Another Newbie!

S

SBJ

Member
#1
#1
Firstly: Hi this site looks great!

I am in the UK and haven't had too much (like 1 or 2 hours total) experience in land based casinos (online bonuses 4 years ago or so saw me play 10,000s of hands). So I am alright (although a bit rusty) with BS, and a total newbie at Card Counting.

So a few questions, I plan to go to a casino tomorrow and flat bet the minimum (£2 a hand I think) to get some general table experience etc.

I was wondering if anyone had a link to a BS strategy chart that incorporates the Hi-Lo indices into it? I can see a list of them in several places but not a "print off" chart like you can get all over the net for normal BS?

The only other question I have is do all UK casinos generally have the same BJ rules? 6 decks etc? I understand there is generally no surrender, but is there also no insurance?

TIA and once again looks like a brilliant site I hope to be frequenting for quite some time!

Cheers

SBJ.
 
M

Martin Gayle

Well-Known Member
#2
#2
No insurance

I am not sure of UK games except the games are generally weak.

But what I am sure about is that a NO INSURANCE game is unplayable for a counter.
 
FLASH1296

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
#3
#3
The powers that be in England just recently passed
a new set of regulations governing the procedures for dealing BJ.

In brief, the casinos can keep the old rules that have been in effect for decades, making the game just plain awful - OR - they MAY choose to alter their rules to make their games similar to the better games found in the U S A

The old rules, that may very well still be in effect, wherever you are in England are/were as follows:

No Insurance, except against a dealer's blackjack.
No splitting of 4's or 10's
No Hole Card taken for the Dealer

I strongly urge you to shop around for a good game.

IF I find the link that references the precise English regulations, I will post it here.
 
UK-21

UK-21

Well-Known Member
#4
#4
Martin Gayle said:
I am not sure of UK games except the games are generally weak.

But what I am sure about is that a NO INSURANCE game is unplayable for a counter.
Click to expand...
Hmmm . . . I use to think it was a big thing but now I'm not convinced it is. I recently posed a question re the real loss in EV for not being able to insure at TC=>+3 in the ENHC-UK game, and the loss based on a simulation done was minimal (due to the instances in which the opportunity actually arises to do it). Mr Snyder himself responded on his site's forum and estimated it to be of little significance, although he did recommend someone running a sim.

As to the proscribed ruleset for BJ in the UK (which has recently been relaxed), a PDF with rules for all games can be pulled from the Gambling Commisssion's website. You're right - no surrender, no insurance other than taking even money on a blackjack.

In my travels I have found all shoes to be six deck although someone has posted those casinos in London that offer a four deck game.

The Illustrious 18 indices for hi-lo can be found by doing a search on forum postings.

Please let us know where the £2 min table(s) can be found.

Good luck.
 
S

SBJ

Member
#5
#5
Flash - having looked at what newb99 said, (Dead link: http://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/UploadDocs/publications/Document/Games%20%20Rules.pdf) appears to be the definitive ruling as to what can/can't happen (see page 15, which is actually 18 in the document).

newb99 - I can see them on the site thanks. I was wondering if there was a BS chart that you could download with them on? THat would be really useful.

re insurance: I agree that it is a bit of a pain, why does the government decided that we can't take insurance?! They should keep their noses out! :)

I know you should take insurance at TC >3, but should you take it if you have a BJ, because youa re lowering your payout odds? I would have thought the TC would need to be higher than 3 to take it if you had BJ on the table?

£2 tables can be found outside of London at some of these casinos:
http://www.stanleycasinos.co.uk/maxims/find/ (just click on the name and it gives you a list of min/max bets)

Cheers
SBJ
 
QFIT

QFIT

Well-Known Member
#7
#7
newb99 said:
Hmmm . . . I use to think it was a big thing but now I'm not convinced it is. I recently posed a question re the real loss in EV for not being able to insure at TC=>+3 in the ENHC-UK game, and the loss based on a simulation done was minimal (due to the instances in which the opportunity actually arises to do it). Mr Snyder himself responded on his site's forum and estimated it to be of little significance, although he did recommend someone running a sim.
Click to expand...
No Insurance doesn't destroy the game, but it does significantly harm it. Enough that teams have avoided travel to the UK.

See http://www.blackjackincolor.com/cardcountingcover6.htm for some Insurance sims.
 
S

SBJ

Member
#8
#8
Well I managed to play £2 hand BJ. I was amazed by the amount of superstition there was about! As far as I am aware I only made one BS error, where I miss read the cards and though A,2,9 was 21 where as it was only 12 :-( The look I got from one end of the table!

And when I arrived to play for the first time I was asked if I wouldn't mind sitting out until two guys lost a hand, they asked very nicely, but I'd have to be prepared to say nope if I was CC though, which could cause some good fun.

All of this was with CSM as well. Quite hard to take it all in for the first time of properly going to a casino, and I didn't even try to count cards once.
 
UK-21

UK-21

Well-Known Member
#9
#9
QFIT said:
No Insurance doesn't destroy the game, but it does significantly harm it. Enough that teams have avoided travel to the UK.
Click to expand...
When I say "minimal" that does take account of the fact that naturals can still be insured. It's the insurance on the non-natural hands that I queried (20s, 19s, 11s ?). Of these, some will lose the main hand but win the insurance bet (therby effectively turning a loss into a push), some will win the hand but lose the insurance bet (effectively reducing the payout), and some will lose both (effectively increasing the amount lost). I don't know what the actual loss in $/£s is for this per 000s hands is, but looking at the insurance frequencies in Mr S's BJA I wouldn't think the net effect is off the richter scale?
 
UK-21

UK-21

Well-Known Member
#10
#10
SuperTrump said:
I've played £2 a hand midweek at Casino At The Empire. :grin:
Click to expand...
Was it long ago? I have been told that I wouldn't find anything less than a five pound table within the M25!
 
QFIT

QFIT

Well-Known Member
#11
#11
newb99 said:
When I say "minimal" that does take account of the fact that naturals can still be insured. It's the insurance on the non-natural hands that I queried (20s, 19s, 11s ?). Of these, some will lose the main hand but win the insurance bet (therby effectively turning a loss into a push), some will win the hand but lose the insurance bet (effectively reducing the payout), and some will lose both (effectively increasing the amount lost). I don't know what the actual loss in $/£s is for this per 000s hands is, but looking at the insurance frequencies in Mr S's BJA I wouldn't think the net effect is off the richter scale?
Click to expand...
Insurance is the most important index. If you can only insure naturals, you miss about 17 out of 18 insurance opportunities.
 
S

SuperTrump

Active Member
#12
#12
newb99 said:
Was it long ago? I have been told that I wouldn't find anything less than a five pound table within the M25!
Click to expand...
I played there about 2 months ago... Was lunchtime on a mid-week day so don't know whether that makes a difference.... Minimum bets on Roulette were £2 a pop too! :grin:

P.S. Do you know of any BJ teams operating in London? If so perhaps you could PM me!
 
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UK-21

UK-21

Well-Known Member
#13
#13
QFIT said:
Insurance is the most important index. If you can only insure naturals, you miss about 17 out of 18 insurance opportunities.
Click to expand...
I believe you. But the question I think still to be answered with some numbers (via a sim?) is what is the net $/£ win/loss effect of those 17 lost opportunities? I do intend sometime to download freebie PowerSim(?) and try to run something to see what falls out.
 
M

Martin Gayle

Well-Known Member
#14
#14
SBJ said:
re insurance: I agree that it is a bit of a pain, why does the government decided that we can't take insurance?! They should keep their noses out! :)
Click to expand...
the anwser is...

QFIT said:
Insurance is the most important index. If you can only insure naturals, you miss about 17 out of 18 insurance opportunities.
Click to expand...
When we talk about insuring naturals, just remember the end is the same as "Taking even money". This is a common move for the civilian and is -EV unless at the index point.
 
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