM’s?

  • winnawinna

     

    Quote: paymypush said:
    This is pit 2 which has 10 blackjack tables. Six of these are outfitted with the ONE2SIX CSM’s. I agree that the placement of these machines in this particular pit is very odd. I checked just before noon today and there were three tables open, all with CSM’s and all at $10 minimums. One was dead, one had 4 players betting light green to black, and the third had a heads up player betting 2X$50 and spreading to 2X$100. The discards were returned to the machine after every hand although one of the relief dealers would occasionally forget.

    The Wizard of Odds has stated that the house edge is slightly decreased on a CSM but of course the hands per hour are increased most likely negating that small difference.

    If players go for this I can only imagine what will be next- an ante to pay for the CSM’s?

    Are they planning on CSMs on all of their tables or just the lower ones. Did they have any prior to this? MS has them at their low end tables $5 and some $10 ones.

  • paymypush

     

    Quote: winnawinna said:
    Are they planning on CSMs on all of their tables or just the lower ones. Did they have any prior to this? MS has them at their low end tables $5 and some $10 ones.

    Foxwoods is testing the waters which is what they love to do. My guess is that their plan is to do whatever they can to separate players from their money. If they push too far, they’ll simply throttle back and play the hero. Yes, they’ve had these machines many times over their 19 year history. The main complaint was usually that the rental fee/commission to Shuffle Master was cost prohibitive.

    Since the beginning of summer, Mohegan Sun has had at least 2 $5 games every day in the Winter Casino. These are 6 deck S17 and are grandfathered at $5. I’ve been monitoring the penetration and was seeing more and more at 75%. Today, however it was a dismal 2 to 2 1/4 deck cut. I haven’t seen CSM’s anywhere at MS other than the $5 H17 tables by the Sky Valet.

  • winnawinna

     

    Quote: paymypush said:
    Foxwoods is testing the waters which is what they love to do. My guess is that their plan is to do whatever they can to separate players from their money. If they push too far, they’ll simply throttle back and play the hero. Yes, they’ve had these machines many times over their 19 year history. The main complaint was usually that the rental fee/commission to Shuffle Master was cost prohibitive.

    Since the beginning of summer, Mohegan Sun has had at least 2 $5 games every day in the Winter Casino. These are 6 deck S17 and are grandfathered at $5. I’ve been monitoring the penetration and was seeing more and more at 75%. Today, however it was a dismal 2 to 2 1/4 deck cut. I haven’t seen CSM’s anywhere at MS other than the $5 H17 tables by the Sky Valet.

    Yes they are only at the $5 tables and some $10 tables on weekends where the $5 tables are.

  • paymypush

     

    Quote: winnawinna said:
    Yes they are only at the $5 tables and some $10 tables on weekends where the $5 tables are.

    I usually avoid casinos on the weekends. Are you saying that the $5 H17 tables at MS are now being raised to $10 or that there are other CSM’s besides these 12?

  • winnawinna

     

    Quote: paymypush said:
    I usually avoid casinos on the weekends. Are you saying that the $5 H17 tables at MS are now being raised to $10 or that there are other CSM’s besides these 12?

    On Saturday nights some of the $5 tables get raised to $10 but not all

  • paymypush

     

    Quote: winnawinna said:
    On Saturday nights some of the $5 tables get raised to $10 but not all

    So much for their commitment to keep them at $5, 24/7. I can’t really blame them. There’s almost always some green action at these tables on even the slowest of days with plenty of S17 available a few steps away.

  • Automatic Monkey

     

    Quote: paymypush said:
    Foxwoods is testing the waters which is what they love to do. My guess is that their plan is to do whatever they can to separate players from their money. If they push too far, they’ll simply throttle back and play the hero. Yes, they’ve had these machines many times over their 19 year history. The main complaint was usually that the rental fee/commission to Shuffle Master was cost prohibitive.

    Since the beginning of summer, Mohegan Sun has had at least 2 $5 games every day in the Winter Casino. These are 6 deck S17 and are grandfathered at $5. I’ve been monitoring the penetration and was seeing more and more at 75%. Today, however it was a dismal 2 to 2 1/4 deck cut. I haven’t seen CSM’s anywhere at MS other than the $5 H17 tables by the Sky Valet.

    And now that they’re not paying their bills, the leasing cost is probably a non-issue now. When are they going to learn that CSM’s are not accepted by anyone but the lowest of the low?

  • Joeb21

     

    I was at Foxwoods this weekend. I was playing and the dealer went to stop at soft 17 and then said oh I have to hit now. She explained the dealers got a memo that said in order to increase their blackjack revenue they are all hitting on S17. Another interesting thing was this dealer was cutting to 1 deck whereas the relief was using the old mark on the shoe and cutting to 2 decks.

  • johndoe

     

    Quote: Joeb21 said:
    I was at Foxwoods this weekend. I was playing and the dealer went to stop at soft 17 and then said oh I have to hit now. She explained the dealers got a memo that said in order to increase their blackjack revenue they are all hitting on S17. Another interesting thing was this dealer was cutting to 1 deck whereas the relief was using the old mark on the shoe and cutting to 2 decks.

    I don’t think it would be too out of line to ask that the relief use the “new” mark.

  • HsiaoDi

     

    was there at foxwoods on a weekday… few CSM that i saw were pretty packed 10/15 min. however with 10/15 min hand shuffled all over the place, I wasn’t sure why anyone in their right mind would play csm.

    For the first time i checked out their HL pit. NMSE 6 decks… not full, but quite a few were playing

    mgm did not change their felt, still with same weird wording as before… lost a hand with A6 then dealer pulled a 3….

  • bosox164

    Please tell me you are kidding

    Quote: Automatic Monkey said:
    Confirmed: FW now has some CSM’s. Not ASM’s, CSM’s.

    Really? FW is going into the crapper. My wife is a slot player and she says their machines have gotten so tight it’s unbelievable. I like a little VP once in a while but instead of seeing 9/6 on a JoB machine its like 7/5 or worse. We also usually stay overnight but comps for rooms have been dwindling too. Years ago I could get $49 (or better) on a Friday or Saturday but now FW sends me mail with $89 on a Tuesday for their best deal. F FW’s. Between H17 and now CSMs I will stick to Turning Stone or somewhere like Mount Airy or Pocono if I want to drive 3 plus hours.

  • paymypush

     

    Quote: bosox164 said:
    Really? FW is going into the crapper. My wife is a slot player and she says their machines have gotten so tight it’s unbelievable. I like a little VP once in a while but instead of seeing 9/6 on a JoB machine its like 7/5 or worse. We also usually stay overnight but comps for rooms have been dwindling too. Years ago I could get $49 (or better) on a Friday or Saturday but now FW sends me mail with $89 on a Tuesday for their best deal. F FW’s. Between H17 and now CSMs I will stick to Turning Stone or somewhere like Mount Airy or Pocono if I want to drive 3 plus hours.

    There’s no need to head for the hills. If you read this entire thread you will see that there are only 6 CSMs in the entire Foxwoods /MGM complex. The rest of the games are 6 deck S17 starting at $50 and 8 deck H17 starting at $5. With good penetration and surrender offered these games are quite playable.

  • pit15

     

    Quote: bosox164 said:
    Really? FW is going into the crapper. My wife is a slot player and she says their machines have gotten so tight it’s unbelievable. I like a little VP once in a while but instead of seeing 9/6 on a JoB machine its like 7/5 or worse. We also usually stay overnight but comps for rooms have been dwindling too. Years ago I could get $49 (or better) on a Friday or Saturday but now FW sends me mail with $89 on a Tuesday for their best deal. F FW’s. Between H17 and now CSMs I will stick to Turning Stone or somewhere like Mount Airy or Pocono if I want to drive 3 plus hours.

    What difference does it make? Your wife’s gonna lose all her money anyway, does it really matter if it takes 20 minutes or it takes an hour?

  • paymypush

    ASMs are on the way

    Foxwoods has begun adapting blackjack tables for ASMs. The pits involved are pit 3 in the Rainmaker Casino and pit 23 in the Pequot Casino. They expect them to be installed by this weekend. It’s not clear at this time how many tables are involved.

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