Arguments While Playing BJ

smooth191988 · Mar 30, 2009

So I'm not a huge gambler, not more than once a month. I'm 20 and live about 30 minutes from Caesars in Canada, so its not that bad of a ride. I find that people start getting very aggressive when you sit down at "their" table even after asking the players. I was playing a table for about an hour with the min set at $25 and was going back and forth between betting min and some random amount. There was this older guy that would randomly come to the table throw $100 down on a hand and walk away. Well they were resetting the decks and I was going to sit out on the first couple play's (never have luck) and this old guy says "are you playing or what" I said "nope" and he says "****ing jack ass" and walks away. I understand that people may be counting cards and needs you in the hand, but I had half a nerve to punch this guy old or not.

I ended up walking away up $1100 and this guys like "dumb sob, why color out" I just walked away and hes jumps up and walks to another table.

This happens almost every time, its like these people expect you to play when they say and if you dont they get bitchy about it.

I know that I'm just a "lucky" player in their eyes but how do you guys deal with these kinds of people without getting kicked out?

moo321 · Mar 30, 2009

Next time, call the floor over and tell them that this guy is treating you abusively.

Unless you were counting cards, in which case you need to get used to abuse, and do as little as possible in response.

SleightOfHand · Mar 30, 2009

moo321 said:

Judging from his lack of knowledge of card counting, I would assume hes not a counter. The other person has no right to tell you how to count cards. If he gets angry and starts yelling, call over a pit boss or whoever and if he doesn't calm down, HE will be the one kicked out.

Mimosine · Mar 30, 2009

best thing with people like this, especially if you are young is to IGNORE it. do your best to bite your tongue. a casino isn't a grocery store or your local GAP. a lot of the people inside aren't the type you would want to start an altercation with.

if someone threatens you, then by all means contact security immediately.

if it gets too bad, the best thing would be for YOU to find a different table. i'm a slightly large-ish person, and have very little tolerance for bad behavior, so if someone pushes me around i usually push back, but only enough to gauge what type of person they are. e.g. "there are plenty of tables over there where i'm not playing." or the standard, "these are my chips, if you want me to play different pass me some of yours." if they get the hint, good, if they get more hostile, I pack up my things, there is always a new shift a few hours away when i can come back and they will most likely be gone.

i don't want to get robbed or jumped in a parking lot. casinos are pretty safe, but things CAN happen, it is always best to make sure that you avoid such things.

Pelerus · Mar 30, 2009

On my last trip, there was an older black lady at my table - a real piece of work. After every losing hand she had a critique of someone or something at the table, usually mumbled under her breath. The expression on her face could have soured milk on contact. She would then roll her eyes - which was a sight to behold, since she had a lazy eye like you wouldn't believe, keeping one eye on the action at all times though venomously avoiding looking directly at the table. And her nails... Those grotesquely long, pink nails scratching and tapping their way to a hit will be forever imprinted on my brain. :cry:

At one point, the only other fellow at the table besides us was an African - a legitimate African, not the American variety. I was thinking Nigerian, though I could be way off. In any case, I am dealt a soft 18 against a dealer 4 and double...then all hell breaks loose.

Both the lady and the man take personal offense at my decision, with the lady insisting, "an 18 against a 4 is a winning hand!" I didn't think it would be a good idea to point out that I received a face card on the double, so my hand was...still an 18. The man then added his own unique insight: "There were already two threes on the table!"

It was all I could do not to make the pertinent observation: "What is this, roundtable diplomacy? If I wanted the advice of the African General Assembly, I would consult the UN."

Eventually, the pit boss even tried to come to my rescue with the basic strategy card: "See - he was right!" You know you've been sufficiently ploppified when the pit crew suddenly becomes your friend. :grin:

creeping panther · Mar 30, 2009

Most

Pelerus said:

On my last trip, there was an older black lady at my table - a real piece of work. After every losing hand she had a critique of someone or something at the table, usually mumbled under her breath. The expression on her face could have soured milk on contact. She would then roll her eyes - which was a sight to behold, since she had a lazy eye like you wouldn't believe, keeping one eye on the action at all times though venomously avoiding looking directly at the table. And her nails... Those grotesquely long, pink nails scratching and tapping their way to a hit will be forever imprinted on my brain. :cry:

At one point, the only other fellow at the table besides us was an African - a legitimate African, not the American variety. I was thinking Nigerian, though I could be way off. In any case, I am dealt a soft 18 against a dealer 4 and double...then all hell breaks loose.

Both the lady and the man take personal offense at my decision, with the lady insisting, "an 18 against a 4 is a winning hand!" I didn't think it would be a good idea to point out that I received a face card on the double, so my hand was...still an 18. The man then added his own unique insight: "There were already two threes on the table!"

It was all I could do not to make the pertinent observation: "What is this, roundtable diplomacy? If I wanted the advice of the African General Assembly, I would consult the UN."

Eventually, the pit boss even tried to come to my rescue with the basic strategy card: "See - he was right!" You know you've been sufficiently ploppified when the pit crew suddenly becomes your friend. :grin:

Of these type of people are addicted gamblers and are on the brink, better to just play along, stay kool, be polite. You never know when they will go over the edge.

CP

johndoe · Mar 30, 2009

If you are an AP, you need to use these people to your advantage: either for cover, to eat up cards in a bad count, or to scare them off in a good count. Watch for opportunities and take them.

They are annoying, but they become much less so if they're helping you without knowing it.

Turtleman · Mar 30, 2009

I'm afraid I see this kind of crap all the time, although last week's trip was probably the first in years that I personally didn't encounter this kind of rude and ignorant behavior. I expect it, and always make sure my newbie friends do too. Hoping for the best, but expecting the worst makes it easier to cope. Like some of the others have said, it's better to keep cool and roll with the punches (figuratively, of course) than to provoke something that could get extremely ugly. If need be, move or complain to the boss. T-4

callipygian · Mar 30, 2009

Ignore anyone who isn't talking directly to you about something specific you did at the table. Pretend not to speak English if you really feel the need to say anything (even if you speak perfect English to the dealer). If they threaten you in any way, insta-report it to the pit.

If they're commenting on how you play your hand, offer to sell them your hand (100% of value for losing hands, 150% of value for winning hands) and say that so long as your money is on the table, you will play your hand the way you feel like. Remember to always use the word "feel" at the table - you do not admit to making an independent, objective analysis of the cards; rather, you "feel" like playing a certain way. When/if people comment on changing your play (as the count changes), the standard response is simply you felt like playing it this way this time. They will generally feel absolutely superior to you because they "know" the right way to play and you're a moron for playing on a whim, and they'll shut up.

mulehead126 · Mar 30, 2009

It's tempting to say "An 18 vs. a 4 IS a winning hand...but doubling down yields more"...but what's the use!

Depending on the situation, when I take abuse for making the correct play, I usually either:

1) Act stupid and say nothing.

2) Ask the criticizer what his secret is to knowing what card is coming out next - great when you "took the dealer's bust card", etc.

3) Ask the "expert" how much of HIS money is being played at MY seat - not recommended if the expert is a large individual! :laugh:

I will though add that I am no fan of a player who sits out the first few hands, or constantly plays a hand or two, sits out, etc. Unless the players are taking a beating and someone sits out a hand to "change things up" - I'll do that - after asking if anyone minds. I know it really doesn't matter but hey, it's karma.

But as far as taking crap from others, etc., hey if there are other tables just move. I like to play with people who are having a good time, or at least aren't total jerks if they are losing. It's really tempting to "prove" you are smarter at BJ that a jerk is, but they won't believe you. Forget your ego, remember it never hurts to have the pit people think you are an idiot too! Plus what are the chances you'll ever see those same people again. Just move along...

I'm also a little surprised they let a guy constantly jump in for only a hand betting $100...

ihate17 · Mar 30, 2009

equate it to a different place

smooth191988 said:

At 20 years old your casino experience is quite limited. In a casino there is a huge percentage of people who are addicted gamblers and some of these will show some of the worst behavior imaginable when they are losing.
You might find it similar to going to a club where you know that a large percentage of patrons are also addicted but to drugs. Almost anything can happen and if you go often enough, over years you will see it all.

You set your own persona up in this enviorment if you can. Though I am over 3X your age, I was a tough guy in my younger days, still kind of look it and have this "death stare" down pat. For others often just ignoring the comments of idiots is the best advice. I have also sold my hands to high rollers (a form of I will play your way but only with your money).

If you can find a way to not let these people bother you it could result in some great stories that you could tell your 20 year old buds about all these
older folks who act like complete jerks once they enter a casino.

ihate17

EasyRhino · Mar 30, 2009

It's easy to explain easy double. Just say you're greedy.

smooth191988 · Mar 31, 2009

I in no way count cards, I play by basic strategy and it seems to work. I think the reason I catch so much hell is the fact that most of the time im the youngest player at the table and when I'm on a hot streak people seem to get aggressive. Like for example the same night, I through $75 down ended up getting a 21. The next hand I bet $25 the min bet and caught allot of crap from that. This guy tells me to expect to win the next 3 hands after catching a 21 and dont bet low after pulling a AJ. I ended up losing the hand, had a 17 with the dealer showing a Jack. I ended up hitting got a 2 so I had 19 dealer ends up two face cards. So I sorta laughed under my breath and he wasn’t to happy about it.

I go to earn some extra cash and have some fun with the friends these types of people often get me in a bad mood so I end up at the nearest strip club throwing a few back haha. I guess its best to ignore it, but for every person like this theres always one thats willing to help when your in a touch situation.

callipygian · Mar 31, 2009

smooth191988 said:

You can usually tell the people who are valuable. They know - not think - they're right, so they don't care about whether you "take the dealer's bust card" or "screw up the flow of cards." They'll tell you once what the right move is and then leave you alone.

Slick Vic · Mar 31, 2009

Play long enough at these tables and you can start to get a second sense of who's going to get huffy about your play. I've usually found that middle aged female smokers and old men tend to get the most upset at how other people play. Also, people who are obviously down quite a bit of money tend to get pretty easily agitated as well.

I'll never forget this story- before I learned to count cards, I was just playing straight BS at a table with two other guys. The guy next to me is getting very angry, he's down about $400 at a $10 min bet table. There's a promotion going on for a free bet- he's waiting for the pit crew to approve his mail offer for a $25 free bet. He finally gets it, and he puts a black chip down on the felt and his $25 free bet on the perfect pairs side bet. Right before the dealer begins, the pit boss comes over and tells his that free bets are not valid for side bets. So, the guy places his free bet under the black chip for a total of $125 bet. The cards are dealt, and he gets a jack of clubs and a jack of spades. He would have been paid 10 to 1 for this. His face turns red and clenches his fist. The dealer peeks under his king and flips over his hole card to reveal an ace.

This really set the guy off! He stands up so fast his chair falls back, and he shouts out quite loudly "god****it! F**k!" He stood there, looking like he was ready to kill the dealer. He then asks "how the hell did that happen? Huh?" He grabbed his few remaining chips from the table and left, not bothering to pick his chair back up. Everyone at the table just watched him walk away in silence. The pit boss then informed a nearby security guard to keep an eye on the guy, and the guard started following him.

People become real powder kegs at the tables. Never underestimate how crazy an angry ploppy will get.

ihate17 · Mar 31, 2009

You have a double wammy

smooth191988 said:

I in no way count cards, I play by basic strategy and it seems to work. I think the reason I catch so much hell is the fact that most of the time im the youngest player

Smooth
It is more than your age. What you will understand in time is that if you play basic strategy you are going to get this kind of heat from other players very often. The amazing thing about blackjack and the players is that fewer than 1% play basic strategy perfectly and yet the vast majority of them consider themselves experts with the power to tell everyone and anyone how to play.
Everytime you hit your 12 vs 2 or 3, everytime you get a soft 18 and either hit it or double it according to the dealer's card, and everytime you split a pair of 9's, you are playing correctly but when things do not work out you can expect to feel that heat from players.

The real bad player, the guy who doubles a 7, and splits his 3's vs an A etc, will also get bad heat from players.

The only people who do not get a regular dose of this stuff are the regular losers in most casinos who play some kind of semi BS which probably increases the house edge by around a percent or so.

As a cardcounter I do not think I catch any more of this stuff than a player who plays BS, the big exception is the jerk who might out me by complaining out loud on why I play identical hands differently at different time. My only concern though is heat from the casino.

As a young person, the voodoo player who was giving you advice about not lowering your bet is probably thinking he was going to help you. He is a believer in the religion of blackjack, The Sacred Holy Flow of the All Knowing Cards. Just remember that it is a religion that seems to have it's members donate constantly to casinos.

You will be fine, just get used to a bunch of grouchy old folks.

ihate17

Pelerus · Mar 31, 2009

Pelerus said:

Can't believe I forgot to mention this in my story, but in one memorable hand prior to the outburst, I had a $100 bet out and doubled, ending up with an 18. The dealer hit to 19, but mistakenly proceeded to pay my bet. I then waited for the other shoe to drop, because I knew it would shortly follow: "You have a 19!" And from where might that spot on and perfectly timed observation have come? Oh yes - from the lazy-eyed hag two seats over who had just cost me two hundred dollars, but who I'm sure savored that moment far more than winning one of the $25 bets she was making. :whip:

Katweezel · Mar 31, 2009

Evil eye

Pelerus said:

Can't believe I forgot to mention this in my story, but in one memorable hand prior to the outburst, I had a $100 bet out and doubled, ending up with an 18. The dealer hit to 19, but mistakenly proceeded to pay my bet. I then waited for the other shoe to drop, because I knew it would shortly follow: "You have a 19!" And from where might that spot on and perfectly timed observation have come? Oh yes - from the lazy-eyed hag two seats over who had just cost me two hundred dollars, but who I'm sure savored that moment far more than winning one of the $25 bets she was making. :whip:

If you spot a witch who has a look that sours milk, teamed up with a Nigerian scammer, next time give em a miss. :cat:

21forme · Mar 31, 2009

Here's a classic I heard recently:
Young guy was betting chunky black at the table. Guy next to him, betting a single green had a soft 17 v. a dealer 5. He doubled and pulled a 4. Young guy loses after standing and dealer pulled another small card. He freaked out at the guy, saying he should have asked for advice "deferring to the big bet." PC came over and supported Mr. soft 17. Told the young guy, not only was doubling the correct play and the only smart way to play the hand, but everyone gets to play their own hand without interference from other players. PC also mentioned he would have lost whether or not the guy took a card. It was refreshing!

Automatic Monkey · Mar 31, 2009

Pelerus said:

Good move! You don't want to say "African" or anything along those lines, because you know what's coming next, accusing you of racism and all of that crap.

Just tell them that if they are betting their own money, they can play their hand any way they want, and so can you. Then I look at the dealer and tell him to deal, and once the cards start falling again the arguing usually stops.

Once in a while you'll have a run-in with a bad drunk or an emotionally disturbed person, then you have to use your judgment and possibly get away from the table, because a fist fight is unacceptably risky for an AP who is carrying a lot of cash, even if you win the fight. The chances of getting separated from your bankroll at the police station (or hospital) I would put at a bit higher than 13.5%.

Arguments While Playing BJ

New Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Banned

Well-Known Member

New Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

New Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Banned