Question on comps

  • tezzadiver

    Question on comps

    A few weeks to go ……
    General question on comps. How long does (on average) a PB watch your play when sitting down and starting to play?
    Is it worthwhile to bet higher for the first few rounds so the PB can record you playing a higher minimum?
    Mainly interested in buffet comps etc.
    Any advice appreciated.

  • flyingwind

     

    Bet a lot when the PB is watching.
    If you won a big bet, and they’re not watching, make a lot of noise so they come and look.
    Don’t do anything suspicious while you’re comp hustling.

  • IcyM

     

    Quote: flyingwind said:
    Bet a lot when the PB is watching.
    If you won a big bet, and they’re not watching, make a lot of noise so they come and look.
    Don’t do anything suspicious while you’re comp hustling.

    How much action is needed in most places for good comp consideration?

    I sent you a PM also flying.

  • Lowrider

     

    Unless your endgame is to play for comps…..NEVER PLAY FOR COMPS….just play whatever strategy that is appropriate given the game at hand and your BK….my rule of thumb is to never adjust your play for comps…unless of course that is why u r playing

  • IcyM

     

    Quote: Lowrider said:
    Unless your endgame is to play for comps…..NEVER PLAY FOR COMPS….just play whatever strategy that is appropriate given the game at hand and your BK….my rule of thumb is to never adjust your play for comps…unless of course that is why u r playing

    In reference to this, I asked my question just to be less ignorant of the matter. I know how my regular store handles comps, but I don’t have deeper knowledge of others and what action they need. I would never augment my betting to score a comp specifically. But knowing what action most casinos want for normal consideration on comps can’t hurt. Thanks.

  • Caesar

    Role of tips?

    Some well-regarded blackjack experts maintain that basic strategy players have an advantage because the comps offset their losses when the casino edge is .5% or less. Their idea is that the house expects the typical player to play at a 2% disadvantage. Therefore, a player with a perfect knowledge of basic strategy can have a small, positive expectation.
    But their analyses do not typically include the cost of tipping the dealer. If you stiff the dealer, will the pit still be generous? I doubt it. My point is that the cost of tipping needs to be factored in anytime you play for comps.
    If any APs know of a book or article examining the relationship between comps and tips, I’d be obliged. Thanks.

  • flyingwind

     

    Choose one or the other. Play for comps, or play to win.

    It’s not impossible to do both, but your style of play when comp hustling is a little different than your usual play to win. If you get nailed for trying to win, there goes the comps.

  • Shoofly

     

    Quote: IcyM said:
    In reference to this, I asked my question just to be less ignorant of the matter. I know how my regular store handles comps, but I don’t have deeper knowledge of others and what action they need. I would never augment my betting to score a comp specifically. But knowing what action most casinos want for normal consideration on comps can’t hurt. Thanks.

    The answer, of course, is that it depends on the casino. There are some casinos that will rush over to offer a food comp almost as soon as you sit down, and others that will not offer a comp under any circumstances. If you post which area of the country you are interested in, I am sure someone on this board can give you some information.

  • tezzadiver

     

    Quote: flyingwind said:
    Bet a lot when the PB is watching.
    If you won a big bet, and they’re not watching, make a lot of noise so they come and look.
    Don’t do anything suspicious while you’re comp hustling.

    The first two make sense, but what do you mean by don`t do anything suspicious? As IF……..

    I`ll be counting and spreading as per normal to beat the game. Just want to know if its worth the added EV to put a larger bet out than normal while starting to play (maybe 3 or 4 rounds or so). Just looking at small buffet comps, won`t be playing longer than 1 hr on any session in any case.

    And would playing time affect it? Is a hour enough? Lets say about 1200 -1500 dollars action in a hour on average depending on decks and players of course.
    Effectively do the pit critters record your min. bet from the start?

  • tthree

     

    Quote: tezzadiver said:
    The first two make sense, but what do you mean by don`t do anything suspicious? As IF……..

    I`ll be counting and spreading as per normal to beat the game. Just want to know if its worth the added EV to put a larger bet out than normal while starting to play (maybe 3 or 4 rounds or so). Just looking at small buffet comps, won`t be playing longer than 1 hr on any session in any case.

    And would playing time affect it? Is a hour enough? Lets say about 1200 -1500 dollars action in a hour on average depending on decks and players of course.
    Effectively do the pit critters record your min. bet from the start?

    Only if you start with a minimum bet. If you want to boost your comps start with a bigger bet until the PB enters your bet. Try to keep the illusion by noting when the PB is around and bet accordingly if it doesn’t seem too costly to do so. I like the strategy of playing your game after the start and taking the comp it generates. There is something to be said for having your min waiting bet be for a negative count and a bigger waiting bet off the top of a fresh shoe. It can help with longevity in some places and maybe with comps.

  • AussiePlayer

     

    Depends entirely on the store, I know a few over here that record your average bet as whatever the table minimum is, ie; $500/hand on a $30 table, you will get recorded as $30/hand.

  • tezzadiver

     

    sound advice tthree. Thanks for your input. I completely agree about not going straight back to a min. bet on a fresh shoe. Its a complete giveaway that you may be up to `extra curricular activities`.

    Slightly off topic, but how fierce is heat by spreading to 2 hands, count dependable, on double deck in specific?

  • tezzadiver

     

    Quote: AussiePlayer said:
    Depends entirely on the store, I know a few over here that record your average bet as whatever the table minimum is, ie; $500/hand on a $30 table, you will get recorded as $30/hand.

    Over here? as in downunder stores?

    Is comp hustling worthwhile in OZ?

  • cucuso4

    Don’t do either

    Quote: Caesar said:
    My point is that the cost of tipping needs to be factored in anytime you play for comps.
    If any APs know of a book or article examining the relationship between comps and tips, I’d be obliged. Thanks.

    What is the purpose of tipping the dealer.

    If the goal is to get the money, do not play for comps. That is what VP is for.

  • Caesar

    This changes everything

    Quote: tezzadiver said:
    The first two make sense, but what do you mean by don`t do anything suspicious? As IF……..

    I`ll be counting and spreading as per normal to beat the game. Just want to know if its worth the added EV to put a larger bet out than normal while starting to play (maybe 3 or 4 rounds or so). Just looking at small buffet comps, won`t be playing longer than 1 hr on any session in any case.

    And would playing time affect it? Is a hour enough? Lets say about 1200 -1500 dollars action in a hour on average depending on decks and players of course.
    Effectively do the pit critters record your min. bet from the start?

    Your original post didn’t mention you were counting. For all I knew, you were a basic strategy player looking to maximize comps. My comments have do to with the latter situation.
    Good luck.

  • shadroch

     

    Quote: cucuso4 said:
    What is the purpose of tipping the dealer.

    If the goal is to get the money, do not play for comps. That is what VP is for.

    It is thinking like that that keeps the casinos safe for us comp sucking ho’s.
    Please tell me how you can fool a VP machine into giving you more comps than you’ve actually earned? I can name a few dozen ways of fooling a pit into it.

  • bj21abc

     

    If comp hustling do so at the smaller, more local places. Such as Station casinos.

    On the strip – comps are really for the high rollers.

    Examples – an hour of play rated at $100 average per hand:
    at Harrah’s gets you ~ $3 in comps.
    at the MGM group gets you ~ $5 or so in comps (they actually have a printed formula on the M-life brochure, you can check it out)
    at the Trop gets you much more. They claim it to be $25 or so, but I have yet to see this happen. Then again, what can you really spend it on at the Trop…

    Quote: tezzadiver said:
    A few weeks to go ……
    General question on comps. How long does (on average) a PB watch your play when sitting down and starting to play?
    Is it worthwhile to bet higher for the first few rounds so the PB can record you playing a higher minimum?
    Mainly interested in buffet comps etc.
    Any advice appreciated.
  • shadroch

     

    Quote: bj21abc said:
    If comp hustling do so at the smaller, more local places. Such as Station casinos.

    On the strip – comps are really for the high rollers.

    Examples – an hour of play rated at $100 average per hand:
    at Harrah’s gets you ~ $3 in comps.
    at the MGM group gets you ~ $5 or so in comps (they actually have a printed formula on the M-life brochure, you can check it out)
    at the Trop gets you much more. They claim it to be $25 or so, but I have yet to see this happen. Then again, what can you really spend it on at the Trop…

    I’m sorry, but you are missing the forest while concentrating on a tree or two. An hour of $100 BJ may only earn you a few dollars in comps, but a week of it will earn you tier status enough to boggle your mind.

  • cucuso4

    Ok, I’m all ears

    Quote: shadroch said:
    It is thinking like that that keeps the casinos safe for us comp sucking ho’s.
    Please tell me how you can fool a VP machine into giving you more comps than you’ve actually earned? I can name a few dozen ways of fooling a pit into it.

    I’m interested in hearing how you fool the pit.

  • AussiePlayer

     

    Quote: tezzadiver said:
    Over here? as in downunder stores?

    Is comp hustling worthwhile in OZ?

    Absolutely not. The main reason being, with only one store in each city there is no competition for players business. They simply have no need to ever comp anyone, unless they can afford to fly to a different casino in their private jet.

  • shadroch

     

    Quote: cucuso4 said:
    I’m interested in hearing how you fool the pit.

    There are literally hundreds of posts and dozens of threads about this subject. I’d suggest you read Max Rubins’ Comp City and thensearch the forums.

  • cucuso4

    Really not meaning to be argumentative, but you said

    Quote: shadroch said:
    There are literally hundreds of posts and dozens of threads about this subject. I’d suggest you read Max Rubins’ Comp City and thensearch the forums.

    “I can name a few dozen ways of fooling a pit into it.”

    I have read Rubin. It’s outdated. I only recently joined this forum, but have been on BJ21 for 12 years. I’ve read every post over there in “Cover & Comps”.

    You offered so I asked. That’s my point.

  • bj21abc

     

    Not at M life. I am not that familiar with others. That different ?

    To the original point, for the betting level the OP is talking about, off-strip is the way to go.

    Quote: shadroch said:
    I’m sorry, but you are missing the forest while concentrating on a tree or two. An hour of $100 BJ may only earn you a few dollars in comps, but a week of it will earn you tier status enough to boggle your mind.
  • shadroch

     

    Quote: cucuso4 said:
    “I can name a few dozen ways of fooling a pit into it.”

    I have read Rubin. It’s outdated. I only recently joined this forum, but have been on BJ21 for 12 years. I’ve read every post over there in “Cover & Comps”.

    You offered so I asked. That’s my point.

    If you have read every post in Cover and Comps, then you have already read of dozens of ways to accomplish this, no? If you didn’t learn them there, what makes you think me repeating them will be of much use.
    There is little in Comp City that can’t be applied to todays casinos, with a bit of fine tuning.
    It took people all of what, two weeks maybe, to learn how to exploit the RFID chips.
    I don’t go to BJ21 anymore. Too much drama for me.
    BTW- I never offered to do anything. I merely stated the fact that I can do so. So could at least a dozen regulars, as could you if you paid attention to what you say you read.

  • cucuso4

    I apologize for my ass ump tion

    Quote: shadroch said:
    If you have read every post in Cover and Comps, then you have already read of dozens of ways to accomplish this, no? If you didn’t learn them there, what makes you think me repeating them will be of much use.
    There is little in Comp City that can’t be applied to todays casinos, with a bit of fine tuning.
    It took people all of what, two weeks maybe, to learn how to exploit the RFID chips.
    I don’t go to BJ21 anymore. Too much drama for me.
    BTW- I never offered to do anything. I merely stated the fact that I can do so. So could at least a dozen regulars, as could you if you paid attention to what you say you read.

    You are correct. You did not say you would offer suggestions. You merely said you could. Could and will do have very different meanings.

    I thought you had some super secret method to create steak house, suite, and show comps for a nickle player but I guess not.

    I’ll stay with my original opinion. That is: PLAYING for comps is negative Ev. I get everything I need and will use by just letting the comps come without effort. I’ve never purchased food or lodging at a casino. That’s all I need or want.

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