Simple hole carding idea

[Ferretnparrot]

I dont play hole cards, but i just thought of the stupidest idea that would be a benefit, i wouldnt be surprised if all the hole carders in the world thought of this but i thought of it just now so ima spill it.

Often the handicap accessable tables have a lower table and lower chairs than the regular tables, if one of those is right next to a full size table, stealing a chair from it and sitting at the higher table would put your head a lot closer to the felt as the hadicap table stools are often shorter than the regular table stools.

Thats my idea, i hope somebody finds it usefull

Ferret

[Sonny]

That sounds familiar :

"Find a table that you want to attack. Have you buddy grab the chair from spot one and take it somewhere (It dosen't matter where. People take chairs all the time from tables.) You then put your money in the spot and say "I need to go get a chair" You run over to Baccarat and grab a low chair and put it in your spot. It works."

-onebademf


http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/show...0&postcount=36

-Sonny-

[ihate17]

I have read, never did it myself, about holecarders coming into a casino in a wheelchair and going to a regular table where his chin is perhaps slightly lower than the table itself.

If it works, if they get away with it, I really do not know.

ihate17

[moo321]

Been thought of, probably tried. Successful? Who knows. You should try it.

[Ferretnparrot]

Originally Posted by ihate17

I have read, never did it myself, about holecarders coming into a casino in a wheelchair and going to a regular table where his chin is perhaps slightly lower than the table itself.

If it works, if they get away with it, I really do not know.

ihate17

Ever notice how whenevr theres a space reserved for wheelchair patrons only it always seems to be at first base?

Thats seems kinda stupid

[zengrifter]

From the following, note the lawyers' citation of Zengrifter Interview and the opinion that my tactic was illegal. zg

-------------------------------------------

ADVANTAGE PLAY AND
COMMERCIAL CASINOS

Anthony Cabot*
Robert Hannum**
EXCERPT - Legality

As scienter or fraudulent intent is an element of cheating,[358]should the law criminalize activity where the player simply acts upon information exposed where he or she did not enter the casino with intent to fraudulently obtain and act on this information? The latter is the case where a typical player sitting at the table learns of the value of the dealer's hole card because the dealer makes an error in exposing the card.

Hole-carding professionals and teams are much different than where a player, without fraudulent intent, learns the dealer's hole card because of “a dealer's unintended revelation of his cards.”[359] Here, cheaters play the game with the intent of learning the dealer's hole card by undertaking some act to either learn the hole card where the dealer is properly protecting it or by using the hold card techniques that accentuate poor dealing. Note, for example, this quote from an interview with a hole carder:

Another cute ruse, I used a few times in the `80s, is posing as a wheelchair-ridden muscular-dystrophy victim during the week of the Jerry Lewis telethon. I'd roll up to the table, eyes level with the felt. Using spasmodic movements and twisted posture I announce in a strained voice that I was the 1964 Jerry Lewis Muscular Dystrophy “poster boy.” Of course the primary reason for the act was to have my eyes level with the felt to be able to see the dealer's hole card flashing with each round.[360]

Therefore, attempting to acquire knowledge not typically or readily available to other players that provides an advantage in determining or predicting what was intended to be a random event should be illegal and unenforceable if the player uses any artificial or deliberate means to gain the advantage such as mirrors or spotters.

An argument can be made that a typical player that learns of the dealer's hole card because of a dealer's error is no less of a thief than a person who cashes a $100 check and knowingly keeps the extra $900 when the bank clerk mistakes it for $1000. In theory, the player that uses such information forms a fraudulent intent when he or she uses the information to gain the advantage created by the mistake. Moreover, using a person's mistake to that person or his or her employer's disadvantage is unethical.

[360] Barfarkel, The Zengrifter Interview, at http://www.cardcounter.com/interview_Zen_Grifter.htm (last visited May 4, 2005).

[QFIT]

Originally Posted by zengrifter

An argument can be made that a typical player that learns of the dealer's hole card because of a dealer's error is no less of a thief than a person who cashes a $100 check and knowingly keeps the extra $900 when the bank clerk mistakes it for $1000. In theory, the player that uses such information forms a fraudulent intent when he or she uses the information to gain the advantage created by the mistake. Moreover, using a person's mistake to that person or his or her employer's disadvantage is unethical.

I have a problem with this analogy. If a mistake is made in your favor in a financial transaction, yes you should rectify the error. And if you hand a bartender a 10 and ask for change of a 20, this is clear fraud. But BJ is a game. The heart of most games is taking advantage of opponents' mistakes. Further, in ancient games like Chess, Gin, Bridge/Whist and Poker, purposely creating situations where your opponent is likely to make errors is basic strategy. (Also true in political debates.) This is clearly not "fraud."

[Brock Windsor]

What is the consensus on the legality of using a wheelchair to hole card? I've got a chair but haven't tried it yet. My concern is the casino would say the wheelchair is an advantage device like a mirror or camera and thus illegal. What say the masses?
-BW

[jack,jackson]

Originally Posted by QFIT

I have a problem with this analogy. If a mistake is made in your favor in a financial transaction, yes you should rectify the error. And if you hand a bartender a 10 and ask for change of a 20, this is clear fraud. But BJ is a game. The heart of most games is taking advantage of opponents' mistakes. Further, in ancient games like Chess, Gin, Bridge/Whist and Poker, purposely creating situations where your opponent is likely to make errors is basic strategy. (Also true in political debates.) This is clearly not "fraud."

In chess I purposely start-up conversations, when I make certain plays. Or even sometimes I go as far to "accidentaly" knock over a piece, to cause a distraction, while moving one of my pieces.

PS: You can look for JP w/the chinese hat, @ yahoo games, for a friendly game of chess.

[ihate17]

Originally Posted by Brock Windsor

What is the consensus on the legality of using a wheelchair to hole card? I've got a chair but haven't tried it yet. My concern is the casino would say the wheelchair is an advantage device like a mirror or camera and thus illegal. What say the masses?
-BW

But I do agree with you if the only purpose of the wheelchair is to gain knowledge of the hole card. Seems similar to a shinner. Only reason to have a mirror at the table or a wheelchair at the table, see the hole card. Sounds like cheating.

Now if you happen to be in need of that chair it becomes a case of lose-lose for the casino to try and prosecute a poor handicapped person who just happened to run into a sloppy dealer, but if you do not need it, I think they would jump all over you.

ihate17