Arrested for having "money eyes"

[daddybo]

Except that the war was fought because the confederates attempt to seceed was not legitimate. I'm amazed how many people claim much of what todays Federal government is doing is unconstitutional because it isn't mentioned in our constitution, but insist the South had the right to seceed even though it is no where to be found in the same document.
Even more amazingly, the grandchildren of these rebels and oath breakers now try to portray themselves as representing the "True America', whatever that is supposed to mean..

Here is a link that I think is a pretty good description of how it all started.

http://www.greatamericanhistory.net/causes.htm

It never ceases to amaze me how little most of the country understands the South. I have a cousin that was born and raised in NYC. We sit around and laugh at some of the things her friends say when she says she's going to visit.
(no animosity here... the Deep South IS a complex culture riddled with irony.)

A few myths busted here:

1. We really don't ever think about the War between the States except in passing jokes.
2. We don't have too many old buildings here... about 90% burned some time ago.
3. Very few own a Confederate Flag. (Though I do have a Nazi Flag... My Uncle said to keep it because the young fellas that had it didn't need it anymore.)
3. We don't have a funny accent --- you do.
4. We are less racist than most of the rest of the country.
5. WE love and will die sacrificially for Freedom.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Except that the war was fought because the confederates attempt to seceed was not legitimate. I'm amazed how many people claim much of what todays Federal government is doing is unconstitutional because it isn't mentioned in our constitution, but insist the South had the right to seceed even though it is no where to be found in the same document.
Even more amazingly, the grandchildren of these rebels and oath breakers now try to portray themselves as representing the "True America', whatever that is supposed to mean..

OK, if the Secession wasn't legitimate, what was the justification for the Federal government denying the Southern states their voting rights and representation in Congress during the so-called Reconstruction? If they remained states, that was flat-out illegal under the Constitution- no state may be denied representation in Congress.

What it comes down to is if the Secession was unconstitutional, so was the Reconstruction. Can't have it both ways.

 

[Blue Efficacy]

Here is a link that I think is a pretty good description of how it all started.

http://www.greatamericanhistory.net/causes.htm

It never ceases to amaze me how little most of the country understands the South. I have a cousin that was born and raised in NYC. We sit around and laugh at some of the things her friends say when she says she's going to visit.
(no animosity here... the Deep South IS a complex culture riddled with irony.)

A few myths busted here:

1. We really don't ever think about the War between the States except in passing jokes.
2. We don't have too many old buildings here... about 90% burned some time ago.
3. Very few own a Confederate Flag. (Though I do have a Nazi Flag... My Uncle said to keep it because the young fellas that had it didn't need it anymore.)
3. We don't have a funny accent --- you do.
4. We are less racist than most of the rest of the country.
5. WE love Freedom.

Don't all Americans love freedom? Seems like a pointless thing to say.

Except Southerners didn't like freedom for a certain race of people who they would publicly hang if they misbehaved.

Do you have any citations for the fact that the south is less racist than most of the country? Frankly, I do not believe it.

 

[daddybo]

OK, if the Secession wasn't legitimate, what was the justification for the Federal government denying the Southern states their voting rights and representation in Congress during the so-called Reconstruction? If they remained states, that was flat-out illegal under the Constitution- no state may be denied representation in Congress.

What it comes down to is if the Secession was unconstitutional, so was the Reconstruction. Can't have it both ways.

A little known fact... The KKK (it wasn't called that at the time) was actually created to protect the southern population from abusive Northern Reconstructionist. It was later co-opted by radicals and became the organization that is written about in today's revisionist history.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Don't all Americans love freedom? Seems like a pointless thing to say.

No, some support Obama.

Except Southerners didn't like freedom for a certain race of people who they would publicly hang if they misbehaved.

BULLSHIT! SOME Southerners didn't want blacks to be free, and guess what, same for some Northerners. The Klan did most of their work in the Midwest, in Union territory. There was always racism and discrimination in the North as well as the South, from ALL races. At least in the South white people would hire and do business with a free black man, unlike most in the North.

To be clear- I'm a Connecticut Yankee, as Yank as Jack Ellyat. And I know white people who would act horrified and give me a lecture if I tell a nigger joke, but admit they use tricks to avoid renting their apartments to blacks.

Do you have any citations for the fact that the south is less racist than most of the country? Frankly, I do not believe it.

The South has more black people than most of the country, with adjacent counties being entirely black or entirely white in some places, for historical reasons. People may have prejudices, as is normal for humans, but they tend to be tempered and balanced. Study after study has demonstrated that of all the races in the US, Caucasians are the least likely to harbor racist views, with Hispanics and Asians the most likely, probably because they are from countries where there is no history of racial equality or civil rights and such beliefs are not taboo.

 

[daddybo]

Don't all Americans love freedom? Seems like a pointless thing to say.

I don't think so.

Except Southerners didn't like freedom for a certain race of people who they would publicly hang if they misbehaved.

Actually, Few southerners owned slaves... you had to be wealthy to do that. Almost all of the slave trade was in New England and a large part of the North also owned slaves... It was legal you know.

About hanging folks ... I've never seen a public hanging... and have only heard of a few in all of history. I guess you think If some fringe group does something stupid... then everybody in the general geographic vicinity is like that. BTW.. I'm Irish... I don't dislike New Yorkers because they hung/beat/ abused us.

Do you have any citations for the fact that the south is less racist than most of the country? Frankly, I do not believe it.

I 'm not sure how you would quantify it in numbers... But I've traveled extensively.. and it sure appears we get along with each other better than most places I've been. You ought to visit sometime BE. We've been getting along down here for a long time.

 

[FLASH1296]

The only state to ever send an elected representative to congress was Indiana, where the KLAN tried but failed to hold sway [politically] in the 1920's.

I have done a fair bit of traveling in my time, and I think that Northern racism is more covert than Southern racism, but otherwise little difference exists.

I feel that overt racism is highly correlated to certain factors such as level of education and religiosity.

 

[Blue Efficacy]

No, some support Obama.

You may be an expert at AP, but you are clearly ignorant in other areas if you think supporting Obama is something one does if they don't like freedom.

Please explain how this is the case.

 

[Blue Efficacy]

I don't think so.



Actually, Few southerners owned slaves... you had to be wealthy to do that. Almost all of the slave trade was in New England and a large part of the North also owned slaves... It was legal you know.

About hanging folks ... I've never seen a public hanging... and have only heard of a few in all of history. I guess you think If some fringe group does something stupid... then everybody in the general geographic vicinity is like that. BTW.. I'm Irish... I don't dislike New Yorkers because they hung/beat/ abused us.



I 'm not sure how you would quantify it in numbers... But I've traveled extensively.. and it sure appears we get along with each other better than most places I've been. You ought to visit sometime BE. We've been getting along down here for a long time.

Okay, I'll admit some of what i said there was ill informed. It seems plausible that the North is equally as racist, but less overt about it. However, it seems a stretch to suggest the North is more racist than the South.

 

[daddybo]

Okay, I'll admit some of what i said there was ill informed. It seems plausible that the North is equally as racist, but less overt about it. However, it seems a stretch to suggest the North is more racist than the South.

It's my opinion the hidden racism in some parts of the country/world is much more pervasive than any overt or covert racism in the South. If somebody down here is racist... you will know it.. believe me. (I'm not speaking of only one race but all races and ethnicities).

I don't believe I accused the North of being more racist .. didn't mean to if I did. . Actually I've found the most racism in the Western half of the U.S.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

You may be an expert at AP, but you are clearly ignorant in other areas if you think supporting Obama is something one does if they don't like freedom.

Please explain how this is the case.

It's hyperbole, but if you are not a supporter of Obama he is unmistakeably associated with a loss of freedom. He is attempting to convert our country to a socialist economy, and socialism is incompatible with freedom. Too many people are willing to sacrifice their freedom for "a little something," and unfortunately their votes count just as much as mine.

Regarding racism in the South, isn't that just a prejudice too? Racial bias is a primitive but totally human emotion, found in all cultures races and regions. I believe we should as tolerant of natural racial biases as we are of races.

 

[shadroch]

Our government controls the schools,the police,the fire,the garbage removal,the highway departments, the radio waves, our rivers and coastlines, as well as providing pensions and medical services to about 25% of the population . This is considered capitalism. But try to fix a health care system that is out of control and that is socialism.

 

[UK-21]

I have no trouble believing that at all. I do have to say that when I was stationed in England in the early '70s it seemed like a lot of Brits were still fighting World War II. Is that still going on?

My first impression of England, even before the plane landed, was that the whole country was green & leafy!

No, I think WWII is now firmly consigned to the history books. Thirty five years later I would think that the majority of those who wouldn't let go (some for very good reasons indeed) have now passed on. The younger generations have little interest in keeping it alive I think, and why? - two world wars and one world cup says it all, doesn't it?

The whole country green and leafy? It might have been when the populus lived in caves! I'm afraid now that larger and larger segments are being concreted over in a government led move to build more housing to keep up with demand. They could always take steps to manage immigration to the UK of course (it's reckoned around another million migrants have settled in the UK in the last five years - all of whom need to be housed), but as our EU membership demands we leave the door open to anyone from any of the other 26 member states there's nothing they can do about it - short of handing back our membership card.

I live in quite a rural part of the UK, fifty miles from the nearest town with a casino, but the concrete sprawl is slowly creeping up to my doorstep. I fear the area won't be quite so green and leafy in future years.

Oh, and nice to see there's such agreement amongst some of the US forum members on the ACW/WBS.

 

[Blue Efficacy]

It's hyperbole, but if you are not a supporter of Obama he is unmistakeably associated with a loss of freedom. He is attempting to convert our country to a socialist economy, and socialism is incompatible with freedom. Too many people are willing to sacrifice their freedom for "a little something," and unfortunately their votes count just as much as mine.

Regarding racism in the South, isn't that just a prejudice too? Racial bias is a primitive but totally human emotion, found in all cultures races and regions. I believe we should as tolerant of natural racial biases as we are of races.

Socialism is not incompatible with freedom by any means. Many people have been mislead into thinking capitalism=freedom. Unfortunately, that is not the truth. China is currently very much a capitalist economy, yet they are far from free. On the other hand, democatic socialist societies such as Northern Europe are in many ways more free than we are.

If you think socialism is bad, to be consistent you should be crying out for fire and police departments to be disbanded. These are indeed socialism at work. Some things are more efficient when they are provided for the commons. Fire departments are one such thing. Healthcare is another. Is that socialism? You betcha. Does that threaten freedom? I think not. Unless you desire the freedom to not pay taxes in order to have people fight a fire should your house catch on fire at 4 am. But that would be downright silly.

Point is, socialism and liberty are two seperate things. One can have socialism and no liberty, one can have liberty without socialism. One can have no liberty without socialism, and yes, one can have liberty WITH socialism.

 

[daddybo]

Socialism is not incompatible with freedom by any means.

I would say that is correct in it's purest form. But Socialism is NOT compatible with Capitalism.

Many people have been mislead into thinking capitalism=freedom. Unfortunately, that is not the truth. China is currently very much a capitalist economy, yet they are far from free. On the other hand, democatic socialist societies such as Northern Europe are in many ways more free than we are.

I sort of agree. We have lost a lot of freedom since I have been alive. We have let the government take it away in the name of protection and security. Baa, Baa. We as a peolple need to take responsibility for ourselves... That my friend is Freedom

If you think socialism is bad, to be consistent you should be crying out for fire and police departments to be disbanded. These are indeed socialism at work. Some things are more efficient when they are provided for the commons. Fire departments are one such thing. Healthcare is another. Is that socialism? You betcha. Does that threaten freedom? I think not. Unless you desire the freedom to not pay taxes in order to have people fight a fire should your house catch on fire at 4 am. But that would be downright silly.

Disagree. Fire Police etc.. are handled on a state level (meaning 50 states), And are not mandates of the Federal Government. Actually they are mandates of capitalist insurers who offer the incentive of lower rate for available protections. It's not socialism.. because it is a free choice.

Heath Care is and should be the same way. Capitalism isn't perfect.. but it usually works itself out without government intervention.

IMHO.. The whole Health care thing at the government level is more about rescuing a mismanaged Medicare/Medicaid System that is bankrupting our government. An all inclusive national plan would bring tons of money and power to the Government and allow them to scrap a failing medicare and replace it with the new system. Then, in time, the government would just screw that up and we would have the same problem exponentially. A real fix for healthcare would include tort reform, reduced government intrusion and free market incentives to lower cost. The government and it's reps really don't care about us.. it cares about propagating itself, power and money.

Point is, socialism and liberty are two seperate things. One can have socialism and no liberty, one can have liberty without socialism. One can have no liberty without socialism, and yes, one can have liberty WITH socialism.

While this is true... Margaret Thatcher said it best "The problem with socialism is you eventually run out of other people's money." I don't know about you, but I really don't want them to run out of MY hard earned money. (or yours either for that matter)

 

[UK-21]

. . . On the other hand, democatic socialist societies such as Northern Europe are in many ways more free than we are.

Care to expand? I can't think of any socialist states left in Europe as, one by one, they have all toppled since 1989. There are countries that have always been regarded as tolerant and liberal and who have tended to pursue agendas of social equality and reform (Sweden and the Netherlands are two that come to mind), but to me that isn't the same thing as "socialist". The only "socialist" state I can think of is Belarus, where if one believes the political commentators, little has changed in the way the State manages all aspects of the economy, media, public services etc since the breakup of the USSR, and the administration pays lip service to the idea of a politically active opposition. A matter of interpretation perhaps?

But as I've said before, anyone who thinks that the US has a socialist administration at present needs to travel outside of the US more (and not just care of the Pentagon).

 

[daddybo]

Care to expand? I can't think of any socialist states left in Europe as, one by one, they have all toppled since 1989. There are countries that have always been regarded as tolerant and liberal and who have tended to pursue agendas of social equality and reform (Sweden and the Netherlands are two that come to mind), but to me that isn't the same thing as "socialist". The only "socialist" state I can think of is Belarus, where if one believes the political commentators, little has changed in the way the State manages all aspects of the economy, media, public services etc since the breakup of the USSR, and the administration pays lip service to the idea of a politically active opposition. A matter of interpretation perhaps?

But as I've said before, anyone who thinks that the US has a socialist administration at present needs to travel outside of the US more (and not just care of the Pentagon).

Good Post... And you are correct in saying we don't have a Socialist Administration at present.... and I hope we are not going to let it become one!

 

[UK-21]

You'll never have one as long as there's a hole in the president's ar$e (whoever that happens to be) and your constitution continues to allow it's citizens the right to bear arms. :laugh:

 

[Automatic Monkey]

You'll never have one as long as there's a hole in the president's ar$e (whoever that happens to be) and your constitution continues to allow it's citizens the right to bear arms. :laugh:

That's right. We live in a world that is ultimately governed by physical force, and the surest way to ensure power is distributed among the people is for the ability to apply force to be distributed among the people. An imperfect system for sure, but better than the alternatives.

 

[Katweezel]

Government is an ass

That's right. We live in a world that is ultimately governed by physical force, and the surest way to ensure power is distributed among the people is for the ability to apply force to be distributed among the people. An imperfect system for sure, but better than the alternatives.

Yep, Australia has an imperfect system too, like all the others. Here is a good example of how governments are inept, inefficient and incompetent. Somebody here died and months passed and the (government-owned) telephone company began sending letters about the unpaid amount owing: ONE CENT. This matter worked its way through various normal bureaucratic channels and the dead guy's estate got sued for ... ONE CENT.

Yep, the Federal government in this country cannot manage anything efficiently much, let alone a government health-care system. How do the poms manage to run one in the UK, Newb?