how much advantage of Aces
- Thread starter beyondbj
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Ace odds!
That is what card counting is about if the first round of the deck countains no aces there will be a better chance that you will get an ace in the second round than normal. You could have maybe a 2% advantage at that point having no other knowledge of the cards.
If you have a first card is an Ace coupon you have a 48% advantage bet the max the coupon will allow.
That is what card counting is about if the first round of the deck countains no aces there will be a better chance that you will get an ace in the second round than normal. You could have maybe a 2% advantage at that point having no other knowledge of the cards.
If you have a first card is an Ace coupon you have a 48% advantage bet the max the coupon will allow.
NO.
In a single deck game, with good rules, the "Ace-Five Count"
(in which Aces and Fives are used for a Simple Balanced Count)
you can gain an advantage IF (and only IF) it is dealt deeply.
This is the oldest of all counts.
It is very weak in a game with 2 decks.
It is of almost NO value against 4+ decks.
The novice Card Counter should be aware that the more
powerful Card Counting Systems employ an Ace Side-Count for
single and double deck games. i.e. Hi-Opt I, Hi-Opt II, Advanced Omega II.
In a single deck game, with good rules, the "Ace-Five Count"
(in which Aces and Fives are used for a Simple Balanced Count)
you can gain an advantage IF (and only IF) it is dealt deeply.
This is the oldest of all counts.
It is very weak in a game with 2 decks.
It is of almost NO value against 4+ decks.
The novice Card Counter should be aware that the more
powerful Card Counting Systems employ an Ace Side-Count for
single and double deck games. i.e. Hi-Opt I, Hi-Opt II, Advanced Omega II.
Listen carefully to anything Pro21 has to say. He won't steer you wrong.
Do you mean that your chance of getting an ace on the next hand is 10% plus the ordinary chance of getting an ace that you would have had anyway? That would be a good situation. It's not quite as good as knowing specifically that you have a 10% greater chance of getting an ace as your first card, or that you have a 10% greater chance of getting an ace as your second card. But as a ballpark figure, it's going to increase your expectation on the hand by something on the order of 5% of the amount of your bet.
Or do you mean that your chance of getting an ace is increased by 10% of what your chance would have been anyway? Your usual chance of getting an ace as one or both of your initial two cards is on the order of 15%. Increasing this to about 16.5% obviously isn't nearly as good as the first scenario.
Your question is a little surprising, because most advantage play methods will tell the player that his chance of receiving an ace on a particular hand is increased by either a much smaller or a much larger amount than you say.
Do you mean that your chance of getting an ace on the next hand is 10% plus the ordinary chance of getting an ace that you would have had anyway? That would be a good situation. It's not quite as good as knowing specifically that you have a 10% greater chance of getting an ace as your first card, or that you have a 10% greater chance of getting an ace as your second card. But as a ballpark figure, it's going to increase your expectation on the hand by something on the order of 5% of the amount of your bet.
Or do you mean that your chance of getting an ace is increased by 10% of what your chance would have been anyway? Your usual chance of getting an ace as one or both of your initial two cards is on the order of 15%. Increasing this to about 16.5% obviously isn't nearly as good as the first scenario.
Your question is a little surprising, because most advantage play methods will tell the player that his chance of receiving an ace on a particular hand is increased by either a much smaller or a much larger amount than you say.
Lets say you strictly counted aces. Normally the chance of you getting dealt at least one ace is roughly 85%. This is when the precentage of cards in the deck that are aces is 7.7%. What if the precentage of cards in the deck that are aces becomes 10%, does the player then have the advantage or is the house advantage only reduced at that point?
You need to understand what is known as "E.O.R." The "Effect of Removal".
It means the effect upon your expectation of winning/losing as it is continually altered by particular cards being depleted.
The Aces and the Fives are the most powerful cards re: altering the expectation of the game.
If you were playing a Single Deck game with Double any Two Cards and Double after Split, with the dealer either standing on or hitting his Soft 17's, your game would be a "break even" proposition.
IF there was a Ace removed the game would instantly deteriorate into a game where the player is at a serious disadvantage of about .5%
If the removed card was a FIVE the player would have an instantaneous advantage of about .5%
The most meaningless card is the EIGHT, which has but a miniscule effect (as a high card).
Of course these examples are for an all but extinct Single Deck game.
In a shoe game the effect of a single card is miniscule.
To thoroughly understand this crucial concept I suggest reading an inexpensive book (and seminal work) - Theory of Blackjack by Peter Griffin (preferably the 6th edition)
Effect of Removal is "crucial" - as it is the central star about which the game of Blackjack orbits.
Theory of BJ has extensive tables to look up any player hand vs. any dealer "upcard" - and not only learn the % difference in expectation when you do (or don't) play by Basic Strategy; but you will view the effect of removal of any rank of card for that particular hand. Many surprises await you there.
Reading through these tables a few times will accelerate your growth as an Advantage Player as you will have attained a new depth of understanding of the game.
It means the effect upon your expectation of winning/losing as it is continually altered by particular cards being depleted.
The Aces and the Fives are the most powerful cards re: altering the expectation of the game.
If you were playing a Single Deck game with Double any Two Cards and Double after Split, with the dealer either standing on or hitting his Soft 17's, your game would be a "break even" proposition.
IF there was a Ace removed the game would instantly deteriorate into a game where the player is at a serious disadvantage of about .5%
If the removed card was a FIVE the player would have an instantaneous advantage of about .5%
The most meaningless card is the EIGHT, which has but a miniscule effect (as a high card).
Of course these examples are for an all but extinct Single Deck game.
In a shoe game the effect of a single card is miniscule.
To thoroughly understand this crucial concept I suggest reading an inexpensive book (and seminal work) - Theory of Blackjack by Peter Griffin (preferably the 6th edition)
Effect of Removal is "crucial" - as it is the central star about which the game of Blackjack orbits.
Theory of BJ has extensive tables to look up any player hand vs. any dealer "upcard" - and not only learn the % difference in expectation when you do (or don't) play by Basic Strategy; but you will view the effect of removal of any rank of card for that particular hand. Many surprises await you there.
Reading through these tables a few times will accelerate your growth as an Advantage Player as you will have attained a new depth of understanding of the game.
iCountNTrack said:
" ... an expert card counter such as yourself should know that an Ace side count is NOT that important for pitch games when using an ace neutral count"
An Ace Side Count is for use ONLY in a pitch game with a non Ace Reckoned Count. Your term "ace neutral" is not a commonly used expression in discussions of card counting.
Define your terms.
" ... an expert card counter such as yourself should know that an Ace side count is NOT that important for pitch games when using an ace neutral count"
An Ace Side Count is for use ONLY in a pitch game with a non Ace Reckoned Count. Your term "ace neutral" is not a commonly used expression in discussions of card counting.
Define your terms.
I beg to differ but RPC is an Ace reckoned count which uses an ASC in pitch games as described by Revere in Playing BJ as a Business.
Per BJ21.com glossary:
Ace neutral count. Any counting system which does not assign a value to aces.
Ace reckoned count. Any counting system which includes aces as a part of the main count. For example, hi-lo is an ace reckoned count, but Hi-Opt I is not.
BJC
Per BJ21.com glossary:
Ace neutral count. Any counting system which does not assign a value to aces.
Ace reckoned count. Any counting system which includes aces as a part of the main count. For example, hi-lo is an ace reckoned count, but Hi-Opt I is not.
BJC