Starting a blackjack team from USA(University of South Alabama)

  • RocDav

    Starting a blackjack team from USA(University of South Alabama)

    I’m a student at USA and I don’t see why if MIT can have a blackjack team, why a school that’s 45 minutes away from casinos that have good game rules shouldn’t be able to have a team as well. It’s all about finding the right person to fund the team, and I just don’t know who that person would be.

    My personal bankroll sucks, as does every college student’s that don’t have mommy and daddy paying for their education and cars and living arrangements. If I could play blackjack on the weekends and make $200,000 using an investors money and keep 5% of the winnings, that’d be more than I can make in a month.

    All I need is someone who can train, has the bankroll needed to fund a team, and I can provide all the students you need. Let’s put freakin’ Mobile, AL on the national blackjack map.

  • moo321

     

    Yikes, I hope this is just a troll. Why would someone trust you with money? Do you know how to count cards?

  • RocDav

     

    Ok. Money is the final end product. All I want NOW is a team. A group of dedicated people that would be willing to meet and train on a nearly daily basis, to become good blackjack players. I don’t want money initially. I want to gain skills so that I know whatever money I personally invest is being played at the best possible times, with the highest probablity of actually winning more than what was invested. Synergy. That’s all I want.

  • Dyepaintball12

     

    I did this exact same thing at my college. I actually put up fliers (with the same exact words as the original MIT fliers :P) and made a few posts on-line and rented out a classroom one day and got about 25 kids to show up.

    I explained what was up and lots were interested and then it wittled down further and further and I was left with around 5 kids. Our investor eventually fell off the face of the earth but we pooled money and played a few times. Good times.

    Then I met people from this forum and said F those other kids they are the worst haha

  • moo321

     

    Running a team is really damn hard.

  • blackjackomaha

     

    Quote: moo321 said:
    Running a team is really damn hard.

    Agreed. I attempted to put one together a few years ago. It was a small group – 6 people. After months of practicing, one by one, each decided it wasn’t for them. The last remaining players, who had shown glimpses of skill, didn’t want to play part time.

    (Most) Members of this forum are leagues ahead of anyone you would attempt to train. Being an AP isn’t only learning how to play – you have to want to do it, have the mindset to get past negative sessions, and create a unique playing style that allows you to play various conditions.

  • zengrifter

     

    Quote: RocDav said:
    If I could play blackjack on the weekends and make $200,000 using an investors money and keep 5% of the winnings, that’d be more than I can make in a month.

    Do you have potential prospective investors? zg

  • Gamblor

     

    Quote: zengrifter said:
    Do you have potential prospective investors? zg

    I think the MIT investors broke up because they figured out they could get higher returns from other investments, for example real estate?

    Having said that, if I was an investor, an AP team might be an interesting way to diversify my investments, its performance having absolutely zero correlation to any financial market or commodity (maybe inflation would be bad for an investment in AP play too). But can only imagine the hassle and costs of running a team, including costs that will eat into your profits.

  • HsiaoDi

     

    I love how everyone is humoring him…
    First if all, because they were mit kids.. secondly, no one in their right mind will just invest in a group of college kids without any proof that you are good at what you do… moreover, bankroll still a huge problem for you. Don’t think you will be making 5% of 200k using someone’s money anytime soon.

    Hate to be such a downer, but seriously, read some of the available books out there. EBay is your friend so is amazon, 5 bucks plus shipping is very little to pay for someone who wants to make 10k a weekend. All the books have at least a little section on how to form a team, how you should train, how to share profit etc.
    There are stickies in this forum for a reason. There are plenty of pros on this site, but this is your experience YOU are the one who has to explore all the options there, at least have some ideas before you just come to cyberspace and demand people to help you or point you to the next step….. (rant over, bad day at work….)

  • Gamblor

     

    Quote: HsiaoDi said:
    I love how everyone is humoring him…

    I think Jack Black’s response pretty much summed up everyone’s reaction

  • Dyepaintball12

     

    Quote: Gamblor said:
    I think the MIT investors broke up because they figured out they could get higher returns from other investments, for example real estate?

    Having said that, if I was an investor, an AP team might be an interesting way to diversify my investments, its performance having absolutely zero correlation to any financial market or commodity (maybe inflation would be bad for an investment in AP play too). But can only imagine the hassle and costs of running a team, including costs that will eat into your profits.

    Investing in an AP team can be EXTREMELY profitable. That being said, investing in a strictly card-counting team can be rough. The BP Method isn’t such a big secret anymore and laying down huge spreads is not really a longevity-building practice. And the variance is huge.

  • FrankieT

     

    Quote: Dyepaintball12 said:
    Investing in an AP team can be EXTREMELY profitable. That being said, investing in a strictly card-counting team can be rough. The BP Method isn’t such a big secret anymore and laying down huge spreads is not really a longevity-building practice. And the variance is huge.

    Playing with a team is way better than playing solo. Solo play variance is way worse compared to teamplay – obviously the fact that you can acquire a massive amount of played hands with a team makes the variance a hundred times more tolerable than solo play, although I have read of entire teams of 10-20 players having losing quarters.

  • Dyepaintball12

     

    Quote: FrankieT said:
    Playing with a team is way better than playing solo. Solo play variance is way worse compared to teamplay – obviously the fact that you can acquire a massive amount of played hands with a team makes the variance a hundred times more tolerable than solo play, although I have read of entire teams of 10-20 players having losing quarters.

    It depends what kind of team you’re talking about. Yeah, an EMFH team that has lots of players can get an amazing amount of hours and hit N0 quickly. But a BP team with only one or two BPs getting 30 hands/hr max can be rough. Especially with BIG bets.

  • Sonny

     

    Quote: FrankieT said:
    Playing with a team is way better than playing solo.

    It depends on the team. I’d rather play solo than play on a team that had even one weak player*, let alone a team full of newbies. That’s probably the main reason that the OP isn’t going to get any serious replies.

    -Sonny-

    *Channeling Grouch Marx, I would never join a team that would have me as a member.

  • Automatic Monkey

     

    Quote: Sonny said:
    It depends on the team. I’d rather play solo than play on a team that had even one weak player*, let alone a team full of newbies. That’s probably the main reason that the OP isn’t going to get any serious replies.

    I don’t know. Like everything else, I think “It depends.”

    Pooling resources is a good way for a group of inexperienced guys to learn together and maximize their EV in the process. A team approach where you always play in pairs has a lot of advantages, and one of them being that a team member whose play is unacceptable will quickly be identified, as he has paired with everyone else on the team at some time and they all say he is NFG.

  • Gamblor

     

    Quote: Dyepaintball12 said:
    Investing in an AP team can be EXTREMELY profitable. That being said, investing in a strictly card-counting team can be rough. The BP Method isn’t such a big secret anymore and laying down huge spreads is not really a longevity-building practice. And the variance is huge.

    Right, sure there’s some forms of AP where the advantage is much higher than CC’ing.

  • Gamblor

     

    Quote: Automatic Monkey said:
    A team approach where you always play in pairs has a lot of advantages.

    Yep, you can get certain advantages playing with others that you would not get playing solo.

  • FrankieT

     

    Quote: dyepaintball12 said:
    it depends what kind of team you’re talking about. Yeah, an emfh team that has lots of players can get an amazing amount of hours and hit n0 quickly. But a bp team with only one or two bps getting 30 hands/hr max can be rough. Especially with big bets.

    emfh?

  • MoldedTruths

    Lol

    Read up on what “no mid-shoe entry” and “bad penetration” means to an MIT-style card counting team and then take a little tour through the dump casinos in your locale. You’ll see what a silly idea this is.

  • RocDav

     

    There are no investors and no one willing to train at this time. Anyone who wanted to invest, for the next few months the main investment would be time for training the players in whatever style seemed fit. I’m all for learning different strategies than the BP with spotters at the table. It’s old. I’m still reading and learning new things everyday. I think it would accelerate the process to have like-minded individuals to talk to and play “practice” blackjack with. So if there is someone who is interested let me know. I don’t think I can PM yet, but friend me and we can talk later.

  • Tarzan

    Stanley Steamer

    I was entertaining at my home and the woman in question saw my cat and said, “Oh how cute… What’s it’s name?” “I call him Stanley. He ended up with that name because sometimes he doesn’t use the litter box and leaves a giant steamer there on the carpet someplace and you end up with a Stanley Steamer!”

    What does this have to do with a card-counting team you may ask? Plenty when you really think about it. I am unfamiliar with the intricacies of a card-counting team first hand but have read about it out of books published long ago that are a little out of touch with today’s blackjack games available, which are for the most part unplayable. What was quite feasible back in the 80’s is not applicable today. Back in the 80’s you could be a lone player that is a good counter using a basic count and has a few thousand backing him and be somewhat successful. You could be part of a (functional and successful) team and really do well. That same person would fail miserably in today’s blackjack environment.

    Why does this not work today? It’s for multiple reasons some of which are as follows:

    Actual ability- There’s a lot of people out there that think they are more talented than they truly are. I have seen some of this first hand and a cold, hard dose of reality will kick in eventually on that one. A chain is only as strong as it’s weakest link, so figuring out who the weak links are on a novice team could end up being quite costly the way I see it. This game involves dealing with fractions of percentage points and the smallest of errors have huge effects. Who’s going to be the one to drop a big “steamer” onto the carpet.

    Work ethic- Most people these days, particularly younger people have little resolve and work ethic. They want things nice and easy with no difficult hurdles. They want it all handed to them hassle free and will stop short of following through with the effort required for success. I studied hard and had an advanced count down to a science long before I ever walked into my first casino. I was devoted to being the best I could possibly be. Who’s going to be too lazy to go all the way to the litter box?

    Modern blackjack- The game has become more difficult for anyone across the board and some of the ideal conditions for team play that existed years ago no longer exist today. Many games today are unplayable by any standards, whether as an individual or by any team play. Who’s going to not know where the litter box is?

    Honesty and integrity- Back to that weakest link thing… Anti-trust issues and concerns about “chips going south” occur. I’ve read stories of the use of lie-detector tests on team members (which are useless and easily beaten if you know how), I’ve heard of suspicions that caused rifts, etc. Greed and stupidity often override common sense. Who is going to intentionally miss the litter box and leave a “steamer” or two over behind it someplace?

    I don’t actually know anything about team play because I have never been part of a team and only read about it. I have read and heard about lots of problems with it all though. Here’s my take on this and how I look at it though. As a novice player, you have to develop, gain experience and be an incredibly proficient player to be part of a team. Here’s the “catch 22″ of it all, the paradox… If you have developed into an extremely proficient player, worthy of being on a team it means you have been successful financially. If you are successful financially, then why do you need a team? Playing as an individual means you get all the profits instead of a mere percentage. I understand the concept of lowering fluctuations/variance but the price you pay for this is getting a piece of the pie instead of the whole pie! I personally would never be on a team. I just have no need of it, most of the players I know of up to and including professional players use an inferior count to my own and I have sufficient bankroll that I need not worry about variance issues. Being identified as being part of a team can be detrimental to your longevity and can cause you to have to travel a wider geographical range, hence additional travel expenses. This could cause you to make the same money playing at higher stakes, (hence more exposure) to make what you would make in a smaller geographical area at lower stakes as an individual in theory.

    Would I trust some novice players with my money? No. Would I think a group of half-assed hi-lo players could be effective enough to be worth tying up any of my bankroll? No. Would I have full faith that the honesty and integrity factor is a non-issue? No. Would I want to be bothered with any involvement in such an endeavor in any capacity at all? No.

    There are people on this site that know a lot more about this than I. I have always been a lone player and in my early years didn’t know any other professional players and only read about them. By the time I had lots of experience and could have easily qualified to be on a team, I had a sufficient bankroll that I had no need for such a thing, along with my career not allowing the time to devote to such a thing full time. Perhaps some of the people that are familiar with team play, have experienced it or know more about it could paint a rosier picture than all this and throw me their take on my “catch 22″ paradox?

  • b jay cobbson

    Reply to "Stanley Steamer" – POM

    Excellent posting Tarzan. On Wong’s site it would surely in “Post of the Month” and win the $100 bounty. Congratulations!!

    B Jay Cobbson

  • RocDav

     

    Quote: Tarzan said:
    I was entertaining at my home and the woman in question saw my cat and said, “Oh how cute… What’s it’s name?” “I call him Stanley. He ended up with that name because sometimes he doesn’t use the litter box and leaves a giant steamer there on the carpet someplace and you end up with a Stanley Steamer!”

    What does this have to do with a card-counting team you may ask? Plenty when you really think about it. I am unfamiliar with the intricacies of a card-counting team first hand but have read about it out of books published long ago that are a little out of touch with today’s blackjack games available, which are for the most part unplayable. What was quite feasible back in the 80’s is not applicable today. Back in the 80’s you could be a lone player that is a good counter using a basic count and has a few thousand backing him and be somewhat successful. You could be part of a (functional and successful) team and really do well. That same person would fail miserably in today’s blackjack environment.

    Why does this not work today? It’s for multiple reasons some of which are as follows:

    Actual ability- There’s a lot of people out there that think they are more talented than they truly are. I have seen some of this first hand and a cold, hard dose of reality will kick in eventually on that one. A chain is only as strong as it’s weakest link, so figuring out who the weak links are on a novice team could end up being quite costly the way I see it. This game involves dealing with fractions of percentage points and the smallest of errors have huge effects. Who’s going to be the one to drop a big “steamer” onto the carpet.

    Work ethic- Most people these days, particularly younger people have little resolve and work ethic. They want things nice and easy with no difficult hurdles. They want it all handed to them hassle free and will stop short of following through with the effort required for success. I studied hard and had an advanced count down to a science long before I ever walked into my first casino. I was devoted to being the best I could possibly be. Who’s going to be too lazy to go all the way to the litter box?

    Modern blackjack- The game has become more difficult for anyone across the board and some of the ideal conditions for team play that existed years ago no longer exist today. Many games today are unplayable by any standards, whether as an individual or by any team play. Who’s going to not know where the litter box is?

    Honesty and integrity- Back to that weakest link thing… Anti-trust issues and concerns about “chips going south” occur. I’ve read stories of the use of lie-detector tests on team members (which are useless and easily beaten if you know how), I’ve heard of suspicions that caused rifts, etc. Greed and stupidity often override common sense. Who is going to intentionally miss the litter box and leave a “steamer” or two over behind it someplace?

    I don’t actually know anything about team play because I have never been part of a team and only read about it. I have read and heard about lots of problems with it all though. Here’s my take on this and how I look at it though. As a novice player, you have to develop, gain experience and be an incredibly proficient player to be part of a team. Here’s the “catch 22″ of it all, the paradox… If you have developed into an extremely proficient player, worthy of being on a team it means you have been successful financially. If you are successful financially, then why do you need a team? Playing as an individual means you get all the profits instead of a mere percentage. I understand the concept of lowering fluctuations/variance but the price you pay for this is getting a piece of the pie instead of the whole pie! I personally would never be on a team. I just have no need of it, most of the players I know of up to and including professional players use an inferior count to my own and I have sufficient bankroll that I need not worry about variance issues. Being identified as being part of a team can be detrimental to your longevity and can cause you to have to travel a wider geographical range, hence additional travel expenses. This could cause you to make the same money playing at higher stakes, (hence more exposure) to make what you would make in a smaller geographical area at lower stakes as an individual in theory.

    Would I trust some novice players with my money? No. Would I think a group of half-assed hi-lo players could be effective enough to be worth tying up any of my bankroll? No. Would I have full faith that the honesty and integrity factor is a non-issue? No. Would I want to be bothered with any involvement in such an endeavor in any capacity at all? No.

    There are people on this site that know a lot more about this than I. I have always been a lone player and in my early years didn’t know any other professional players and only read about them. By the time I had lots of experience and could have easily qualified to be on a team, I had a sufficient bankroll that I had no need for such a thing, along with my career not allowing the time to devote to such a thing full time. Perhaps some of the people that are familiar with team play, have experienced it or know more about it could paint a rosier picture than all this and throw me their take on my “catch 22″ paradox?

    The catch 22 is correct. But in my mind, that’s not what team play is about. It’s about individual development. If somebody came up to me and handed me 2million dollars today and told me to go play blackjack with it and win, I would hand the money back and say, “I need to be trained first.”

    I think we all got off on the wrong foot when I mentioned money in my very first post on this website. What I really want is training, to show that I am proficient in my training, and then to use my training to go out to real venues and make real money. I can read books till my eyes fall out, but I’m more of a hands on kind of person. That’s why I bought twelve decks of cards, two sets of chips, and will order a shoe pretty soon. I just want somebody to play with that knows what they are doing, or at least somebody better than my girlfriend and her two daughters. They aren’t interested in long-term wins, they just want to have fun. I think its fun to focus on long-term wins. I am a young person, with a strong work ethic, who would give anything to make somebody big amounts of money in exchange for training and 5% of whatever the winnings were. But first, I have to know if making big amounts of money is even possible, and figure out how big a bankroll is needed to have the EV to where it would be profitable for both the investor and myself and other team members.

The BlackjackInfo Knowledge Base contains over 200,000 messages posted by the BlackjackInfo community.

Posting and replies to the knowledge base are no longer available, but comments and replies are welcomed on the blog.