Ohio Casino Blackjack Rules?

  • jaygruden

    Ohio Casino Blackjack Rules?

    With the first of four new Ohio casinos set to open in 4 months, does anyone know what the Blackjack rules will be for the Ohio stores? I’ve scoured articles online and can find no mention of it. Did the state mandate rules the way PA did, or are they letting each store decide on their own rules?

    Here are all pertinent articles I could find on the coming Ohio casinos:

    http://500nations.com/Ohio_Casinos.asp

    ….very interesting information but can not find BJ rules anywhere.

  • moo321

     

    I’ll get them out as soon as the casinos open.

  • jaygruden

     

    Thanks MWP,

    I found a section in the code where they set the lowest allowable theoretical payout on slot machines at 85%.

    There is, however, no mention of table game minimum standards and no specific mention of BJ in any regard; (including # of decks, shoes or hand-held, BJ payouts, LS, etc. S/H17 options, etc.) This is not a good sign that the commission has not addressed this and will apparently leave discretion up to the house. These items were spelled out specifically by the PA commission well before the first store opened it’s doors.

    The store in Cleveland will at least have to compete with Rivers and Presque Isle in PA due to proximity.

  • cgy606

     

    Quote: jaygruden said:
    Thanks MWP,

    I found a section in the code where they set the lowest allowable theoretical payout on slot machines at 85%.

    There is, however, no mention of table game minimum standards and no specific mention of BJ in any regard; (including # of decks, shoes or hand-held, BJ payouts, LS, etc. S/H17 options, etc.) This is not a good sign that the commission has not addressed this and will apparently leave discretion up to the house. These items were spelled out specifically by the PA commission well before the first store opened it’s doors.

    The store in Cleveland will at least have to compete with Rivers and Presque Isle in PA due to proximity.

    Actually, its better if the state doesn’t regulate what kind of game they have to have or say they cannot ban AP’s. If the state forces a good EV game, then the casino will watch the games like crazy and ban us all. If the state will not allow the casinos to ban AP’s, then the games will be shitty, like AC. Somehow, I doubt that the state would force the casinos to have good games AND not allow them to ban AP’s because collecting tax revenues from the casinos ultimately depends on the health of the casinos, and such a regulation would certainly be a good selling point for the casinos to say to the commission that is in charge, “We are getting screwed from AP’s and that’s why we don’t have that much tax base”. But you never know, government usually doesn’t think thing through

  • tthree

     

    Quote: cgy606 said:
    Actually, its better if the state doesn’t regulate what kind of game they have to have or say they cannot ban AP’s. If the state forces a good EV game, then the casino will watch the games like crazy and ban us all. If the state will not allow the casinos to ban AP’s, then the games will be shitty, like AC. Somehow, I doubt that the state would force the casinos to have good games AND not allow them to ban AP’s because collecting tax revenues from the casinos ultimately depends on the health of the casinos, and such a regulation would certainly be a good selling point for the casinos to say to the commission that is in charge, “We are getting screwed from AP’s and that’s why we don’t have that much tax base”. But you never know, government usually doesn’t think thing through

    The problem with that is right next door in Pa great rules have brought top tax revenue for the state because the tables and slots are busy. The smaller percentage of a much bigger pie is a much bigger piece. I know, I know, this is a concept governments continually shoot themselves in the foot by not understanding. Now the dumber officials are fighting to take an ever bigger piece of a shrinking pie. The exact opposite of what brings a growing revenue stream. They will never learn. Hopefully the Ohio Commission has learned.

  • jaygruden

     

    Here is the response I got back from the commission regarding the email I sent them this morning……

    “Thanks for your email. The Ohio Casino Control Commission is currently in the process of drafting administrative rules that will involve the internal controls that are required of the casinos, including those related to table games, rules of the game, etc. I anticipate that these will cover much of what you mentioned, but will depend upon what the Commission ultimately determines.”

    “I hope this is helpful.”

    “Thanks.”

    “Name & title withheld”

    I was impressed that they got back to me so quickly with a response.

  • tthree

     

    Some of the local jurisdictions have been doing what it takes to piss off the casinos. I don’t know if this extends to the commission. If it does maybe we will see some good games.

  • bigplayer

     

    Quote: Midwest Player said:
    http://casinocontrol.ohio.gov/

    Looks like card counters can be banned under #5
    http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/3772.031

    They are talking about a state list of criminals and cheats (similar to the Nevada or New Jersey Black Book). Not about advantage players. I would suspect that casinos will have the right to refuse service to anyone they want like most businesses unless there is some specific regulation to the contrary.

  • bigplayer

     

    Quote: cgy606 said:
    Actually, its better if the state doesn’t regulate what kind of game they have to have or say they cannot ban AP’s. If the state forces a good EV game, then the casino will watch the games like crazy and ban us all. If the state will not allow the casinos to ban AP’s, then the games will be shitty, like AC. Somehow, I doubt that the state would force the casinos to have good games AND not allow them to ban AP’s because collecting tax revenues from the casinos ultimately depends on the health of the casinos, and such a regulation would certainly be a good selling point for the casinos to say to the commission that is in charge, “We are getting screwed from AP’s and that’s why we don’t have that much tax base”. But you never know, government usually doesn’t think thing through

    Baloney. Good games are caused because of competitive pressure not the right to bar. If the state said you have to have great rules and cannot bar the casinos would still make a ton of money. Vegas and Reno can bar players all they want and now have the worst games in the country. Atlantic City cannot bar and could have eight deck 6/5 games if they want but do not. It’s all about competition and in Las Vegas there isn’t any.

  • cgy606

     

    Quote: bigplayer said:
    Baloney. Good games are caused because of competitive pressure not the right to bar. If the state said you have to have great rules and cannot bar the casinos would still make a ton of money. Vegas and Reno can bar players all they want and now have the worst games in the country. Atlantic City cannot bar and could have eight deck 6/5 games if they want but do not. It’s all about competition and in Las Vegas there isn’t any.

    That is true, good games do come from competition. I hope that casinos in Ohio will have good rules so the ones in MI will have to start competing with them . What I am saying is basically what happened in AC in the early 80’s. If OCC doesn’t allow casinos to band players, then the casinos might make all the games bad to protect themselves from AP’s. But in the process they will lose revenue to other non-AP players. Ultimately what matters to me and should to all AP’s is more competition, and that is the good that is coming out of this!

  • sagefr0g

     

    would it be a safe bet to predict that the Cincinnati casino won’t be worth a crap far as blackjack goes, since it is primarily gonna be managed by Harrahs?

  • moo321

     

    Quote: sagefr0g said:
    would it be a safe bet to predict that the Cincinnati casino won’t be worth a crap far as blackjack goes, since it is primarily gonna be managed by Harrahs?

    Harrah’s isn’t all bad. I know of some Harrah’s properties that have decent 3-2 single deck.

  • DBJT

    Cleveland billboards

    Quote: bigplayer said:
    Good games are caused because of competitive pressure

    FWIW, I was in Cleveland downtown just a couple weeks ago and there were several VERY prominent billboards in prime locations promoting the PA games to OH residents.

    So if they’re not totally clueless (still a distinct possibility of course) the OH people really *should* realize they’re mainly competing with the great PA games, and therefore they *should* be decent games, in theory…

  • Automatic Monkey

     

    Quote: moo321 said:
    Harrah’s isn’t all bad. I know of some Harrah’s properties that have decent 3-2 single deck.

    Plenty of playable games at Harrah’s properties. Maybe not in Vegas, but Vegas is not a prime destination for counters anymore anyway.

  • 21forme

     

    Quote: jaygruden said:
    With the first of four new Ohio casinos set to open in 4 months,

    Where did you get info they are opening in 4 months?

    I looked up the web sites of the Columbus and Cinci casinos and both say late 2012.

  • jaygruden

     

    Quote: 21forme said:
    Where did you get info they are opening in 4 months?

    I looked up the web sites of the Columbus and Cinci casinos and both say late 2012.

    If all goes as planned, the Cleveland casino is set to open on March 26, 2012 – this is the first of the four to open…..

    http://500nations.com/casinos/ohClevelandCasino.asp (Link is dead)

  • PonyPrincess

     

    Quote: sagefr0g said:
    would it be a safe bet to predict that the Cincinnati casino won’t be worth a crap far as blackjack goes, since it is primarily gonna be managed by Harrahs?

    The only safe bet if it’s going to be managed by Harrah’s is that it will be run poorly, for better or worse.

  • blackchipjim

    cleverland casino

    Just for the record the casino if it does open in march 2012 will be a temp casino that will be housed in the old Higbee’s building. If you don’t know, Higbee’s it was a department store like May co. before Macy’s took it over. If it opens on time the Cleverland Police are no where ready for the criminals that will be ready.

  • creeping panther

    Jim

    Quote: blackchipjim said:
    Just for the record the casino if it does open in march 2012 will be a temp casino that will be housed in the old Higbee’s building. If you don’t know, Higbee’s it was a department store like May co. before Macy’s took it over. If it opens on time the Cleverland Police are no where ready for the criminals that will be ready.

    Detroit did the same thing and the temporary casinos were just fine.

    Between you, the casino security and the police, I think the criminals will get their asses kicked. Let us not live in constant fear, turn the tables, be prepared.

    CP

  • ChefJJ

     

    Quote: PonyPrincess said:
    The only safe bet if it’s going to be managed by Harrah’s is that it will be run poorly, for better or worse.

    I disagree. Like AM noted, it’s all about what location you’re at.

  • Coyote

     

    If competitive pressure is the key to good games, then I suspect Cleveland will have the best games.

    I think there are too many ploppies in this world for the casinos to feed on that they will still try to extract every dollar they can from the tables!

    That being said, it is our job to make sure our game is dialed in for any opportunity!

  • 21forme

     

    Quote: Coyote said:
    If competitive pressure is the key to good games, then I suspect Cleveland will have the best games.

    there is no such thing as competitive pressure in the casino biz. Look at AC vs. eastern PA, for example.

  • tthree

     

    Quote: 21forme said:
    there is no such thing as competitive pressure in the casino biz. Look at AC vs. eastern PA, for example.

    Last I looked AC was dead and Pa you had trouble finding a vacant chair. Is that not the definition of competitive pressure? If AC execs are to stupid to compete they can continue to loose revenue and close casinos during the week giving the few steady customers that are left a reason to give Pa casinos a look. Once they do AC casinos become a fading memory.

  • moo321

     

    Quote: 21forme said:
    there is no such thing as competitive pressure in the casino biz. Look at AC vs. eastern PA, for example.

    What? Have you compared the promos available in, say, Vegas and Tunica with the promos available at an isolated casino in the middle of nowhere Indiana or West Virginia? There’s a massive difference.

    Big markets have cheap buffets, free buffet after 30 minutes of play, match plays for new players, 2 to 1 on suited blackjack promos, etc.

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