any skill to cut the small cards to the end which we wont play

[Blue Efficacy]

I disagree about cutting low cards to the front, again this increases the chances of cutting big cards out of play vs a "blind cut."

You will be better off playing more rounds when the deck is in the player's favor. Although cutting low cards to the front offers some merit. You can use some deep negative index plays for both cover and to annoy other players who might wish to leave after seeing how "bad" you are.

 

[creeping panther]

Blue

I disagree about cutting low cards to the front, again this increases the chances of cutting big cards out of play vs a "blind cut."

You will be better off playing more rounds when the deck is in the player's favor. Although cutting low cards to the front offers some merit. You can use some deep negative index plays for both cover and to annoy other players who might wish to leave after seeing how "bad" you are.

I agree totally with you.

CP

 

[21gunsalute]

It's the easiest method of shuffle tracking and a great place to start. You would estimate the count of the low-card slug and add it to your initial running count. If the slug was small (just a few cards) then you can do your TC conversions and bet sizing normally. If the slug was a significant size then you just subtract it from your discard estimation. For example, if you cut a one-deck segment with 3 extra low cards to the back, start your running count at +3 instead of 0 and consider one deck to be in the discards (since you already counted it and it is out of play). You can use the same betting spread and indices that you normally would. All you are doing is playing against a smaller shoe with a positive running count off the top. It's every card counter's dream! :gaga:



The double downs are going to be the same during the "hot" section of the shoe either way. You are not changing the results of your big bets at all, and that is where all of your EV is. The only difference is that you are playing a few -EV hands off the top while waiting for the count to increase.

Also, think about the heat issues with this method. You are turning every shoe into a shoe that turns positive right away, then betting with the count. Imagine how easy it would be to pick off a card counter if every shoe was positive. When you cut those small cards to the back you are betting bigger off the top and maintaining a medium bet size instead of jumping from min to max as the count rises. Cutting the small clump to the back increases your EV and gives you some degree of cover.

Both methods will increase the frequency of high counts, decrease the frequency of low counts and improve your EV. Cutting them to the front is better for beginners who want to verify their results, but they should feel comfortable cutting them to the back soon enough.

-Sonny-

While I agree with much of what you're saying, I still think you'll get many more double down opportunities cutting the small cards to the front. Also, with a normal shuffle it isn't possible to cut the small cards out of play when the shoe ends well into the negative range as they'll already be in the back of the pack. Better to cut them to the front IMO.

Yes, I am pretty much a beginner at this, but like I said, this has worked well for me and I think the results could be disasterous if I tried to cut the small cards out of play. It's easy to identify where the small cards are when the shoe ends negatively and move them to the front. If they're somewhere else in the pack I may not pick the exact location and may be cutting big cards out of play. And it seems much clearer how much to bet when using my method. Cutting small cards out of play may well be a good advanced technique, but I don't think it's something one should just jump into. One needs to learn to crawl before walking and running, and if something is working well I don't see any reason to tamper with it.

 

[Blue Efficacy]

While I agree with much of what you're saying, I still think you'll get many more double down opportunities cutting the small cards to the front. Also, with a normal shuffle it isn't possible to cut the small cards out of play when the shoe ends well into the negative range as they'll already be in the back of the pack. Better to cut them to the front IMO.

Yes, I am pretty much a beginner at this, but like I said, this has worked well for me and I think the results could be disasterous if I tried to cut the small cards out of play. It's easy to identify where the small cards are when the shoe ends negatively and move them to the front. If they're somewhere else in the pack I may not pick the exact location and may be cutting big cards out of play. And it seems much clearer how much to bet when using my method. Cutting small cards out of play may well be a good advanced technique, but I don't think it's something one should just jump into. One needs to learn to crawl before walking and running, and if something is working well I don't see any reason to tamper with it.

You'll get fewer double downs at higher counts but they will bear more fruit.

Those small cards will give you more failed double downs due to getting small card for double down card, as well as dealer drawing small cards to beat you.

These small cards will also prevent you from getting BJs which are THE moneymaker.

 

[Sucker]

There's more than one way to skin a cat. But there's only one BEST way. Whether you cut the small cards to the front (in play), or to the back (out of play); you'll STILL make money.

If you cut them to the front, it's like having a money tree in your back yard; one that bears $10 bills.

Personally; I like cutting the small cards to the back & out of play. I'll have hundred dollar bills growing on MY money tree.

How can any card counter who's smart enough to identify sections of small cards; claim that he's NOT smart enough to handle cutting them out of play? This puzzles me greatly. I can hardly believe we're even HAVING this conversation.....

 

[bigplayer]

Cutting Bigs vs Smalls

It's much more valuable to cut big cards to a small area in play than it is to cut small cards out of play. Think about it and it becomes obvious. Obviously cutting small cards out of play has some value and if it's all you've got then do it.

 

[Blue Efficacy]

It's much more valuable to cut big cards to a small area in play than it is to cut small cards out of play. Think about it and it becomes obvious. Obviously cutting small cards out of play has some value and if it's all you've got then do it.

Cutting small cards out of play is less advantageous than controlling a big slug, yes. But it is also less dangerous if you're an amateur.

Small cards to the back allows you to just set your initial running count higher, and you can play a straight counting game if you desire at that point. Also, if penetration isn't poor you know that if you have a high count it should come down.

 

[21gunsalute]

There's more than one way to skin a cat. But there's only one BEST way. Whether you cut the small cards to the front (in play), or to the back (out of play); you'll STILL make money.

If you cut them to the front, it's like having a money tree in your back yard; one that bears $10 bills.

Personally; I like cutting the small cards to the back & out of play. I'll have hundred dollar bills growing on MY money tree.

How can any card counter who's smart enough to identify sections of small cards; claim that he's NOT smart enough to handle cutting them out of play? This puzzles me greatly. I can hardly believe we're even HAVING this conversation.....

Maybe you should re-read what I said, because what you appear to be attributing to me is not what I stated at all.

 

[21gunsalute]

Cutting small cards out of play is less advantageous than controlling a big slug, yes. But it is also less dangerous if you're an amateur.

Small cards to the back allows you to just set your initial running count higher, and you can play a straight counting game if you desire at that point. Also, if penetration isn't poor you know that if you have a high count it should come down.

What about when the shoe ends in the negative and the small cards are already in the back? That's what I'm talking about.