Attention: Mr Ex-Griffinman

kewljason

Well-Known Member
#1
I will start by offering you a belated welcome to the site and community. When you first popped up on the site 2 weeks ago, I like many members, was very skeptical of your claims, especially considering the timing of your arrival coincided with a huge sudden influx of new members and poster, which I am still unsure about. To be honest, like Mr Bo, am not completely convinced of your authenticity, but you have demonstrated a certain degree of knowledge in the field you speak of and frankly I have already benefited by some of your thoughts.

It also occurred to me that engaging in too much discussion with you, especially in detail as I tend to do, could have negative ramifications. From the resume you spoke of, you have bounced around all over the place on both sides of the 'fence'. Who knows when and where you could turn up next. :eek:

But I do have a couple topics that I would like to hear your thoughts on, if you would be so generous.

First, you mentioned the use of cover several times to throw surveillance off. A practice I don't engage in much, as I am of the belief that cover, eats up to much of an already thin advantage margin and quite frankly it's benefits are limited and short-lived. Basically I don't think it buys that much. I have adopted a style to try to fly under the radar, as you say, by employing 4 basic moves. 1.) Playing mostly unrated. 2.) Playing very short sessions, 30-40 minutes tops, but usually less due to wong out of negative counts style. 3.) Keeping max bets below $500 threshold. 4.) Always leaving at the shuffle after any shoe that had higher wagers, so there is little record of reducing wagers, only increasing. Can you tell me your opinion of such a strategy, and keep in mind I am concerned mostly with Las Vegas and the strip casinos that can handle a $400 range max bet with out even thinking twice or taking notice.

The second issue, is I would like to hear your opinion of, and any info that you could share about the OSN.

Thank you for your time and participation on the site.
 

The Chaperone

Well-Known Member
#2
FTR I'm still highly suspicious. Case in point, was his insistance that SIN was responsible for cyclist's flyer. You cannot make such a statement without knowing the casinos that were involved, or at the very least the jurisdiction. Maybe in 2001, SIN would have been the likely culprit. In 2011, SIN's involvement is a big underdog.
 

moo321

Well-Known Member
#3
We don't know if he worked at Griffin, but the guy can obviously tell his ass from a hole in the ground, and has worked for casinos.
 
#5
kewljason said:
I will start by offering you a belated welcome to the site and community. When you first popped up on the site 2 weeks ago, I like many members, was very skeptical of your claims, especially considering the timing of your arrival coincided with a huge sudden influx of new members and poster, which I am still unsure about. To be honest, like Mr Bo, am not completely convinced of your authenticity, but you have demonstrated a certain degree of knowledge in the field you speak of and frankly I have already benefited by some of your thoughts.

It also occurred to me that engaging in too much discussion with you, especially in detail as I tend to do, could have negative ramifications. From the resume you spoke of, you have bounced around all over the place on both sides of the 'fence'. Who knows when and where you could turn up next. :eek:

But I do have a couple topics that I would like to hear your thoughts on, if you would be so generous.

First, you mentioned the use of cover several times to throw surveillance off. A practice I don't engage in much, as I am of the belief that cover, eats up to much of an already thin advantage margin and quite frankly it's benefits are limited and short-lived. Basically I don't think it buys that much. I have adopted a style to try to fly under the radar, as you say, by employing 4 basic moves. 1.) Playing mostly unrated. 2.) Playing very short sessions, 30-40 minutes tops, but usually less due to wong out of negative counts style. 3.) Keeping max bets below $500 threshold. 4.) Always leaving at the shuffle after any shoe that had higher wagers, so there is little record of reducing wagers, only increasing. Can you tell me your opinion of such a strategy, and keep in mind I am concerned mostly with Las Vegas and the strip casinos that can handle a $400 range max bet with out even thinking twice or taking notice.

The second issue, is I would like to hear your opinion of, and any info that you could share about the OSN.

Thank you for your time and participation on the site.
First of all cover is easy and it works at disguising your blackjack skills. The problem is that cover is not cheap because it reduces your advantage over the house. In this day and age, with penetration deteriorating and more and more casinos switching to "Dealer Hits Soft 17", the games are getting more difficult to beat. Use too much cover, and you will not need it because you will be playing at a disadvantage (and the casino will be happy to let you play). For the vast majority of players, cover strategy is not cost-effective. In you case, having short sessions, playing unrated and keeping your bet spread down will keep you under the radar in the casinos you want to play at...Vegas strip Mega stores. I don't think you will have a problem.

For others making Bad Plays is the way to go – An example of some of the top bad plays are: taking insurance on 20, taking even money on blackjack, standing on the soft doubles (such as A7) vs. 6, standing on the 12 vs. 2 and 3 (when the count warrants hitting). The theory is that the pit will evaluate your play and determine you must not be counting cards because of the bad play and, therefore, gives you the long-term free pass.

Schmoozing with the pit and tipping the boys. The theory is that if you are big better and establish a good rapport with the pit crew, that they will not suspect you of counting or give you the benefit of the doubt. Do you think that schmoozing is going to do any good when surveillance calls and says they have confirmed you are an advantage player? Do not count it. Worse yet, you will be much less memorable than if you play and make no attempt to be buddies with the dealers and pit crews. Not only is schmoozing not effective, but it will make it harder for you to go back to the scene of the crime 6-12 months after being backed off the first time. This is a bad idea, actually a terrible idea.

And finally, there's playing slot machines, craps or other games that an advantage player would not play. This may help your longevity. The problem is how much this cover play costs you in expected value. Say you plan a 3 day trip to Vegas and plan 25 hours of blackjack with an expected value of $50.00/hour. Your expected win is $1,500. On the other hand, say you log in 24 hours of blackjack but also put in 6 hours of slot machine play (that would be torture to me), craps, or other game with a house advantage as cover. Assuming your expected loss rate on the non-BJ game is a modest $50/hour, your expected win rate has been reduced to $900. This cover cuts your win rate almost in half. but I have seen counters do it. and as far as I was concerned they could play all day.

And as for you last question...I am not familiar with the acronym OSN

Keep on playing
EXGM
 
#6
moo321 said:
We don't know if he worked at Griffin, but the guy can obviously tell his ass from a hole in the ground, and has worked for casinos.
Thanks moo, I was in Italy and had to literally put my ass to a hole in the ground...Awkward

EXGM
 
#7
The Chaperone said:
FTR I'm still highly suspicious. Case in point, was his insistance that SIN was responsible for cyclist's flyer. You cannot make such a statement without knowing the casinos that were involved, or at the very least the jurisdiction. Maybe in 2001, SIN would have been the likely culprit. In 2011, SIN's involvement is a big underdog.
I didn't insist that it was SIN, But there is a very good chance since griffin can't work that fast and additionally SIN is widely subscribed to these days, It is a force to be dealt with. In 2001 SIN had just become digital, allowing casino's to send your photo instantly to as many other casino's that they wanted to ( a far cry from a fax group list) and today the same system is used,modified a bit and subscribed by alot more casino's because it's cheaper than Griffin.

EXGM
 

aslan

Well-Known Member
#8
zengrifter said:
I will take exGriffin at his word. A wonderful new addition to our little soiree! zg
How do we know exgriffinman is not you, zg, pulling our AP leg? A:laugh:Z
 

aslan

Well-Known Member
#9
exgriffinman said:
I didn't insist that it was SIN, But there is a very good chance since griffin can't work that fast and additionally SIN is widely subscribed to these days, It is a force to be dealt with. In 2001 SIN had just become digital, allowing casino's to send your photo instantly to as many other casino's that they wanted to ( a far cry from a fax group list) and today the same system is used,modified a bit and subscribed by alot more casino's because it's cheaper than Griffin.

EXGM
Your signature (Will Rogers quote) goes about 90% toward proving your authenticity. :laugh: Anyway, it makes you likable.

Did you say you are a card counter? Would you like to talk about some of your counting experiences?
 
#11
Never heard of OSN

exgriffinman said:
And as for you last question...I am not familiar with the acronym OSN
Jason:
You have heard of OSN, I have heard of OSN, but this guy hasn't heard of OSN.
Isn't that kind of like Macy's never heard of Gimbel's, or Steve Wynn never heard of the Venetian.

Jay Cobbson

P.S. Be careful of those scorpians ;)
 

The Chaperone

Well-Known Member
#12
b jay cobbson said:
Jason:
You have heard of OSN, I have heard of OSN, but this guy hasn't heard of OSN.
Isn't that kind of like Macy's never heard of Gimbel's, or Steve Wynn never heard of the Venetian.

Jay Cobbson

P.S. Be careful of those scorpians ;)
Could not agree more. This is pretty much the same point I had in my post earlier in this thread.
 

Machinist

Well-Known Member
#13
I just found out about OSN 5 months ago. Then a friend got on their page, he even sent m a nice pic they had of him!!! :eek: OSN is alive and well. Looks like they do go out quite a bit from their home area also....

Machinist
 
#14
b jay cobbson said:
You have heard of OSN, I have heard of OSN, but this guy hasn't heard of OSN. Isn't that kind of like Macy's never heard of Gimbel's, or Steve Wynn never heard of the Venetian.
No, its more like Bellagio never heard of Podunk Card Room. zg

The Oregon Surveillance Network is a collaboration of nine Oregon
based casinos dedicated to sharing information and assisting industry growth.
http://www.oregonsurveillancenetwork.com/
 

kewljason

Well-Known Member
#15
b jay cobbson said:
Jason:
You have heard of OSN, I have heard of OSN, but this guy hasn't heard of OSN.
Isn't that kind of like Macy's never heard of Gimbel's, or Steve Wynn never heard of the Venetian.

Jay Cobbson

P.S. Be careful of those scorpians ;)
Well, Mr Cobb, He did indicate that his involvement with Griffin was some time ago. He did list several other employment stints in the industry. I don't know the time frame for those. If any were fairly recent, one would expect him to have at least heard of OSN, but perhaps they were in the distant past as well. :confused: I don't think it disqualifies him, but I was skeptical at the start, which has become my nature recently, :rolleyes: and remain skeptical.

About the scorpions: Although I read that they can climb straight up walls, I am hoping I am safer, being on a higher floor of the building. Hopefully they can find what they are looking for on the ground floor and are afraid of heights. :laugh:
 

Sucker

Well-Known Member
#17
I could care less whether or not the man has worked for Griffin. If it's ZG or someone else posting as an alternate ego, I could care less.

ExGriffinman has so far posted nothing but useful information, which is more than I can say for a great MANY of the contributors to this site.

When I first became a member here, I was ALSO met with skepticism, but NOTHING like THIS! Why not just sit back & peruse the man's contributions? EVERYTHING we read here (and EVERYWHERE, for that matter) should be taken with a grain of salt anyway! :(
 

21forme

Well-Known Member
#19
kewljason said:
Well, Mr Cobb, He did indicate that his involvement with Griffin was some time ago.
Until recently OSN was fairly regional (hence the O :grin: ) and not nationwide, as it is now. I tend to believe EGM. If he was a poser, he would certainly not admit to not knowing of OSN and doing a simple Google search on "OSN casino" educates oneself quickly.
 

Gamblor

Well-Known Member
#20
Hey ExGrif, your advice on making wrong moves, tipping/shmoozing, and playing other games is sound advice for LV or AC, where you can move from casino to casino in short sessions (which is the best cover).

But if your, lets say playing at a local casino 20+ hours a week like I do, I do think you need to tip a bit ($1-$2 is an hour not a big hit) and it helps to have dealers and PC like you or feel sympathetic to you - a fair number of benefits in that. So a little shmoozing is in order.

I personally never make a wrong bet for cover, of course absolutely not necessary unless you play in the HL room. Just playing your indices correctly throws off most PC. As for playing other games, of course no one should play 25% of their time on a -EV game, but I would theorize that some very minimum amount of play would act as some cover, no?
 
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