3 card 16

X

Xevious

Member
#1
#1
I have seen in other forums that you should now stand with a 3 card total of 16 vs the dealer up card of 10. Can anyone shed some light on this subject?


Thanks
 
B

Blue Efficacy

Well-Known Member
#2
#2
BS is based on the first hand from a full deck.
3 card 16 means more little cards are spent than a 2 card 16 would.

Therefore, standing is a better option on such a close play
 
FLASH1296

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
#3
#3
The Basic Strategy play of standing on a 16 composed of 3 or more cards is what is called a Composition Dependent B.S. Play.

Since the decision on whether or not to Hit the 16 vs. the dealer's Face Card is a close one, on average, if your 16 is composed of 3 or more cards, by itself the small cards will tend outweigh the (single) large card, tilting you ever-so-slightly in the direction of standing.

There are several very close Basic Strategy plays

These are the closest:

Ace,4 vs. 4

Ace,2 vs. 5

12 vs 4

NOTE: A Twelve, composed of a [Ten, Deuce] facing a dealer 4 has a different Basic Strategy play if playing an 8 deck shoe as opposed to a 6 deck shoe.
 
C

callipygian

Well-Known Member
#4
#4
FLASH1296 said:
Since the decision on whether or not to Hit the 16 vs. the dealer's Face Card is a close one, on average, if your 16 is composed of 3 or more cards, by itself the small cards will tend outweigh the (single) large card, tilting you ever-so-slightly in the direction of standing.
Click to expand...
What FLASH1296 forgot to explain is that a 3-card 16 is more likely include more small cards than large cards (T42, T33, 952, 943, 862, 853, 844, 772, 763, 754, 664, 655) than more large cards than small cards (T5A) or equal (96A, 87A). So when you look at 3-card 16's, you're assuming the count is slightly negative.

For the mathematicians, it's important to note that, in contrast to most combinatorial analysis done for blackjack, the order of cards does matter here. A ten, a five, and an ace can appear in the following orders: T5A, 5TA, A5T, 5AT; but not in the following orders: AT5, TA5. Unless you're dumb enough to hit your blackjack, of course. :grin:
 
S

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#5
#5
In his excellent Blackjack bluebook 2, author Fred Renzey discusses what he calls "The Rule of 45"
If your 16 contains either a 4 or a 5, you stand against a dealers face. It doesn't matter how many decks are being used, although it's obviously stronger in single deck than in an eight deck shoe.

On an aside- Mr Renzey used to post here much more frequently. I wonder if he got tired of people passing off his work without attributing it to him.
 
C

callipygian

Well-Known Member
#6
#6
shadroch said:
If your 16 contains either a 4 or a 5, you stand against a dealers face.
Click to expand...
Just stand all 16's vs. dealer 10, and Wong out at negative counts so you're always making the right move. ;)

shadroch said:
On an aside- Mr Renzey used to post here much more frequently. I wonder if he got tired of people passing off his work without attributing it to him.
Click to expand...
I've seen someone with the username "Renzey" post recently. Is this him?

http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=13214
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=13200
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=13168
 
ihate17

ihate17

Well-Known Member
#8
#8
splitting hairs

We are speaking of your hand here but if there are other players at the table, and if it there is already a running count all of this should be taken into consideration.
Add to that, with 16vs10, hit or stand you are a huge underdog and no matter what you do the difference will be borderline.

ihate17
 
EasyRhino

EasyRhino

Well-Known Member
#9
#9
a) If you're counting, make your decision based on the count
b) Surrender
c) I like the "rule of 65" (?) that I saw at bj21: Hit a two-card 16, and for multi-card, stand, unless the number of 6s is more than the number of 5s.
 
R

Renzey

Well-Known Member
#10
#10
shadroch said:
Mr Renzey used to post here much more frequently. I wonder if he got tired of people passing off his work without attributing it to him.
Click to expand...
I apologize -- my daughter died unexpectedly a few months ago and I haven't been the same since. I'm not around that much lately.
 
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