An AP move I'm pretty proud of...

[RJT]

Well this is a pitch game (SD or DD, you hold the cards in your hand.)

Really? Well what d'ya know! Still you would think one might try and sit out of as many of these hands as possible? But then i'm just an ignorant hick from the sticks - what would i know.....
While you're in the mood to give lessons, what's that 3 to 2 pay out on a blackjack mean? For that matter, what's a blackjack? :laugh:

RJT.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Really? Well what d'ya know! Still you would think one might try and sit out of as many of these hands as possible? But then i'm just an ignorant hick from the sticks - what would i know.....
While you're in the mood to give lessons, what's that 3 to 2 pay out on a blackjack mean? For that matter, what's a blackjack? :laugh:

RJT.

Can't sit out, as there is rarely mid-deck entry allowed and when there is, you'll be tapped out of the game in about 15 minutes if you try any of the techniques we take for granted in the shoe game. Taking your legitimate breaks on bad counts is the best you can get away with. You really do need finesse in this environment, as the games are profitable enough to play gently.

Hey guys let's take up a collection to send RJT to Nevada to try SD! Where should we send him, maybe the Cal-Neva? :laugh: The El Cortez?:laugh: :laugh: The Truckstop?:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

[mdlbj]

I think that playing for meanningfull stakes comes into consideration when choosing a SD/DD game or any BJ game anywhere.

Playing a 10-50 dollar table, you may not have the most favorible rules. Part of being a skilled AP is to use all of these things to your advantage. There are places in Vegas that offer good SD/DD games which allow you to wong, enter mid deck etc but at the same time, your bankroll will dictate if you will survive at these tables. They are not cheap and, you will have to bring your A game.

 

[RJT]

Can't sit out, as there is rarely mid-deck entry allowed and when there is, you'll be tapped out of the game in about 15 minutes if you try any of the techniques we take for granted in the shoe game. Taking your legitimate breaks on bad counts is the best you can get away with. You really do need finesse in this environment, as the games are profitable enough to play gently.

What you mean you can't just check your phone for a hand or 2? You've got to sit through to the end? Just as well you're around to keep me in the know about what would get me tapped out of games otherwise i'd never be any good at this game! Must remember - sitting out a hand or 2 bad, splitting tens good. :clown:

RJT.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

What you mean you can't just check your phone for a hand or 2? You've got to sit through to the end? Just as well you're around to keep me in the know about what would get me tapped out of games otherwise i'd never be any good at this game! Must remember - sitting out a hand or 2 bad, splitting tens good. :clown:

RJT.

Yes. Once you are out, they will push your bet back if you try to reenter before the shuffle. Try it more than once, and you will soon have a suit-wearing audience for your act. Triple (or even double, sometimes) your bet and they will shuffle. Splitting tens isn't a problem because ploppies do that when they are steaming or feeling lucky; it's taking insurance at the right time that is more of a counter tell.

Shoe players nearly always get tossed out of the game the first time they try pitch, and they're quite astounded by the differences. You should try it sometime, very educational.

 

[RJT]

Yes. Once you are out, they will push your bet back if you try to reenter before the shuffle. Try it more than once, and you will soon have a suit-wearing audience for your act. Triple (or even double, sometimes) your bet and they will shuffle. Splitting tens isn't a problem because ploppies do that when they are steaming or feeling lucky; it's taking insurance at the right time that is more of a counter tell.

Shoe players nearly always get tossed out of the game the first time they try pitch, and they're quite astounded by the differences. You should try it sometime, very educational.

Wow, enlightenment. It's never less than surprising to realise that you couldn't re-enter a negative count when they don't get that many rounds out anyway. I suppose the real question would be why you'd want to? You know a double deck game, 75% penetration and 5 players and you're on the 4th round with a -ve count, sitting out to the end of the deck wouldn't seem that bad an idea to a neophyte like me. You might miss a +ve count or 2, but it would seem to me you'd miss far more -ve ones. It seems to me that not being able to re-enter until a fresh shuffle might actually benifit you, but again what do i know? :eyepatch:
Keep dolling out that advice about splitting 10's - it's a great plan. I know loads of pros that recommend doing it just like you say.

Of course wonging in and out aggressively is going to draw heat - although sitting out a few -ve hands here and there is going to draw far less attention than splitting 10.

RJT.

 

[Preston]

At the start of this thread there are two details that are being completely ignored:

It was heads up. Kind of hard to wait out a negative count when there are no other players.

IT was a pitch game and I could see there was between 5 and 10 cards left going into the hand.

 

[RJT]

At the start of this thread there are two details that are being completely ignored:

It was heads up. Kind of hard to wait out a negative count when there are no other players.

IT was a pitch game and I could see there was between 5 and 10 cards left going into the hand.

I wasn't commenting on your play, however i would still agree with Maz. I think that making a play like this one is likely to get you at least a side-ways look from a critter. If you were to pull stunts like that on any regular basis, it'd almost certainly get you a full review.

RJT.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Wow, enlightenment. It's never less than surprising to realise that you couldn't re-enter a negative count when they don't get that many rounds out anyway. I suppose the real question would be why you'd want to? You know a double deck game, 75% penetration and 5 players and you're on the 4th round with a -ve count, sitting out to the end of the deck wouldn't seem that bad an idea to a neophyte like me. You might miss a +ve count or 2, but it would seem to me you'd miss far more -ve ones. It seems to me that not being able to re-enter until a fresh shuffle might actually benifit you, but again what do i know? :eyepatch:
Keep dolling out that advice about splitting 10's - it's a great plan. I know loads of pros that recommend doing it just like you say.

Of course wonging in and out aggressively is going to draw heat - although sitting out a few -ve hands here and there is going to draw far less attention than splitting 10.

RJT.

Yes and no. Firstly the count in pitch is so volatile that it will commonly go from negative to positive in the course of a hand.

Sometimes missing the end of a DD shoe will work, as you suggest, it's just not something you can plan on always doing all the time like you can in a shoe game. Good DD opportunities are rare enough that you need to protect them. In SD it's usually impossible, because we're playing heads-up whenever possible, and never with more than one other player.

 

[jimbiggs]

I didn't really disagree with what you were saying, but there are polite ways to make a point. A while back there were several posters on this forum that were only here to make enemies. When I read your post, to me it sounded like that was your intention as well.

I just call em as I see em man. You can agree or disagree, doesn't matter either way, we are all entitled to an opinion. I just won't kiss the ass of somebody because they post a lot if what I think they're saying is garbage.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

I think that playing for meanningfull stakes comes into consideration when choosing a SD/DD game or any BJ game anywhere.

Playing a 10-50 dollar table, you may not have the most favorible rules. Part of being a skilled AP is to use all of these things to your advantage. There are places in Vegas that offer good SD/DD games which allow you to wong, enter mid deck etc but at the same time, your bankroll will dictate if you will survive at these tables. They are not cheap and, you will have to bring your A game.

No there is no good SD left in Las Vegas, just one or two merely playable games.

There are a few decent DD games, mostly on the outskirts, and then there are the high stakes DD games on the Strip. Your bankroll is the least of your worries in those games- they are heavily protected, you need an elaborate act, and when they catch you you might be Griffinized as well as banned. Not a good place to be aggressive. Much better off Wonging the shoes and going to Mississippi for your DD action.

 

[mdlbj]

The only DD game I have had any issues with in Vegas was one offered at the Orleans. Only made it through 2 shuffles. And I had to walk away. The games you are speaking of, I have never had any issues with either of the places.

 

[zengrifter]

The only DD game I have had any issues with in Vegas was one offered at the Orleans. Only made it through 2 shuffles. And I had to walk away.

What, bad pene? zg

 

[mdlbj]

They did not like my action. I think there were about 8 suites in the pit at the time I stood up and walked to the bar.

 

[RJT]

Yes and no. Firstly the count in pitch is so volatile that it will commonly go from negative to positive in the course of a hand.

Sometimes missing the end of a DD shoe will work, as you suggest, it's just not something you can plan on always doing all the time like you can in a shoe game. Good DD opportunities are rare enough that you need to protect them. In SD it's usually impossible, because we're playing heads-up whenever possible, and never with more than one other player.

[Slight edit by Sonny]

None of this changes my initial point - you can and should avoid playing negative counts. You know it really isn't that hard to dodge out a hand or 2 and if you've already got a -ve count, there's no reason to sit and play through the rest of the deck hoping that the volatility of the game will bring another +ve situation. Mobile phones are wonderful thing - they give so many excuses to sit out. Not that i'm saying you should try this with every -ve count, but you can certainly avoid a few of them and if you pick and choose your time you can avoid the middling to extreem -ves.

RJT.

 

[RJT]

Lol, ok Sonny, but if someone want to explain the very rudiments of the subject to me like i've never encountered a deck of cards before it seems to me that some sarcasm should be expected in response. I suppose it's all in the benefit of a friendlier community....

RJT.

 

[Sonny]

Lol, ok Sonny, but if someone want to explain the very rudiments of the subject to me like i've never encountered a deck of cards before it seems to me that some sarcasm should be expected in response.

Perhaps, but I think you'll agree that stories of sucking eggs and half-wit dogs are not always the most constructive forms of sarcasm.

-Sonny-

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Lol, ok Sonny, but if someone want to explain the very rudiments of the subject to me like i've never encountered a deck of cards before it seems to me that some sarcasm should be expected in response. I suppose it's all in the benefit of a friendlier community....

RJT.

Have you ever played single deck before, in a casino?

 

[RJT]

Perhaps, but I think you'll agree that stories of sucking eggs and half-wit dogs are not always the most constructive forms of sarcasm.

-Sonny-

Perhaps not, but it was damn funny from where i was sitting lol.

RJT.

 

[RJT]

Have you ever played single deck before, in a casino?

Nope, but i've had far more entertaining and useful advice from other players. Oh and BTW, none of them would recommend splitting 10's on any regular basis. Not that it can't be done, but you very much need the right situation and it's not gonna happen unless you don't intend to be back at that venue for some time.

RJT.