video poker

supercoolmancool

Well-Known Member
#1
How much variance is there really in video poker? Is it true that you have a hole bunch of consecutive losing sessions until you finnally hit the jackpot and win it all back? Do you think it is feasable for a solo player to make a living playing video poker?
 

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#2
Lots of people make a decent living in Vegas. The key is playing only on double or triple cashback days.Check out Jean Scotts Frugal Gambling for more info.
 

supercoolmancool

Well-Known Member
#3
Hmmm. I have only heard great things about this book. I think I will actually buy it. I never thought I would, but here I am now doing just that. Crazy.

Frugal Gambling: Just doesn't scream me.
 

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#5
supercoolmancool said:
Hmmm. I have only heard great things about this book. I think I will actually buy it. I never thought I would, but here I am now doing just that. Crazy.

Frugal Gambling: Just doesn't scream me.
You'll be amazed how far a few of her tips can stretch your gambling budget.
Some ofthem are so simple,you'll smack yourslf for not figuring them out yourself.
JS lost about $40,000 playing video poker last year,but recieved almost $80,000 in bounceback cash alone.Not to mention the several cars she has won plus winning $500,000 one weekend at Caesars.
 

kender

Active Member
#6
Is more frugal gambling by jean scott a new edition of the first book or a sequel to frugal gambling. I ask because I'm trying to decide if I should get just "more frugal gamblling" or both the books or just the first one. Any advice would be appreciated.
 

KenSmith

Administrator
Staff member
#7
"More Frugal Gambling" is a sequel to the original "The Frugal Gambler".
However, I think it was an effective replacement for the original.
You only need "More Frugal Gambling".

OK... While I'm here, I'll post a link here to a new sales concept I'm trying.
It's a package of books, software, and strategy cards for video poker, at a lower price than the individual items would cost.

Here's a link: http://www.videopokervictory.com

It's a pretty hard-sell style site, but I stand by the information available.
I'll be interested to hear feedback.
 

Brutus

Well-Known Member
#8
It's a pretty hard-sell style site, but I stand by the information available.
I'll be interested to hear feedback.
Its not hard sell at all, especially with a 30 day money back guarantee.

Ken, what percentage of return should be expected using the package?
 

EasyRhino

Well-Known Member
#9
Wow, until I scrolled down about 30% of the first screen, the site made you look like some sort of scam artist, Ken. And I know you're a straight-shooter, so that was kind of a surprise. I think it's part Druge-esque and part the Ron Popeil-style prose of the copy.

After reading through to the end, I calmed down and figured what you were getting at. The product seems interesting. I'm to cheap to spend over $100 at once, but I can definitely see how people will find it complelling.

To be honest, I don't know if me being turned off by the page means it's a bad site. After all, people seem to buy "systems" all the time, so their pages must be effective. I wish I had demographic data on who would be likely to see the page.

It would be really slick if you could somehow discriminate between low-key web surfers (such as myself) and people who like the hard sell, and then route them to the appropriate page. Maybe only place ads at the end of personality tests?
 

Mikeaber

Well-Known Member
#10
I'm not giving up BJ (though sometimes I feel like I'm ready to quit!), but I've had good results playing VP at first as a time killer when I needed a break from the tables, and then later as a viable option to BJ.

I generally look for 9/7 or better Double Bonus Video Poker machines. JOB is less volital but DB has been more lucrative for me. As to whether I could live off the winnings? Not at the level "I" play at! I'm still feeling it out playing very low coin values (mostly nickel) and have been watching the results. This all came about because of the lousey Blackjack available in Oklahoma (closest casinos to me). It's not too difficult to find 9/6 or 9/7 DB in most casinos.

One word though...if you decide to take this route, get a good simulator that will track your accuracy. It is no less demanding to learn strategies for VP than it is for Advantage Play in Blackjack. Each paytable change on a game will dictate different strategies. The new Dancer software is pretty good and I've heard nothing but good things about Frugal VP (Scott's software) and about Win Poker though it is at the end of it's life-cycle right now I think.

It sure looks to me like what Ken is offering is a good package.
 

KenSmith

Administrator
Staff member
#11
Right now, this is really just an experiment. I'm very curious to see what kind of conversion rates this informercial-style selling can accomplish. It certainly wasn't easy for me to switch gears and produce that kind of over-the-top pitch.

Brutus asked about percentage return... It depends on what part of the country you are in, and what level you are interested in playing. In Vegas, there are still 100.76% deuces wild plays available, but just at the quarter level. At the dollar level, the most common +EV game is full-pay Double Bonus at 100.17%. Those figures are prior to cashback, so you can typically add another 0.25% to 0.30% for players club cash.

You almost always need to find some extras somewhere. Often, there are promotions and double or triple point days that make 9/6 Jacks a good play, even though the game returns only 99.54%.

Most of the value comes from this list... Comps, cashback, bounceback cash, drawings, invitational tournaments.

You really have to take a fundamentally different view than the typical blackjack advantage play.

As an example, my wife and I love to stay at the Venetian in Vegas, but the best game they offer is 9/6 Jacks, and that only at the $5 level. However, add in their Gold level of cashback of 0.3%, and you're at 99.84%. Then, for all my trips last year I was getting $500 in free play in promo offers. Even if you play to their ridiculously high requirement for the best promos and invites, that adds another 0.33% on a three day trip, or a better 0.50% for a two-day trip. I also scheduled those trips around an invitational slot or video poker tournament, which generally added somewhere between $100 and $400 of EV.

To this, add whatever value you'd like for being RFL (room, food, limited beverage) at one of the two or three nicest properties in Vegas. Some people may value that at near zero, and some may value it close to the retail value.

The downside at the $5 level is risk, and there's plenty of it required to accomplish the relatively low profit EV. In fact, this Venetian example is almost a worst case situation, with ridiculously high play requirements and a mediocre choice of games. But even here, there's positive expectation, and this play can make sense for some players.

If you choose properties that aren't so high-end, you can find better games, lower play requirements, and often better promotions.

The most notable difference between VP play and blackjack play is that you lose a lot more sessions than you win at VP. Much of the return is tied up in low-frequency royals, so knowing your bankroll requirements is a must, and you need to be able to deal with a lot of frustration along the way.
 

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#12
While they say most of your profits come come from the elusive Royal Flushs,I've been playing VP for awhile,have yet to hit a non-wild R,and am down only a few hundred dollars,more than offset by the comps I've earned.
Best hit was a Five of a kind Kings on a 50 cent machine for $2,000.
Just as an example of the kind of comps you get from machine play-My last trip to Ac- two nights comped,playing 25 cent VP, I earned 903 base points,3409 bonus points( it was a double bonus day),which translates to $43 in food comps.I lost almost 250 dollars( a bad day) but recieved $84 in bounceback cash for my next visit.
Not a good day,but when you add the comps and cash, it isn't bad,especially when you figure that play gets my next trip comped as well.
The thing is,after about three hours of play,I was just one Four of a Kind or straight flush away from turning a profit.
 

Brutus

Well-Known Member
#13
To me, it looks like a diversion from blackjack, and a low risk way to get heat off.
Last time I played, I had a Queen and Ace of spades, a king of diamonds, and two other insignificant cards.
I held the queen and ace, and got dealt 3 more aces, paying 4 bills.
 
#14
Yes VP is a fun diversion, but watch out, pushing those buttons can be habit-forming! I actually found myself looking forward to taking a break from BJ and dropping a C in a VP machine, that's risky thinking.

The other problem with playing $1-level VP is that if when you get a RF or a large bonus over $1200, dirty old Uncle Sam is going to put his hand down your Underoos and cop a feel on your EV. This involves giving SSN's to the casino and all of that garbage. Just something to consider.
 

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#15
I would think its a good way to deflect heat if you are using a player card.
PB looks you up and sees you have significant slot play,he's going to think you aren't an AP,I'd guess.
When I get my slot club statements,it doesn't differentiate between video slots and video poker. I'm not sure if the PB gets that breakdown.

BTW- On most games,The Royal Flush only amounts to around 2% of the EV,so its not like you will be losing badly and then the RF puts you in the Black.
 
#16
Is there any software or site that allows you to practice basic strategy on only the hard plays. I was practicing on wizzardofodds.com but there are too many easy plays. It takes forever to get a challenging one. It would be better if they were only challenging ones.
 

Mikeaber

Well-Known Member
#17
SCM...I don't know of any sites with webgames that would do what you want, but there is a new piece of software published by Bob Dancer that does exactly what you want. It's pricey at $50 but I think it's worth the money considering all the games covered (single hand and multi hand and spin-poker). It allows you to change the pay tables and then generates new strategy for those altered pay tables. Plus, it allows you to pick the "difficulty" with options of "Mixed" (simulates casino machines), Beginner, Intermediate and Advanced. It even has a "TEST" mode where you have to get 30 hands in a row starting at the Beginner level and progressing up through Advanced. It evaluates your play and calculates all the stats based on your accuracy.

You can download a fully function 3-day trial version at www.videopokerforwinners.com. If you like it and buy it, you can request one additional activation code to load it up on a second computer (a notebook supposedly...at least that's what I did). The second liscense is free after validation of your original purchase.
 
#18
I have been memorizing perfect optimal basic strategy for deuces wild with 100.76. Then I look and notice that easy basic strategy is 10X easier with a 100.71 payout. Does anyone use or advise perfect play?
 

ScottH

Well-Known Member
#19
supercoolmancool said:
I have been memorizing perfect optimal basic strategy for deuces wild with 100.76. Then I look and notice that easy basic strategy is 10X easier with a 100.71 payout. Does anyone use or advise perfect play?
If you can play that much faster with an easier BS that only pays .05 less, you will be much better off using the easy BS. You can play faster and increase your EV more than playing slower and getting that extra .05. But of course if you can play them equally fast, learn the hard version.

I would probably learn the easy version and blast out hands as fast as possible.

Can you give me a link, I am interested in VP as well.
 
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