A Tip on Tipping

[apex]

If you just had a big winning session, there will be social pressure to tip the dealer well. Lately, I have been strategicly ratholing my chips to lessen the pressure. I make sure when it is time to color-up, the left-over chips are the ammount I want to tip.

Example: You are in for $400 and just had a great session. Your dealer is leaving soon. You have $30 in red, and $2450 in green. If you push in your chips this way you will get back 4 purp 4 black 3 green and 1 red. Many dealers expect to get your green and red in this case. Sometimes other players even remind you to leave a nice tip. Instead of cashing in that way, try this:

If you want to tip:

$30 - rathole $50 of green.
$25 - rathole a $5 red and $50 of green
$5 - rathole $75 of green
$0 - rathole $5 of red and $75 of green

In all of these cases, you get back large denom chips and the amount you want to tip in smaller change. Your small tips will look more reasonable this way.

 

[Shoofly]

If you just had a big winning session, there will be social pressure to tip the dealer well. Lately, I have been strategicly ratholing my chips to lessen the pressure. I make sure when it is time to color-up, the left-over chips are the ammount I want to tip.

Example: You are in for $400 and just had a great session. Your dealer is leaving soon. You have $30 in red, and $2450 in green. If you push in your chips this way you will get back 4 purp 4 black 3 green and 1 red. Many dealers expect to get your green and red in this case. Sometimes other players even remind you to leave a nice tip. Instead of cashing in that way, try this:

If you want to tip:

$30 - rathole $50 of green.
$25 - rathole a $5 red and $50 of green
$5 - rathole $75 of green
$0 - rathole $5 of red and $75 of green

In all of these cases, you get back large denom chips and the amount you want to tip in smaller change. Your small tips will look more reasonable this way.

Decide for yourself if you want to tip, and if you do, in what amount. It's nobody else's business, and you don't owe anybody any explanations.

 

[BJgenius007]

Decide for yourself if you want to tip, and if you do, in what amount. It's nobody else's business, and you don't owe anybody any explanations.

I agree. If you are a counter, you are a robber to the casino. What do you care about the less issue like tipping how much and how people think of you?

 

[CalgaryBlackJack]

I don't know if you guys have this type of table but its called a "lucky lucky table". Its a side bet on the black jack table (Your first 2 cards plus the dealers face up card make up the cards for the side bet)and I was at a table where a guy hit a suited 777.

Which pays 100:1 and he had the max bet out on there which is $25. So he basically made $2500. Which in my mind is pretty damn good. He tipped the dealer... get this... $100!

Then walked off without buying the other players a drink or anything. I know tipping is a courtesy but if your going to tip the dealer that much money a beer is a drop in the bucket.

 

[shadroch]

I don't know if you guys have this type of table but its called a "lucky lucky table". Its a side bet on the black jack table (Your first 2 cards plus the dealers face up card make up the cards for the side bet)and I was at a table where a guy hit a suited 777.

Which pays 100:1 and he had the max bet out on there which is $25. So he basically made $2500. Which in my mind is pretty damn good. He tipped the dealer... get this... $100!

Then walked off without buying the other players a drink or anything. I know tipping is a courtesy but if your going to tip the dealer that much money a beer is a drop in the bucket.

A few things come to mind.
1) players don't get comped drinks in your casino? Thats a huge loss of value, imho.
2) what did the players do to deserve anything? The dealer delivered the cards that gave the guy this mini-jackpot.

 

[apex]

True you don't need to tip and shouldn't feel pressure to. Over-tipping is a bad habit left over from my days as a gambler. I am working on correcting it. This strategy is helping a little.

But there is value in being seen as a reasonable tipper, and I think coloring up this way is a slight +EV play even if you don't care what people think of you.

 

[shadroch]

True you don't need to tip and shouldn't feel pressure to. Over-tipping is a bad habit left over from my days as a gambler. I am working on correcting it. This strategy is helping a little.

But there is value in being seen as a reasonable tipper, and I think coloring up this way is a slight +EV play even if you don't care what people think of you.

You really don't need to reinvent the wheel.

 

[moo321]

I agree. If you are a counter, you are a robber to the casino. What do you care about the less issue like tipping how much and how people think of you?

You shouldn't care what people think of you. You should, however, tip someone who works for minimum wage or less. Otherwise you're a selfish jerk making $20+ an hour at the expense of a poor person.

Note, I don't think you need to tip so much that the dealer is happy. You don't owe your dealer a green chip if you played an hour and won a lot. You do owe your dealer a red if you played for a few hours, especially if you won.

It's no different than going to a restaurant. I'm not going to sit here and tell you you have to tip 20% on a $500 bill at a nice restaurant, but if you go to waffle house and stiff the waitress, you're exploiting a poor person, and that makes you an asshole in my book.

 

[Mewtwo]

Shoofly/BJGenius: I'm inclined to disagree slightly. While you should not feel obliged to tip heavily, not tipping at all may cause issues if the dealer is knowledgable/pit crew has an idea you're counting. I remember another thread on this board discussing things from the pit's perspective, and mentioning that given the choice between a counter who is generally friendly and leaves at least a fair toke, and one who doesn't tip at all, they'd ban the non-tipper but allow the one who tipped to continue to count. It may not be this clear-cut, but at least some kind of tip throughout play (during the same session) or after play (which the dealer may keep in mind in a future session) may be the difference between a lot of checks play calls happening or not, or the pit crew turning a blind eye to a counter that isn't heavily impacting their bottom line.

It is nobody else's business, but it may affect your own.


Calgary: I've got you beat on that one.

Guy was telling me a story where he was playing the Lucky Ladies sidebet consistently. He has a $5 chip up there, and gets dealt the first Qh. He tells the dealer "You give me that second Qh and we'll split it." Guy gets the second Qh...and true to his word, gives the dealer a $500 tip on his $1,000 win. The other players were shocked; he said "I made a deal, and I'm a man of my word."

I would never leave a tip that large - and if I were going to leave a decent tip for any reason (anything green or up) it would either have to be at a casino where dealers keep their own rather than pooled tips, or find the dealer outside the casino and give them a tip there. The latter would be preferable as it prevents the dealer from getting taxed on that piece of income.

 

[NightStalker]

buy the drinks?

I've corrected over $5000 in mispay last year on ploppies and i've let many passed. They all felt very happy but none have paid me. I am planning to start charging commission, they anyway lose money back to house.. Only couple of times, ladies have offered me a drink. Ploppies are cheap esp male..

 

[pit15]

or find the dealer outside the casino and give them a tip there. The latter would be preferable as it prevents the dealer from getting taxed on that piece of income.

That's a terrible idea.

That's begging for a collusion charge when you finally get backed off.

I hole card so I actively avoid dealers I play when they're outside the pit. Inside the pit I don't have a problem talking to them or being friendly even if I'm not playing them (part of their job is to be friendly to customers, something most dealers suck at though). But being seen with them away from the tables could be trouble, ESPECIALLY if I'm handing them money. That could easily be seen as a bribe or payment for cheating the casino (and if the dealer's doing it knowingly it is cheating)

 

[pit15]

You shouldn't care what people think of you. You should, however, tip someone who works for minimum wage or less. Otherwise you're a selfish jerk making $20+ an hour at the expense of a poor person.

Note, I don't think you need to tip so much that the dealer is happy. You don't owe your dealer a green chip if you played an hour and won a lot. You do owe your dealer a red if you played for a few hours, especially if you won.

It's no different than going to a restaurant. I'm not going to sit here and tell you you have to tip 20% on a $500 bill at a nice restaurant, but if you go to waffle house and stiff the waitress, you're exploiting a poor person, and that makes you an asshole in my book.

I rarely tip because dealers don't keep their own. In the poker room on the occasion i play there I do tip because they do keep their own.

And I think I'm an easier person to deal with at the table then the average ploppy. I'm not drunk, I don't bitch at the dealer when I lose, don't smoke, and aren't loud and obnoxious like a lot of people are.

Since dealers don't keep their own in the stores I play at, most dealers, from what I've seen hate annoying players more then non-tippers

 

[Automatic Monkey]

You shouldn't care what people think of you. You should, however, tip someone who works for minimum wage or less. Otherwise you're a selfish jerk making $20+ an hour at the expense of a poor person.

Note, I don't think you need to tip so much that the dealer is happy. You don't owe your dealer a green chip if you played an hour and won a lot. You do owe your dealer a red if you played for a few hours, especially if you won.

It's no different than going to a restaurant. I'm not going to sit here and tell you you have to tip 20% on a $500 bill at a nice restaurant, but if you go to waffle house and stiff the waitress, you're exploiting a poor person, and that makes you an asshole in my book.

Wait a minute- who's exploiting them? Me, or the employer who chose to pay them $5/hr wages? As I see it the casino makes far more off that dealer than I do- why would I be expected to pay the bulk of the dealer's wages?

Not that I never tip, I often do particularly when it will benefit me in some way, but not just to tip a worker. Those people do not care about me. If I go do robbery to get money to play in their casino, they don't care. (Has anyone ever estimated what percent of casino profits and dealer tips come from stolen funds?) If I were to lose all my money and in my financial desperation went home and committed suicide, they would not care. Many people have done this- every casino is responsible for destroyed and perhaps lost lives and reaped profit from it, and I care about the well-being of the casino and its employees exactly as much as they care about me and also about the people they have harmed.

In contrast, I'm prepared to believe that both the waitress and the restaurant owner want me to be happy and healthy and have a good meal and service at their restaurant, and it would bother them personally and professionally if I had the restaurant equivalent of a 'losing session.' The restaurant employees and customers have complementary interests, while the casino and its customers have opposing and irreconcilable interests.

 

[pit15]

In contrast, I'm prepared to believe that both the waitress and the restaurant owner want me to be happy and healthy and have a good meal and service at their restaurant, and it would bother them personally and professionally if I had the restaurant equivalent of a 'losing session.' The restaurant employees and customers have complementary interests, while the casino and its customers have opposing and irreconcilable interests.

I disagree with this statement.

The casino and a lot of the dumbass ploppies have the same interests. That is for the ploppy to "have a good time" blowing his money. How many people have you seen at the table who won't leave until they've lost it all? If they're winning they'll play all night until they finally unload it all.

 

[CalgaryBlackJack]

A few things come to mind.
1) players don't get comped drinks in your casino? Thats a huge loss of value, imho.
2) what did the players do to deserve anything? The dealer delivered the cards that gave the guy this mini-jackpot.

1)I haven't tried asking for drinks as I play way to small, im sure they do it but no one seems to order drinks even if they are playing big.

2)I had just as much to do with the hand as the dealer (nothing). But if you really want to look into it if I didn't play that hand or skipped a hand or didn't hit a hand he wouldn't have been able to make his suited 7's at that certain point in time.

 

[gamblingghost]

I disagree with this statement.

The casino and a lot of the dumbass ploppies have the same interests. That is for the ploppy to "have a good time" blowing his money. How many people have you seen at the table who won't leave until they've lost it all? If they're winning they'll play all night until they finally unload it all.

No way! They wanted to win just like everybody else. With all due respect, this is a dumb comment. "Blowing money" usually means you get something in return. You get nothing if you lose in a casino, except maybe shown to the door.

 

[gamblingghost]

Wait a minute- who's exploiting them? Me, or the employer who chose to pay them $5/hr wages? As I see it the casino makes far more off that dealer than I do- why would I be expected to pay the bulk of the dealer's wages?

Not that I never tip, I often do particularly when it will benefit me in some way, but not just to tip a worker. Those people do not care about me. If I go do robbery to get money to play in their casino, they don't care. (Has anyone ever estimated what percent of casino profits and dealer tips come from stolen funds?) If I were to lose all my money and in my financial desperation went home and committed suicide, they would not care. Many people have done this- every casino is responsible for destroyed and perhaps lost lives and reaped profit from it, and I care about the well-being of the casino and its employees exactly as much as they care about me and also about the people they have harmed.

In contrast, I'm prepared to believe that both the waitress and the restaurant owner want me to be happy and healthy and have a good meal and service at their restaurant, and it would bother them personally and professionally if I had the restaurant equivalent of a 'losing session.' The restaurant employees and customers have complementary interests, while the casino and its customers have opposing and irreconcilable interests.

I knew someone would come on here and express my feelings on this. Thank you AM. Comparing a casino to a breakfast restaurant, pa leeeze! Hey, didn't dealers used to consider tips as gifts and wanted it to stay that way so they didn't have to pay taxes??? I say tip the dealers for one reason, to help the player beat the casino.

 

[Shoofly]

In discussions of this kind, people usually use the analogy of waitresses. There are many people who provide services that do not receive tips. Most of us don't tip the person who checks our groceries at the super market, or trash collectors. If you want to talk about food service, how many of us tip the person who sells us a burger at McDonalds? I tip waitresses; not because I like it, but because in our society this custom has been so ingrained that it is almost mandatory. I don't put dealers in this category. I don't feel the need to subsidize a casino's obligation to pay its employees; nor the need to subsidize a dealer's career choice. The amount a person earns is an issue between the employer and the employee, and is none of my business.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

The tipping system works well in restaurants because it allow the restaurateur to keep service up through slow and busy times while it provides a moderating effect on the server's wages. When the restaurant is busy the servers are overworked and service declines, and the tips per table decline because some people will be dissatisfied, but the server will still be making more money by serving more tables. When the restaurant isn't busy the servers work less but can be more attentive to their tables, somewhat increasing their tip per table. It levels things out a bit.

In contrast, current casino policy nearly everywhere is to manage tables full, crowding people into an uncomfortable mass of elbows and cigarettes, slow games, bad games, onerous procedures, just so they can lay people off, and they expect me to help pay the people they didn't lay off? Screw that. Open up some pits and tables, let me backcount and Wong around to the degree we used to be able to instead of shutting down games as soon as they are less than full, and then I'll think about helping you keep your dealers happy.

 

[pit15]

No way! They wanted to win just like everybody else. With all due respect, this is a dumb comment. "Blowing money" usually means you get something in return. You get nothing if you lose in a casino, except maybe shown to the door.

Do you even play in casinos?

You've never heard people say to a friend something like "let me just blow the rest of this then I'll go" then proceed to lose all of it until they don't have the min bet anymore, then toss the remainder to the dealer?

And plenty of other people go to the casino to put X $ in a slot machine and completely expect to lose all of it.

I genuinely believe there are people who go to the casino to lose.