AP interest in Poker

B

BMDD

Well-Known Member
#1
#1
Why is there not more of an interest in poker among AP's? Initially I would suspect that this is because poker contains more of a grey area as far as advantages not being as easily justifiable by math, but as I have began to take more of an interest in poker I am starting to feel this is a naive way of thinking.

It appears to me that poker offers a vast amount of AP opportunity given the following considerations:

1. Longevity-When you find a juicy game you can camp out as long as you'd like or until the juice dissipates.

2. Accessibility-There is no shortage on games of all shapes and sizes. Many players don't even need to get out of bed to go to work at the poker table.

3. Promotions-House added $$, Free-rolls, Rakebacks, etc. Imagine getting a loss-rebate on a game that pays 2:1 blackjacks!


Now don't get me wrong, the purpose of this thread is not to express that I am selling out to become a poker dweeb. I believe there is an element of satisfaction to be had from playing cat and mouse with the casino and beating house-banked games. Although I do feel like poker offers a realm of opportunity that is often overlooked by general AP's.
 
aslan

aslan

Well-Known Member
#2
#2
BMDD said:
Why is there not more of an interest in poker among AP's? Initially I would suspect that this is because poker contains more of a grey area as far as advantages not being as easily justifiable by math, but as I have began to take more of an interest in poker I am starting to feel this is a naive way of thinking.

It appears to me that poker offers a vast amount of AP opportunity given the following considerations:

1. Longevity-When you find a juicy game you can camp out as long as you'd like or until the juice dissipates.

2. Accessibility-There is no shortage on games of all shapes and sizes. Many players don't even need to get out of bed to go to work at the poker table.

3. Promotions-House added $$, Free-rolls, Rakebacks, etc. Imagine getting a loss-rebate on a game that pays 2:1 blackjacks!


Now don't get me wrong, the purpose of this thread is not to express that I am selling out to become a poker dweeb. I believe there is an element of satisfaction to be had from playing cat and mouse with the casino and beating house-banked games. Although I do feel like poker offers a realm of opportunity that is often overlooked by general AP's.
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It's been my experience that when you find an AP at one thing, he's liable to be an AP at another, maybe several other, things. Many on this Forum are poker players. Many also are craps players, sports bettors, VP players, and advantage slot players, and the list goes on.
 
T

Thunder

Well-Known Member
#3
#3
I think lots of AP's avoid poker NL poker because it requires a whole different side of the brain to be good. You have to have a high risk tolerance, a naturally aggressive tendency, have good math skills and be able to read people well. Most AP bj players I've seen have pretty good fundamental math skills but can lack in the other areas.
 
S

Sucker

Well-Known Member
#4
#4
BMDD said:
Why is there not more of an interest in poker among AP's?
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The whole premise of the question is flawed. For every AP who specializes in BJ, there are probably a hundred or MORE who specialize in poker; and for the reasons you've stated.
 
B

BMDD

Well-Known Member
#5
#5
Sucker said:
The whole premise of the question is flawed. For every AP who specializes in BJ, there are probably a hundred or MORE who specialize in poker; and for the reasons you've stated.
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I agree, Sucker. The question should have been, "Why don't many Blackjack AP's play poker?"
 
K

KimLee

Well-Known Member
#6
#6
Blackjack players are cautious nits, whereas poker players are gamboolers. If more blackjack players read Kill Phil then they would switch to poker. Kill Phil gives a winning basic strategy.
 
1

1357111317

Well-Known Member
#7
#7
KimLee said:
Blackjack players are cautious nits, whereas poker players are gamboolers. If more blackjack players read Kill Phil then they would switch to poker. Kill Phil gives a winning basic strategy.
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Please tell me this is a big big level. (Leveling someone=using sarcasm for those not in the 2p2 community)
 
Y

Young Man

Member
#9
#9
I used to play poker a lot, was reasonably good. Problem is that when you play NL there is a very high risk of ruin. I would go weeks winning only to lose all in a few hours as a result of very bad luck. You can make all the correct decisions and still lose in poker. Plus it's a very slow game amd after many years it's difficult to stay patient which is a must. After playing NL any other type of poker just doesn't measure up.
So my reason: played so much i can't stand it anymore. Do not have enough patience amymore. Can no longer tolerate the feeling of losing large amounts to bad players who get lucky (it only takes 1 every 100 to ruin you). Yes you can make money from bad players but one of them will eventually get lucky and take you down.
 
1

1357111317

Well-Known Member
#10
#10
Young Man said:
I used to play poker a lot, was reasonably good.

Yes you can make money from bad players but one of them will eventually get lucky and take you down.
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You probably werent that good then if that is yoru sentiment. Yes they will get lucky and suckout on you but more often than not you will win with the better hand.
 
aslan

aslan

Well-Known Member
#12
#12
1357111317 said:
but more often than not you will win with the better hand.
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I think even more so if you play 7-card stud, but not many places offer that game any more. The Taj and the Borgata are the only places I know of currently.
 
moo321

moo321

Well-Known Member
#13
#13
aslan said:
I think even more so if you play 7-card stud, but not many places offer that game any more. The Taj and the Borgata are the only places I know of currently.
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Holdem generally offers better odds to the better starting hand. From what I've read, holdem has a slightly higher EV and lower SD than stud. This is all game dependent, however: I used to play lots of stud because I found some good games.
 
S

Syph

Well-Known Member
#14
#14
You can beat the smaller stakes, live NL cash games, quite easily with "raw math".

Here's an article to get you started:

http://www.cardplayer.com/cardplayer-magazines/65688-dan-harrington-20-24/articles/17168-a-foolproof-strategy-for-wild-games (Archive copy)

When you double, head to another poker room. You only need about three to circulate all night. Embellish with a little holecarding, if you are so inclined. Dealers (and players) are quite sloppy at these stakes.

Download pokerstove:

http://www.pokerstove.com/

And plug some of your hands in at the end of each session. You should find yourself with some strong overlays.

Best,
Syph
 
aslan

aslan

Well-Known Member
#15
#15
moo321 said:
Holdem generally offers better odds to the better starting hand. From what I've read, holdem has a slightly higher EV and lower SD than stud. This is all game dependent, however: I used to play lots of stud because I found some good games.
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It seems it should have a lower EV since variance appears to me at least to play a much larger role in Holdem. In 7 stud, I figure I'll win 40% or more of the hands I decide to play. I don't know what % of hands played a good player should win in Holdem.
 
moo321

moo321

Well-Known Member
#17
#17
fubster said:
stud, and limit games in general, are much higher variance than their bigbet counterparts, contrary to popular belief.
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My understanding is that they have higher variance relative to your bankroll, but lower relative to the big blind.

For example, with the same roll you may play 1-2 NL or 5-10 Limit. The limit game may have a $50/hr variance, while the NL may have $40. More big blinds, but less total variance.
 
moo321

moo321

Well-Known Member
#18
#18
aslan said:
It seems it should have a lower EV since variance appears to me at least to play a much larger role in Holdem. In 7 stud, I figure I'll win 40% or more of the hands I decide to play. I don't know what % of hands played a good player should win in Holdem.
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No, I believe holdem tends to have better EV, especially when it is played NL.

Does anyone have their pokertracker stats for various games? Posting them would help this thread a lot...
 
aslan

aslan

Well-Known Member
#19
#19
fubster said:
stud, and limit games in general, are much higher variance than their bigbet counterparts, contrary to popular belief.
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Interesting. Do you have a source on that? Are you only talking about no limit holdem, not limit holdem?
 
F

fubster

Well-Known Member
#20
#20
aslan said:
Interesting. Do you have a source on that? Are you only talking about no limit holdem, not limit holdem?
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limit games, in general, have higher standard deviations than no limit games (not including plo because that game is absurd).

don't have any sources. limit holdem is an extremely high variance game, though.
 
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