any $5 tables in AC?

R

rrwoods

Well-Known Member
#41
#41
Thunder said:
It's very hard to get a seat at the $5 table at the Borgata unless you stop by weekdays in the early am. Resort's 6 deckers are at the $25 level and so are the Tropicana's. You may if you're lucky, be able to find some at Trump Plaza for $15.
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My girlfriend and I were at the Borgata yesterday to just get some BS experience in a real casino. We had $200 each that we could lose, and we were hoping for $5 tables. We didn't know there was a table that was always $5, so we were looking around the $10-$15 area looking for a $10 table to open up. We each blew through our first hundred on a $10 table, and then stepped outside for a stroll and got some food.

We came back in, looking in the same area for another seat at a $10 table. It was more difficult this time since it was later. Walking along we noticed a table with two seats open and sat down... then she looks at the sign and says "holy **** it's a five dollar minimum".

Also, woohoo at every table in the Borgata being S17 :)
 
ChefJJ

ChefJJ

Well-Known Member
#42
#42
Nice report, rrwoods. Haven't been to the Borgata for a while now, but will be there next Saturday morning to start things off. I have to admit that all S17 is nice, and the bouncy craps tables aren't too much of an issue for me these days.

Thanks and good luck.
 
ChefJJ

ChefJJ

Well-Known Member
#44
#44
21forme said:
I was at the Borg last week. It's pretty much unplayable these days for a wonger. Tables are just too crowded.
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That is a shame...the crowds are part of the reason why I haven't been there in a while. I've got a couple good friends coming in from out of town, so wonging is out of the question anyhow. Knowing that it is a S17 joint, how is the pen generally, then?

good luck
 
R

rrwoods

Well-Known Member
#45
#45
ChefJJ said:
That is a shame...the crowds are part of the reason why I haven't been there in a while. I've got a couple good friends coming in from out of town, so wonging is out of the question anyhow. Knowing that it is a S17 joint, how is the pen generally, then?

good luck
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In my experience it was 80% across the board, though I was only paying attention to the $5 - $15 tables.
 
2

21forme

Well-Known Member
#47
#47
In my experience you're very lucky if you find 80% pen. They tend to cut 1.5-1.75 decks off the 6D games. I haven't paid much attention to the 8D games lately. 6D games are dealt in the 2 pits when you first walk in from the garage (one of which is NMS) and the one between the cashier and Amphora lounge . 8D games are in the pit near the poker room and 3 tables near the Gypsy Bar.
 
R

rrwoods

Well-Known Member
#49
#49
21forme said:
In my experience you're very lucky if you find 80% pen. They tend to cut 1.5-1.75 decks off the 6D games. I haven't paid much attention to the 8D games lately. 6D games are dealt in the 2 pits when you first walk in from the garage (one of which is NMS) and the one between the cashier and Amphora lounge . 8D games are in the pit near the poker room and 3 tables near the Gypsy Bar.
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I saw them cutting about 1.5-1.75 decks off of eight, which is right around 80%.
 
P

preacher

Member
#50
#50
At Borgata, instead of Wonging in, I usually start a shoe because of the crowds. It IS really hard to "Wong in" there. Of course, Wonging out is pretty easy. But, if you are only playing the $5 table you get one "Wong out" then you are pretty much done for a long while.

With only one $5 table, another option would be to keep your seat but not play on negative counts. You can do this several ways: get a phone call, nature call; say your luck is running out and you want to wait a hand or two until it feels right; etc.

On the other hand, I play usually green or higher and find it real easy to get them to cut down to one deck when I play head-to-head or with one or two others. I use the hints given by Ian Anderson in his book.
 
ChefJJ

ChefJJ

Well-Known Member
#51
#51
I would have to imagine that wonging period at a casino's only $5 table seems pretty futile. It'll be a play-all afternoon all things considered. Sometimes life is about more than business :grin:

good luck:joker:
 
2

21forme

Well-Known Member
#52
#52
Just got back from AC. Borgata was the most crowded I've ever seen it last night. The parking garage was almost full! What economic downturn? There is a poker tournament going on there, so that probably had something to do with it.
 
T

Thunder

Well-Known Member
#53
#53
Yeah I was surprised at how packed it was in AC. I didn't even see a single seat at a table at Showboat (just passing through) or Resorts. As far as I'm concerned, there is only one playable property on the boardwalk.
 
Automatic Monkey

Automatic Monkey

Banned
#54
#54
21forme said:
Just got back from AC. Borgata was the most crowded I've ever seen it last night. The parking garage was almost full! What economic downturn? There is a poker tournament going on there, so that probably had something to do with it.
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I'm convinced the lack of business for casinos is mostly BS. Just another industry looking for handouts and special treatment. Sure, casinos lose money, but how much of the loss is due to lack of income and how much due to scams by management?
 
C

Cherry7Up

Well-Known Member
#55
#55
Automatic Monkey said:
I'm convinced the lack of business for casinos is mostly BS. Just another industry looking for handouts and special treatment. Sure, casinos lose money, but how much of the loss is due to lack of income and how much due to scams by management?
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Perhaps the lack of income is more from room prices and other convention-related (non-gambling) business that is now absent? Moreover, are fewer pits open at a time in order to maintain the crowds in the pits that are open?

Flash's monthly AC revenue reports seem like a good source to determine financial trouble based on gambling increases/decreases.
 
2

21forme

Well-Known Member
#56
#56
Part of the decrease in table income is typical management stupidity.
Examples:

They have less tables open, so it's harder to get a seat to play. Plenty of people meandering around looking for a spot to play. No play, no pay.

They have the wrong tables open. Example - some AC casinos have no Spanish 21 tables open grave shift. Yet, there are dealers twiddling their thumbs at empty BJ and 3CP tables. Being a very popular game, as soon as the Sp21 tables open, they fill up.

They have less pit staff, so coloring up, buying in, etc. takes longer. The other day, when I colored up, it literally took 5 minutes to get a PC over to the table to approve the exchange. How much money was that table generating during those 5 minutes? ZERO!
 
S

SystemsTrader

Well-Known Member
#57
#57
Automatic Monkey said:
I'm convinced the lack of business for casinos is mostly BS. Just another industry looking for handouts and special treatment. Sure, casinos lose money, but how much of the loss is due to lack of income and how much due to scams by management?
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I totally agree with you AM, the casinos in the East seem as busy as ever to me. However I have noticed on my last two trips to Vegas that it does seem a lot quieter out there.
 
Automatic Monkey

Automatic Monkey

Banned
#58
#58
21forme said:
Part of the decrease in table income is typical management stupidity.
Examples:

They have less tables open, so it's harder to get a seat to play. Plenty of people meandering around looking for a spot to play. No play, no pay.

They have the wrong tables open. Example - some AC casinos have no Spanish 21 tables open grave shift. Yet, there are dealers twiddling their thumbs at empty BJ and 3CP tables. Being a very popular game, as soon as the Sp21 tables open, they fill up.

They have less pit staff, so coloring up, buying in, etc. takes longer. The other day, when I colored up, it literally took 5 minutes to get a PC over to the table to approve the exchange. How much money was that table generating during those 5 minutes? ZERO!
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The dealers at the empty tables with the carnival games always puzzled me until you start thinking of it from the perspective of a manager giving a report to his clueless superiors.

A manager takes a dealer off a BJ table with a 0.5% HE and moves him to a Caribbean Stud table with a 5% HE. The BJ table was full and had players betting green to black. The CS table gets a couple of $5 and $10 players per hour, who play for a few minutes then move on.

Now the manager is presenting his spreadsheet at a meeting...

"I diverted our dealer resource from a low-margin gaming opportunity to one with ten times the profitability per dollar wagered."

The executives nod approvingly. "Why, that's wonderful! You deserve a promotion! Too bad all of our shift managers aren't as smart as you."

The SP21 paradox is even weirder. They must make so much money on those tables. But I think the hang-up is paying for new layouts, being SP21 isn't a public domain game and those felts aren't cheap. Casinos do not like to gamble and perhaps no one wants to take the risk of signing off on a purchase of 4 new SP21 tables. But they don't have a problem buying carnival games which are less popular and haven't been around as long as SP21. I think casino managers can use the high house edges of carnival games to cover their asses from bad decisions involving them.
 
S

sabre

Well-Known Member
#59
#59
21forme said:
They have less tables open, so it's harder to get a seat to play. Plenty of people meandering around looking for a spot to play. No play, no pay.
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Bingo. I was stunned by the current state of Vegas. They are employing the "manage to full" technique. Fewer pits open = more crowding. Casinos make far more money with 2 tables of 3 players than 1 table of 6 players. Easily more than enough to offset the additional costs associated with having the extra table open.

Getting a heads up game was significantly harder for me this trip than it was even just 4 months ago.
 
2

21forme

Well-Known Member
#60
#60
Automatic Monkey said:
The SP21 paradox is even weirder. They must make so much money on those tables. But I think the hang-up is paying for new layouts, being SP21 isn't a public domain game and those felts aren't cheap. Casinos do not like to gamble and perhaps no one wants to take the risk of signing off on a purchase of 4 new SP21 tables. But they don't have a problem buying carnival games which are less popular and haven't been around as long as SP21. I think casino managers can use the high house edges of carnival games to cover their asses from bad decisions involving them.
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Most of the casinos have more than enough Sp21 tables. They just don't utilize them. For example, Caesars AC has 7 (plus or minus 1) Sp21 tables. Currently, none are open on grave, 2 1/2 are open day (shift starts at noon but tables don't open until 2 PM), and 3 are open on swing.
 
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