After 6 Months Of Practice...I Failed In The Real World.

[A.L.F.]

I can count 5 out of 5 decks in a row flawlessly at 25 seconds each. I've been practicing on CVBJ non-stop for 6 months. I know KO Full in my sleep...but when the chips hit the felt in the real world for the first time, I kept losing the count.

I don't get it: I was pretty good in the "laboratory"...but played two Red sessions about 4-5 shoes each time and something always distracted me to lose the count. Usually, it was having to talk to players or the dealer that did me in.

1. Did anyone else have this same problem when they started?

2. What worked for you?

3. What's the remedy for me based on what you've read: is it just more real-world live play--or is it more CVBJ counting drills (single decks or six decks start to finish) before I go again?

Thanks in advance,

A.L.F. :sad:

 

[InPlay]

I can count 5 out of 5 decks in a row flawlessly at 25 seconds each. I've been practicing on CVBJ non-stop for 6 months. I know KO Full in my sleep...but when the chips hit the felt in the real world for the first time, I kept losing the count.

I don't get it: I was pretty good in the "laboratory"...but played two Red sessions about 4-5 shoes each time and something always distracted me to lose the count. Usually, it was having to talk to players or the dealer that did me in.

1. Did anyone else have this same problem when they started?

2. What worked for you?

3. What's the remedy for me based on what you've read: is it just more real-world live play--or is it more CVBJ counting drills (single decks or six decks start to finish) before I go again?

Thanks in advance,

A.L.F. :sad:

I can count 5 out of 5 decks in a row flawlessly at about 35 seconds each. No need for speed for me. Is a dealer going to deal you a deck in 25 seconds ? It's way overated ! I don't see the point but I am sure a lot of people will tell you the opposite. Try bringing a Lucky Charm with you to the casino next time. Just keep plugging along you have just started.

 

[KOLAN]

1.no body dont pay you becos you count wery quikly
2.it is only 47%-48% to win if true count is +5+6

 

[takinfromindians97]

The only way to get good in the casinos im sorry to say my friend, is to actually put in hours in the casino. Nothing your gonna do at home no amount of practice and no matter how fast you can count a deck doesnt do anything for actual casino play. Yea it makes it so counting is natural to you but you have to put that together with alot of other things that just take time and experience. Its the only way to get good in live casino play, everyone has trouble when they start off we just put in our hours. Another thing too, I agree with Inplay on this one STOP WITH THE COUNTING WITH A TIMER, it doesnt really have any value to count down 5 decks in 25 seconds each, spend your time elsewhere, like playing in the casino.No matter what dont think that what you do at home will simulate what happens in the casino. You have drink girls coming up you have to tip,dealers talking to you, pit bosses wanting your card, hot girls walking by, drunk idiots, way to many things for you to ever possibly properly prepare for. SO like we all did just get your stripes on the battlefield, see ya in the trenches

 

[KOLAN]

I can count 5 out of 5 decks in a row flawlessly at 25 seconds each. I've been practicing on CVBJ non-stop for 6 months. I know KO Full in my sleep...but when the chips hit the felt in the real world for the first time, I kept losing the count.

I don't get it: I was pretty good in the "laboratory"...but played two Red sessions about 4-5 shoes each time and something always distracted me to lose the count. Usually, it was having to talk to players or the dealer that did me in.

1. Did anyone else have this same problem when they started?

2. What worked for you?

3. What's the remedy for me based on what you've read: is it just more real-world live play--or is it more CVBJ counting drills (single decks or six decks start to finish) before I go again?

Thanks in advance,

A.L.F. :sad:

spend 2-5 days only count not bet
after no girls no dealer can stop you.

 

[Canceler]

1. Did anyone else have this same problem when they started?

You betcha!

2. What worked for you?

Having someone deal hands to me while I practiced playing and counting helped a lot.

3. just more real-world live play

That one.

 

[bjtocki]

Yes, everybody will experience the same. The speed is really no use in the real environment because the players (ploppies) will almost always slow the game down. I counted down a deck in 17 seconds before hitting the casino, but I realized that doing so within 45 seconds is all you need for speed.

The drill you've done in the lab will payoff very soon. I practiced like 4 months before hitting it. For me, it took me 7 trips to get used to all the distractions. I was able to estimate the decks quite accurately after a lot of practice for Hi-Lo at home (I bought the used casino cards from Amazon, they are quite different from the ones you buy at the store), but on the first trip, I couldn't believe that I had a hard time to even figure out if the table game was 6 or 8 decks after sitting on the table! I think the nervousness have blurred my vision, it's incredible.

Now I can tell if it's single to 8 decks miles away. :cool2:

 

[blackchipjim]

advice

One word to you alf is to learn to relax and take the whole thing in. The best way to remember the count is to word associate the number such as a dozen=12 sweet 16, sex =6 that way you can carry a conversation and remember the word. It does take practice and hours to refine your shitck so you look natural and not preoccupied good luck to you. blackchipjim

 

[Tarzan]

Differences

Some 25 years ago, I started practicing and learning my count, reading, etc. I never walked into an actual casino until I felt I was ready to rock'n'roll. I had it down to a science by the time I played my first hand in the casino, complete with charts, statistical data, notes, you name it and I prepared for it! My count was dead accurate, dead on... never off by even one card.

All except for one thing that I HADN'T prepared for! The noises, distractions, etc. I found that the clanging and bells of the slot machines in the background had a definitve disorienting effect on me, the lights were a distraction, along the people and scrutiny. I found that where I had been able to keep an exact count and never go off by even one card, suddenly I was losing the exact count in the actual casino conditions! This was alarming to me and I then started to create diversions and noise while practicing flipping cards at home, take phone calls, whatever... it still took a long time to be able to block out things to focus on what I was doing, maybe about a year or so of infrequent trips.

After a time the lights, the background noise, the distractions are all easily blocked out and you acclimate to be functional in this environment. Anymore nothing has any effect on me and the waitress could whip out her breasts and start singing "The Star Spangled Banner" at the top of her lungs and I won't lose focus or lose the count. The Pit Boss could do cartwheels across the pit while John Phillip Sousa style marching band tunes blast in the background and I will not lose focus or lose the count. Purple flying monkeys could come flying out from the ceiling and...okay... you get the idea.

 

[StandardDeviant]

I can count 5 out of 5 decks in a row flawlessly at 25 seconds each. I've been practicing on CVBJ non-stop for 6 months.

I am at about the same spot as you and having some of the same issues. I am also using CVBJ for practice. I find that I have to get in the casino environment to really practice.

It's sorta like learning a new language. You can listen to all the tape and read the books on grammar, but you have to get immersion to bring it all together.

I get to the casino as often as I can, and play at the table minimums for practice. Sometimes I play a shoe using just BS. Other times I'll count and do some modest bet ramp up and down, but not the full spreads I will do when I'm more confident of the count. Also I'm playing 2-3 hour sessions, and I don't want to sit there that long with large bet spreads. I'm not trying to make money now, I'm trying to learn and practice. The money will come later.

One thing I've thought about but haven't tried yet is using CVBJ with some distractions, like playing iTunes at the same time. Another thing I want to work at is having phone conversations while counting.

I am also finding, and I don't quite know how to explain this, but if I don't say the count to myself but just visualize the count, it is somewhat easier to deal with distractions. I use the word "visualize" but actually it's not visualization. I just find that after playing a while I can look at the cards and know the count without saying it to myself. It's a little bit like when we speak; we don't think about the words, they just come out. When I am able to do that in counting it quite a rush.

And one closing thought. Stop saying to yourself that you've failed. You only fail if you quit. If you keep at it, you'll get there, and so will I. It just takes time and practice, practice, practice.

 

[StandardDeviant]

... and the waitress could whip out her breasts and start singing "The Star Spangled Banner" ...

At the casino I frequent, some of the waitresses dresses are so revealing they're almost already there! And if it's not them, it's the 20-somethings dressed to kill on a Friday night.

 

[Finn Dog]

Same thing happened to me on my first few times. So I'm now practicing with CVBJ with one radio on AM talk, another on FM classic tunes, and my TV on the Weather Channel.

After I master this, I'll ask my wife come in and engage me in cryptic Ploppie-esque one-liner conversations--and then keep practicing in live conditions at low Red tables till I'm ready to step up.

 

[bjtocki]

One word to you alf is to learn to relax and take the whole thing in. The best way to remember the count is to word associate the number such as a dozen=12 sweet 16, sex =6 that way you can carry a conversation and remember the word. It does take practice and hours to refine your shitck so you look natural and not preoccupied good luck to you. blackchipjim

Great idea. In my case, I just visualize the numbers projecting to the person's forehead I am talking to, so If I see waitress's big breasts and if the count is more than 9, then I project the tens on the left breast and the ones on the right and it works :grin:

 

[EasyRhino]

Careful, too much "practice" in a casino, if you're not even close to ready, can get quite expensive.

a) Mechanically, just counting down a deck doesn't match the "rhythm" of the game, so try to tweak the practice to more closely match real play at your local store, (one card to each player, one up card to dealer, then second card to each player... whatever).

b) Or the problem may be "compartmentalization", distraction-specific practice can help, as can trying to "store" the count in a different portion of the brain than the one you're using to talk or ogle waitresses or whatever.

c) You can practice pretty well by backcounting. See if you can keep the count without having to make play decisions. If that works, pick a player to be your proxy, and mentally make his play decisions while counting. Once that's down, keep the count and make play decisions for EVERY player.

d) don't underestimate sheer rote memorization. I thought I knew basic strategy well, but only after I played through several thousand hands grinding on online casinos (back in the good old days of a couple years ago), did I truly have it locked.

 

[A.L.F.]

Thanks to everyone for all the truly inspirational and excellent advice thus far.

What a community!

 

[A.L.F.]

Back To The Tables

Well, here's the plan I've formulated (thanks to you all): looks like after on-going distraction-laden practice drills, it'll be back the lowest Red tables I can find for the next year or so. Distance only makes this possible about 3 non-travel playing days per month, so figure about 15 possible live-practice hours per month in all (if broken into five one-hour sessions per day)...more possible if you feel I should risk tombstoning.

But I'm guessing there's really no need to stay with one-hour sessions right now (while I'm practicing on Red with either a flat bet or tiny spread)? This is on a 6D game with S17, DS, RSA, and 75% pen...ultimately, I'd like to employ a 1:12 spread.

Therefore, these questions have arisen:

1. Should I just flat bet till I feel I'm 100% ready in a year or so--or should I use some tiny spread like 1:3 (2u = halfway, 3u = max bets for a little bit more realistic feel to the game...once I've proven I can actually keep the count or a full shoe of course)?

2. What's the max number of hours I can push these "training playing sessions" to without wearing out my welcome if flat betting?

3. Same question but on using the tiny spread of say 1:3?

Thanks once again to everyone for all the fantastic ideas and advice!

A.L.F.

 

[StandardDeviant]

...Should I just flat bet till I feel I'm 100% ready in a year or so--or should I use some tiny spread like 1:3 (2u = halfway, 3u = max bets for a little bit more realistic feel to the game...once I've proven I can actually keep the count or a full shoe of course)?...

See this thread, I just asked the same question...

 

[Mimosine]

c) You can practice pretty well by backcounting. See if you can keep the count without having to make play decisions. If that works, pick a player to be your proxy, and mentally make his play decisions while counting. Once that's down, keep the count and make play decisions for EVERY player.

i personally like this suggestion the best.

i had the same problems the OP had too. just like MOST of us probably did. with time it gets better. i have tried the number visualization thing, red numbers for negative and green for positive, but it never lasts and just isn't how i trained my brain when i learned. there are ways to slow down the game when you are getting overloaded. there are times when i have a really tough time keeping the count straight with multi card hands. usually when the count and the hand total are close, in these instances i stop counting and keep that one number in my head and deal with adjusting it after i am done with my hand. or if the count is super pos or super negative and i have a tricky situation to deal with, i'll wait until the end of the round to catch up. if you need to order a drink, t a k e y o u r t i m e.... don't rush and lose the count or feel anxious about making your hand decision. if someone is talking to you, you can be polite, or if it is too distracting ignore them, slump a little, they'll get the hint.

 

[mathman]

While you're practicing at home teach basic strategy to someone else while you are counting. Do not count out loud. If you can explain basic strategy, deal the cards and keep track of things while you are counting then you're doing better. If you lose the count, recount your discards and keep going. Once you can do this right without making a mistake, you will be able to talk to the dealer, order drinks, and converse with the player next to you. Do not let the game move any faster than you want it to, pretend to be thinking about the decision you want to make. It is not odd for a normal player to look at the other players cards while he is struggling to make his decision. Learn to count in pairs, one high and one low cancel each other out. This allows you to scan a table quickly and only count what you have to and gives your mind more time to relax. Good luck!

 

[A.L.F.]

c) You can practice pretty well by backcounting. See if you can keep the count without having to make play decisions. If that works, pick a player to be your proxy, and mentally make his play decisions while counting. Once that's down, keep the count and make play decisions for EVERY player.

Having never backcounted, how long can I stand behind this table till they start to wonder about me?

Thanks again,

A.L.F.