Soaring Eagle

  • cgy606

    Soaring Eagle

    I was wondering, if I wanted to spread vary wildly at a 6:5 SD game (like 1-12 or 1-16), how much heat would I get?

  • creeping panther

    Hard to tell

    Quote: cgy606 said:
    I was wondering, if I wanted to spread vary wildly at a 6:5 SD game (like 1-12 or 1-16), how much heat would I get?

    cgy, really depends, I think a hit and run of no more than 45 min, and you could get heads up.

    Tell me when so I can watch from a safe distance

    CP

  • DBJT

    Can’t Say for Soaring Eagle, but…

    Can’t say what would happen at Soaring Eagle as I haven’t tried it there, but IMHO in Vegas 6:5 single deck games, the pit often believes it to be unbeatable. So they often hardly give it a second look.

    If you hit and run, you can pull off some outrageous stuff with impunity, LOL.

    I’ve counted down SD games there (even back counting) to the occasional MONSTER SD count (think +18, even +20 LOL) such that the remaining 2/3rds of the deck are nearly 60% all 10 & Aces.

    Tossing out a stack of black when that moment arrives (even after noodling around on the game with just REDS for over an hour) in such circumstances often gets a knowing grin from the dealer (if she’s friendly) but never the kind of heat that you’d get trying a stunt like that on a normal game, LOL.

    Of course it’s still always a good idea to take a break AFTER something like that goes down (even if you lose the hand, or more likely push twenties!)

    And you have to wait a LONG time before you get those opportunities (it tries your patience being bled slowly on such an otherwise crappy game, but hopefully it’s just nickels or even DOLLAR units being sacrificed) BUT when it does happen, and you get that sweet NATURAL that you KNEW was coming, it’s a nice hit even at the reduced 6/5 payoff on the stack ‘o black, LOL.

    Overall, 6:5 still sucks monkey balls however. Best situation is still to apply the above on a good ol’ fashioned REAL 3:2 SD game.

    Gawd, I love the Sweaty Spaniard, LOL…

    Been away too long: maybe time to book a trip downtown LV, heh.

    P.S. I did get backed off at 4 Queens once, doing basically this… not “spreading” exactly 1-16 but more like Hit&Running spread 1 nickel unit to plunger 80 units ($400) on those monster counts when I just KNEW the dealer was standing there holding a handful of all paint cards. That time, it was last day of my trip and I was playing unrated and didn’t really care if I was tapped ‘cuz I knew I was not gonna be back in town for at least several months. The pit critter who tapped me and escorted me to the cage was actually kind of laughing as he showed me the door… heh

    P.P.S. Heh, just for reference now I checked it by editing the deck in CV to a +18 condition. Player edge 9.20%…

  • creeping panther

    Dbjt

    Very cool post!

    Good info.

    CP

  • 21gunsalute

     

    Quote: DBJT said:
    Can’t say what would happen at Soaring Eagle as I haven’t tried it there, but IMHO in Vegas 6:5 single deck games, the pit often believes it to be unbeatable. So they often hardly give it a second look.

    If you hit and run, you can pull off some outrageous stuff with impunity, LOL.

    I’ve counted down SD games there (even back counting) to the occasional MONSTER SD count (think +18, even +20 LOL) such that the remaining 2/3rds of the deck are nearly 60% all 10 & Aces.

    This must have been done years ago because now if you enter after the first hand has been played they hold you to table minimum until they shuffle.

  • 21gunsalute

     

    I believe this post also contains way too much public information.

  • creeping panther

    Dbjt

    DBJT has done something, very virtual, concerning taking action about giving too much info on a public board, far, far beyond talking and complaining about it.

    At the Bash, those there, will get a first hand example of it.

    CP

  • DBJT

     

    21Gun, as I noted it’s been a while since I was in NV (long enough however that I don’t think this post gives away any useful info) but I wouldn’t say it was “yearS” ago… just “long enough”.

    And, no, at that time in this particular shop (not necessarily where I mentioned the backoff story was) there was no restriction on mid-deck entry on the 6:5 crap carnival games. Maybe there is now, some places. Not sure.

    But, no, the pit really pretty much ignored those games, at that time, in my experience, believing them to be basically unbeatable. Or perhaps just not worth the effort.

    And they may be right actually.

    -CJ

    P.S. By the way just ‘cuz I said the backoff story was at 4 Queens doesn’t really mean it was, ya know. Could have been at Binions across the street. Or maybe Lake Tahoe. Does that change the story’s point?

  • blackriver

     

    Didn’t add to the story either. if you included a meal description it wouldn’t add anything and for this reason I would assume it was true.

  • 21gunsalute

     

    Quote: DBJT said:
    21Gun, as I noted it’s been a while since I was in NV (long enough however that I don’t think this post gives away any useful info) but I wouldn’t say it was “yearS” ago… just “long enough”.

    And, no, at that time in this particular shop (not necessarily where I mentioned the backoff story was) there was no restriction on mid-deck entry on the 6:5 crap carnival games. Maybe there is now, some places. Not sure.

    But, no, the pit really pretty much ignored those games, at that time, in my experience, believing them to be basically unbeatable. Or perhaps just not worth the effort.

    And they may be right actually.

    -CJ

    P.S. By the way just ‘cuz I said the backoff story was at 4 Queens doesn’t really mean it was, ya know. Could have been at Binions across the street. Or maybe Lake Tahoe. Does that change the story’s point?

    Sorry. I read this very early in the morning and I actually misread what I thought you were saying. I thought you were saying you’d done this @ Soaring Eagle. Oops!

  • Southpaw

     

    Quote: 21gunsalute said:
    I believe this post also contains way too much public information.
    Quote: DBJT said:
    P.S. By the way just ‘cuz I said the backoff story was at 4 Queens doesn’t really mean it was, ya know. Could have been at Binions across the street. Or maybe Lake Tahoe. Does that change the story’s point?
    Quote: 21gunsalute said:
    Sorry. I read this very early in the morning and I actually misread what I thought you were saying. I thought you were saying you’d done this @ Soaring Eagle. Oops!

    Sounds more like a territorial issue than one of too much information being discussed publicly.

    My two-cents,

    Spaw

  • 21gunsalute

     

    Quote: Southpaw said:
    Sounds more like a territorial issue than one of too much information being discussed publicly.

    My two-cents,

    Spaw

    No, I simply misread his post. And the TMI information was for the OP who was basically telling exactly what he intended to do at a specific location. If they’re viewing that would make it very easy for them to be on the lookout.

  • DBJT

     

    Quote: 21gunsalute said:
    No, I simply misread his post. And the TMI information was for the OP who was basically telling exactly what he intended to do at a specific location. If they’re viewing that would make it very easy for them to be on the lookout.

    Aha… well actually I’d agree with that.

  • Coyote

     

    Quote: cgy606 said:
    I was wondering, if I wanted to spread vary wildly at a 6:5 SD game (like 1-12 or 1-16), how much heat would I get?

    I have seen some wild stuff on the 6:5!

  • cgy606

     

    Quote: Coyote said:
    I have seen some wild stuff on the 6:5!

    Can you please PM me on how “wild” that stuff is.

  • creeping panther

    Or

    Quote: cgy606 said:
    Can you please PM me on how “wild” that stuff is.

    You can wait some and then talk to each other in person

    CP

  • somtum

     

    You’ll make more per hour with a 1:16 spread on the shoe games there than 1:16 spread the 6:5 single deck game if your only relying on straight counting.

  • cgy606

     

    Quote: somtum said:
    You’ll make more per hour with a 1:16 spread on the shoe games there than 1:16 spread the 6:5 single deck game if your only relying on straight counting.

    Not true. What are the rules and the pen in the shoe game? In SD, as long as the Pen is 30% or more, you will get a high frequency of favorable counts then in a 6D with 70-75% Pen. All the rules do are change the pivot point in your betting ramp (e.g. in a 6D S17+DAS+LS+RSA, using Zen, you pivot is at TC +1 meaning at TC of +2 you should bet 2 units, ect. In a SD H17 6:5 (rules worse then this particular store), your pivot is +4 meaning you should bet 2 units at +5). And as we all know, pen is more important than rules (Even 6:5 on SD compared to 3:2 on a shoe). Of course what I want to know is, how does the heat in each situation compare to the other.

  • 21gunsalute

     

    Quote: cgy606 said:
    In SD, as long as the Pen is 30% or more, you will get a high frequency of favorable counts then in a 6D with 70-75% Pen.

    30% pen and 6/5 on Naturals? Yup, you can’t beat that…bet table max every hand!

  • cgy606

     

    Quote: 21gunsalute said:
    30% pen and 6/5 on Naturals? Yup, you can’t beat that…bet table max every hand!

    Dude, you need to learn to read between the lines. I didn’t say you can beat a 6/5 game with 30% pen (you need at least 50% pen with a 1-12 spread min and the ability to jump bets at least 4-5X between rounds). What I did say is that you will get a higher frequency of favorable counts because it is a single deck. That doesn’t mean they will be as profitable because a SD game is more volatile, now you see it, now you don’t. In a shoe game, you have to bet, and bet, and bet, until once out of every 3 or 4 shoes a count develops. But when it does, it lasts.

  • 21gunsalute

     

    Quote: cgy606 said:
    Dude, you need to learn to read between the lines. I didn’t say you can beat a 6/5 game with 30% pen (you need at least 50% pen with a 1-12 spread min and the ability to jump bets at least 4-5X between rounds). What I did say is that you will get a higher frequency of favorable counts because it is a single deck. That doesn’t mean they will be as profitable because a SD game is more volatile, now you see it, now you don’t. In a shoe game, you have to bet, and bet, and bet, until once out of every 3 or 4 shoes a count develops. But when it does, it lasts.

    30% pen is 17 cards. Good luck with that. You’re going to need it…especially playing 6/5.

  • cgy606

     

    Quote: 21gunsalute said:
    30% pen is 17 cards. Good luck with that. You’re going to need it…especially playing 6/5.

    Wow, it is hard to believe that you are an AP and can’t read!!! I said you need at least 50% pen (and a 1-12 spread with jumps) which would be 26 cards (I hope your math is good but just in case it isn’t I got 26 by dividing 52 by 2 or multiplying 52 by 0.5) NOT 17!!! Please do not comment further on “what you believe about this game”, rather would such a spread and jumps cause heat on a SD 6:5 game.

  • SandBaggins

     

    Quote: “cgy606″:

    Wow, it is hard to believe that you are an AP and can’t read!!! I said you need at least 50% pen (and a 1-12 spread with jumps) which would be 26 cards (I hope your math is good but just in case it isn’t I got 26 by dividing 52 by 2 or multiplying 52 by 0.5) NOT 17!!! Please do not comment further on “what you believe about this game”, rather would such a spread and jumps cause heat on a SD 6:5 game.

    Am I missing something? Why are you so angry?

  • paddywhack

     

    Quote: cgy606 said:
    I was wondering, if I wanted to spread vary wildly at a 6:5 SD game (like 1-12 or 1-16), how much heat would I get?
    Quote: cgy606 said:
    Please do not comment further on “what you believe about this game”, rather would such a spread and jumps cause heat on a SD 6:5 game.

    I’ll bite (and I hope you don’t bite back )

    It depends…..

  • 21gunsalute

     

    Quote: cgy606 said:
    Wow, it is hard to believe that you are an AP and can’t read!!! I said you need at least 50% pen (and a 1-12 spread with jumps) which would be 26 cards (I hope your math is good but just in case it isn’t I got 26 by dividing 52 by 2 or multiplying 52 by 0.5) NOT 17!!! Please do not comment further on “what you believe about this game”, rather would such a spread and jumps cause heat on a SD 6:5 game.
    Quote: cgy606 said:
    In SD, as long as the Pen is 30% or more, you will get a high frequency of favorable counts then in a 6D with 70-75% Pen.

    Nothing wrong with my reading. Check your attitude at the door please. How do you expect anyone to give you any help when you come off acting like an ungrateful blowhard? 6/5 is a terrible game any way you slice it up. Why would you insist on playing such a game and spreading wildly when there are so many better games offered in the region? Why not try the DD @ Firekeepers where they won’t bat an eye if you spread 1-20?

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