Backed off, backed out, back roomed

bj bob

bj bob

Well-Known Member
#1
#1
While we're on the subject of baring our souls to the world , I was wondering how many of you estute gentlemen have been backed off, and how many times ? (if you still keep count). How many have been asked to leave the property (backed out) and finally, for those wretched few among us, how many have been backed roomed? or is that pretty much a thing of the past?
Please don't get any more specific then necessary. I don't want to be responsible for any missing limbs , scalpings , bail etc. I do however, look forward to some colorful imagery.
 
P

Preston

Well-Known Member
#3
#3
I was asked to leave only once. It really was much less eventful than I thought it would be.

Now the times I've been kicked out for cursing out other players has been a little more interesting...
 
ihate17

ihate17

Well-Known Member
#4
#4
A bit here and there

I do not remember how many times I have been backed off, probably about 20 times, several times in the same place months or years after the first one.

I am barred from one casino but it was extended to their sister properties. I have no problem mentioning who, it was Harrah's. Harrah's tossed me from my room, early AM, and I was shoved in my room by security (no cameras in the room). They insisted on coming into the room while I packed under their excuse that I might wreck something. Also, while in public areas they called me a cheat and questioned my family history all in an attempt to perhaps have me throw a punch and get me arrested.

Nearly 30 years ago, I was beaten and robbed by casino employees (I had seen them working inside several times) in the parking lot of Walker Hill Resort, in Seoul Korea after two straight nights of large wins. Walker Hill was a Sheraton at that time but the casino was probably a local mob operation. The police had no real interest and Korea in those days was very different than Korea is today.

I have never had the displeasure of visiting the so called backroom.

ihate17
 
A

Arctapodema

Active Member
#6
#6
I guess ive been pretty lucky so far...the closest thing to trouble ive had was constant attention from 3 pit bosses hovering over me after a couple good shoes and a $400 profit, and then another player remarking "wow, youre really good, you must be a card counter!" Trying to shake that off while doubling a 8 unit bet in a very positive count was a little nerve-racking. I usually dont fluctuate my bets that much tho, that might be part of it.
 
bj bob

bj bob

Well-Known Member
#8
#8
ihate17 said:
I do not remember how many times I have been backed off, probably about 20 times, several times in the same place months or years after the first one.

I am barred from one casino but it was extended to their sister properties. I have no problem mentioning who, it was Harrah's. Harrah's tossed me from my room, early AM, and I was shoved in my room by security (no cameras in the room). They insisted on coming into the room while I packed under their excuse that I might wreck something. Also, while in public areas they called me a cheat and questioned my family history all in an attempt to perhaps have me throw a punch and get me arrested.

I have never had the displeasure of visiting the so called backroom.

ihate17
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Ouch! That's scary. Interesting tactic, though...pushing you back into your room where there's no EYE. How long ago did this happen and did they get your picture and/ or ID? Have you since try to go back and test the waters?
 
R

Requiem

Member
#9
#9
isn't true they can't force you to go to the backroom? that you're just supposed to walk away if that situation arises?

also they do let you cash your winnings in don't they?
 
C

Cass

Well-Known Member
#10
#10
bj bob said:
While we're on the subject of baring our souls to the world , I was wondering how many of you estute gentlemen have been backed off, and how many times ? (if you still keep count). How many have been asked to leave the property (backed out) and finally, for those wretched few among us, how many have been backed roomed? or is that pretty much a thing of the past?
Please don't get any more specific then necessary. I don't want to be responsible for any missing limbs , scalpings , bail etc. I do however, look forward to some colorful imagery.
Click to expand...
I'm flat betted at bellagio, and mirage. Im possibly screwed at all MGM properties not sure. Limited to a 1-2 spread at one indian casino, not allowed on table games at two others, and told to leave at another. This was all last year. I pretty much burned out all my local games worth driving to. That is what I get for playing long sessions, but when you have to travel a long way to get to casinos i dont really see another option. I will brag though my profits gambling last year almost touched six figures with about half of it coming from straight card counting and the other half exploiting promos so I guess it was worth it. I have played very little this year about 2 hours total and im down 2K. My goal for 07 is just to be in the black!
 
B

bluewhale

Well-Known Member
#11
#11
picture

in the MIT movie, i saw them take simon into the back room and take a picutre of him. are they actually allowed to do that??

i wouldn't go, i'd just pick up my chips and leave. if they try to force me, they'd be facing a law suit.
 
V

vermontconnect

New Member
#12
#12
Arctapodema said:
I guess ive been pretty lucky so far...the closest thing to trouble ive had was constant attention from 3 pit bosses hovering over me after a couple good shoes and a $400 profit, and then another player remarking "wow, youre really good, you must be a card counter!" Trying to shake that off while doubling a 8 unit bet in a very positive count was a little nerve-racking. I usually dont fluctuate my bets that much tho, that might be part of it.
Click to expand...
Did you at least shoot the "Wow, you must be a card counter!" guy a nasty look? If I had been in that situation I wouldn't have cared about the pit bosses at all by that point :)
 
K

Kasi

Well-Known Member
#13
#13
bluewhale said:
i wouldn't go, i'd just pick up my chips and leave. if they try to force me, they'd be facing a law suit.
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I don't know whether they're "allowed to" or not but they'll do whatever they want. The police will back up security and the courts will back up police. The control agents are immune from prosecution.

So, if you're not REALLY prepared to sue them for the next 5 years, I'd be real careful.

"John Day died defending his right-of-way
He was just as right as the day is long
But he's just as dead as if he were wrong."

Run a search on James Grosjean's lawsuit to get an idea of what goes on. That's probably the first happy ending in a decade.

But, you know, the casinos are changing their "policy manuals" if that makes you feel better. So, now, no back-rooming without "probable cause". Don't worry, if they don't have any, they'll make it up later.

And aren't security guards allowed to carry guns now?
 
ihate17

ihate17

Well-Known Member
#14
#14
No big deal

EasyRhino said:
You're barred from all Harrah's, everywhere?

That's like half of the casinos.
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I still sneak into the Harrah's properties where I know there are dealers who flash. Other than weak dealers, considering the quality of the game they offer, Harrah's is like the half of all casinos that I would not be playing at anyway. Going in unrated, holecarding for less than an hour and out the door is not a problem and if they dealer I am looking for is not there, changed shifts or something, I will ask a dealer.

I probably told the story on this board. After being tossed from Harrah's, a few months later I took them up on a mailer for a free tournament entry and three nights. Had to hand a suit my invite and they let me stay but I was not allowed to play table games (my crime was holecarding). Question I did not ask, if that included the big wheel, roullette and craps?
Anyway, within a week of my return from Vegas, I received a certified letter barring me from all HET property.
(Another real stupid question) At that time I actually also owned some Harrah's stock. Did that mean that I could not enter their exec offices and can they trespass a very minor owner?

ihate17
 
ihate17

ihate17

Well-Known Member
#15
#15
Happened about five years ago.

bj bob said:
Ouch! That's scary. Interesting tactic, though...pushing you back into your room where there's no EYE. How long ago did this happen and did they get your picture and/ or ID? Have you since try to go back and test the waters?
Click to expand...
I am sure they have my photo and yes I do go back (no players card)
 
ihate17

ihate17

Well-Known Member
#16
#16
Not allowed but they do

bluewhale said:
in the MIT movie, i saw them take simon into the back room and take a picutre of him. are they actually allowed to do that??

i wouldn't go, i'd just pick up my chips and leave. if they try to force me, they'd be facing a law suit.
Click to expand...
The backroom I believe is for criminals and I believe some casinos actually have a holding cell. All they have to do, just as in the Russo/Grosjean case, is say you commited a crime. If it is a gambling crime, Gaming is the casinos rubber stamp, if it is another type of crime, then it is Metro. The thing is they work together with the casinos.
So you can be arrested, accusations can be made, and tapes can be lost. You life can be miserable between casino security, Gaming or Metro. What generally happens is that the DA's know it is BS (not basic strategy) and let you go.

I do think that the casinos have taken note that they have lost a few court cases, being sued for abusing customers, so instances of this kind of been fewer, but it still happens. The problem is casino security has untrained wannabee cops, some of who go power hungry. Combine that with Gaming working together with these people and being in the pocket of casinos, it makes a dangerous combo.

ihate17
 
Automatic Monkey

Automatic Monkey

Banned
#17
#17
ihate17 said:
... At that time I actually also owned some Harrah's stock. Did that mean that I could not enter their exec offices and can they trespass a very minor owner?
Click to expand...
Not at a stockholders' meeting, because no common stockholder can be treated differently than any other (except for specifically defined insiders.) But stockholders' meetings are usually at a conference center, not corporate offices. A stockholder has no more rights to enter or dispose of corporate property than any other member of the public so your stock doesn't affect your barring.

If you owned enough stock to be a board member that would probably buy you VIP treatment at the properties and make you immune from heat. Now that's an idea with some potential! Hey what do they do if some bigshot like a local politician or a police official also happens to be an AP. I'm guessing that he would slide, especially in the smaller places that always have something to hide.
 
bj bob

bj bob

Well-Known Member
#18
#18
Backroom- Indian style?

bluewhale said:
in the MIT movie, i saw them take simon into the back room and take a picutre of him. are they actually allowed to do that??

i wouldn't go, i'd just pick up my chips and leave. if they try to force me, they'd be facing a law suit.
Click to expand...
I've read somewhere that the Indian casinos have more flexability than do "public" establishments. Do those folks use more backroom tactics than the others or do they simply favor the $3000 parking ticket type tricks?
I guess their jurisdictional protocol is in that "grey" area.
 
A

Arctapodema

Active Member
#19
#19
Haha, no, i was worried. Ive never really had attention from the pit, so the majority of them watching my play was already scary, especially with big bets. I laughed off the remark, but once the heat died down, i gave the guy a "im gonna bitch slap you if you ever try that again" look
 
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