So I am fairly new to the counting arena. I know my basic hi-lo, and am reading through Blackbelt in Blackjack right now. I am going to use the Hi-Lo lite system outlined. That is besides the point of this post. I have two books that I am using to outline my quest (Blackbelt and Blueprint). I also have done quite a bit of reading on the internet (Wizard of Odds and Wiki; I know not the best resources). So I want to know why do the online sites say to Double 11 vs A, Double A,7 vs 2, and Double A,8 vs 6, in a Dealer Hits Soft 17, 4+ Deck game, when neither of books report that. Some feedback would be great. And which do you use?
Basic Strategy
- Thread starter PsychoStar
- Start date
You can trust the Blackjack Basic Strategy Engine here.
Your specific questions:
11vA: Double in any H17 game, and also in S17 games with 1 or 2 decks.
(Don't double 11vA in no-peek games though.)
A7v2: Double in H17 games except not in single deck.
A8v6: Double in H17 games and also S17 1-deck games.
Your specific questions:
11vA: Double in any H17 game, and also in S17 games with 1 or 2 decks.
(Don't double 11vA in no-peek games though.)
A7v2: Double in H17 games except not in single deck.
A8v6: Double in H17 games and also S17 1-deck games.
I been to a national Park but but have never played single deck blackjack. What does that mean ? Is this normal or is this out of the bell curve ? Since I been to a national park would that make me a natural for single deck BJ ? What is it that I am missing in this experience ? Is it something that all should experience before they die ?
What I meant was single deck BJ is something which is inaccessible to most of the members of this forum and thus has become an oddity rather than the norm which it once was. You must remember that the game of Blackjack was developed and played for many years with one deck. It wasn't until Thorpe that the very concept of a shoe was pondered and the subsequent greed and paranoia of the gaming industry brought about the shoe craze as we have it today.
Single deck provides a level of intensity which cannot be approached by any shoe game Just imagine the first 5-6 cards dealt off the top of a deck are low, with no Aces! The RC and TC sky rocket immediately and thus the rush!
I recently had the experience (in an unnamed house in Northern Nev.) where the dealer had been called back in off a double shift after 4 hours of sleep and began to lose the round-count. Twice she dealt though the whole deck and several more times came damed close. I got so pumped I almost called the PB over to bring me a box of Depends. This is an example of the "experience" I was referring to and it's a shame that many of you out there haven't enjoyed it.
There are several heavy hitters here on the forum who don't think twice about hopping a plane coast-to-coast to exploit a deeply (or sloppily) dealt SD game. It's worth it for both the thrill and the EV.
And thus the analogy. Less than 10% of the American population has experienced a national park and I would venture to say that about that same percentage of BJ players has had the experience of playing a 3:2 SD game.
Single deck provides a level of intensity which cannot be approached by any shoe game Just imagine the first 5-6 cards dealt off the top of a deck are low, with no Aces! The RC and TC sky rocket immediately and thus the rush!
I recently had the experience (in an unnamed house in Northern Nev.) where the dealer had been called back in off a double shift after 4 hours of sleep and began to lose the round-count. Twice she dealt though the whole deck and several more times came damed close. I got so pumped I almost called the PB over to bring me a box of Depends. This is an example of the "experience" I was referring to and it's a shame that many of you out there haven't enjoyed it.
There are several heavy hitters here on the forum who don't think twice about hopping a plane coast-to-coast to exploit a deeply (or sloppily) dealt SD game. It's worth it for both the thrill and the EV.
And thus the analogy. Less than 10% of the American population has experienced a national park and I would venture to say that about that same percentage of BJ players has had the experience of playing a 3:2 SD game.
He's back telling you to lose while you sleep
Everyone on this sight is well aware that basic strategy is a beggining place but a LOSING STRATEGY, where the longer you play the more you will lose, so why would anyone buy your product?
At least post where it belongs, the Voodoo board.
ihate17
Everyone on this sight is well aware that basic strategy is a beggining place but a LOSING STRATEGY, where the longer you play the more you will lose, so why would anyone buy your product?
At least post where it belongs, the Voodoo board.
ihate17
Last edited by a moderator:
Ihate17...
I am aware that basic strategy is long term negative since it lowers the house expectation to 0.5%.
However the casino I go to uses 5 decks and continuous shuffling after every hand. This makes counting useless.
I do find that just using basic strategy creates rather big swings in either direction up to 50%.
The key and what my play is for live games is:
Limit the buy in that on negative swings you only lose x but stand a chance to win 100 x.
when you reach 3 x remove your original x so you cant lose or make it 2x and carry on playing till you make a heck of a lot of lose the other x, that way you still doubled your money.
Does anyone else have any other casino methods for beating BJ big???
also i prefer just me against the dealer or one other player who knows BS. hate tables with more than one other player...
it takes much longer and most of them are noobs who just draw and hit on anything!
I am aware that basic strategy is long term negative since it lowers the house expectation to 0.5%.
However the casino I go to uses 5 decks and continuous shuffling after every hand. This makes counting useless.
I do find that just using basic strategy creates rather big swings in either direction up to 50%.
The key and what my play is for live games is:
Limit the buy in that on negative swings you only lose x but stand a chance to win 100 x.
when you reach 3 x remove your original x so you cant lose or make it 2x and carry on playing till you make a heck of a lot of lose the other x, that way you still doubled your money.
Does anyone else have any other casino methods for beating BJ big???
also i prefer just me against the dealer or one other player who knows BS. hate tables with more than one other player...
it takes much longer and most of them are noobs who just draw and hit on anything!
Your method over time
Your method over time will prove just as ineffective or effective as flat betting against the CSM machine. Since you have no control over those times you go up 3X or down 10X and you will lose more hands than you win in blackjack so your loss streaks will be a little bigger than your win streaks.
What you are doing though is perhaps giving yourself a little more fun, where flat betting can be booring and increasing some session variance, so your wins/losses may fall into a greater range.
But what you have is no way of beating blackjack. Without math knowledge (counting) card knowledge (holecarding) or slug tacking, in other words playing an almost new shoe every single hand, dealt by a machine and not having any other advantage method, bet juggling will never over come the house edge over time.
ihate17
Your method over time will prove just as ineffective or effective as flat betting against the CSM machine. Since you have no control over those times you go up 3X or down 10X and you will lose more hands than you win in blackjack so your loss streaks will be a little bigger than your win streaks.
What you are doing though is perhaps giving yourself a little more fun, where flat betting can be booring and increasing some session variance, so your wins/losses may fall into a greater range.
But what you have is no way of beating blackjack. Without math knowledge (counting) card knowledge (holecarding) or slug tacking, in other words playing an almost new shoe every single hand, dealt by a machine and not having any other advantage method, bet juggling will never over come the house edge over time.
ihate17
Hmmm...I see what youre saying because the house still has a minimal edge so in the long run i will lose.
My only argument is that i limit my buyin to 200 per casino visit.
Over 8 casino visits spread over a month so far
I win/lose about an even amount of the time 50% the only difference is when i lose i lose 200 but when i win i win 600-1200 or more.
This is a slow grind up but I figure this strategy can work and as my bankroll grow ill increase my buy in per casino visit.
think this is negative still in the long run?
and also...they reshuffle after every hand. It may not be a complete reshuffle since i do not really know how the shoe and shuffle machine work.
Is counting then still possible???
thanks
My only argument is that i limit my buyin to 200 per casino visit.
Over 8 casino visits spread over a month so far
I win/lose about an even amount of the time 50% the only difference is when i lose i lose 200 but when i win i win 600-1200 or more.
This is a slow grind up but I figure this strategy can work and as my bankroll grow ill increase my buy in per casino visit.
think this is negative still in the long run?
and also...they reshuffle after every hand. It may not be a complete reshuffle since i do not really know how the shoe and shuffle machine work.
Is counting then still possible???
thanks
Au contraire, if you are playing any negative expectation game such as BS with a CSM, your best strategy is to slow the game down as much as possible. You want that -.05% to take as long as possible to work against you. So, you want a full table with a slow dealer while making sure you are being rated for comps. Slowing the pace down, taking some phantom cell phone calls and an occasional potty break while the comp clock is ticking will narrow your neg, EV in the long run and extend your BR's life span.
No math reason to expect to get up so many sessions
The beauty of blackjack is that variance can be positive. There is no reason to expect to get up as much as you have in so many sessions, there is no math to back it up. Enjoy your good fortune.
The one thing you have done is cut your variance some by limiting your loses during a session but life is just one big session. Now if you do not limit your winning sessions you will eventually find yourself with many small losing sessions and a few big sessions that will almost, but not quite, make up for the losing ones.
You will also walk into a casino several times, if you play long enough, and lose your first 10-20 hands on what might have been a session where you were a big winner at the end, there is no way of telling. Personally, I have had 4 times in my life where I lost over 20 hands in a row and in three of these sessions I ended winning.
Playing the game you are playing, you are best off at a full table. The skill of the other players has no overall effect long run on your results and if flat betting is booring and unenjoyable then play with your bets some. Bankroll management is good but in a different way than for a counter because your bankroll will continue to decline over time, so loss limits are not what I am contending with you about. It is the belief that your method will win, sorry but it is really material for the voodoo board.
ihate17
The beauty of blackjack is that variance can be positive. There is no reason to expect to get up as much as you have in so many sessions, there is no math to back it up. Enjoy your good fortune.
The one thing you have done is cut your variance some by limiting your loses during a session but life is just one big session. Now if you do not limit your winning sessions you will eventually find yourself with many small losing sessions and a few big sessions that will almost, but not quite, make up for the losing ones.
You will also walk into a casino several times, if you play long enough, and lose your first 10-20 hands on what might have been a session where you were a big winner at the end, there is no way of telling. Personally, I have had 4 times in my life where I lost over 20 hands in a row and in three of these sessions I ended winning.
Playing the game you are playing, you are best off at a full table. The skill of the other players has no overall effect long run on your results and if flat betting is booring and unenjoyable then play with your bets some. Bankroll management is good but in a different way than for a counter because your bankroll will continue to decline over time, so loss limits are not what I am contending with you about. It is the belief that your method will win, sorry but it is really material for the voodoo board.
ihate17
Ihate17... thank you for your feedback
OK...it makes sense my play will not win in the long term.
However I do want to win in the long term. so now..what to do.
If you dont mind...how do you play that you win in the long term?
Find old small casinos still using older methods where an advantage is still possible for the player?
From what ive read, counting, shuffletracking are the only ways to beat bj.
does anyone on this forum still make big money consistenly or a positive ev with bj? Im sure there are quite a few?
OK...it makes sense my play will not win in the long term.
However I do want to win in the long term. so now..what to do.
If you dont mind...how do you play that you win in the long term?
Find old small casinos still using older methods where an advantage is still possible for the player?
From what ive read, counting, shuffletracking are the only ways to beat bj.
does anyone on this forum still make big money consistenly or a positive ev with bj? Im sure there are quite a few?
I guess you are not located in the U.S.
In the U.S. there are few casinos that only use continuous shuffle machines and none of the new big ones only use them at all. Here if you only use CSM's you will have absolutely no big players, they will all go to other casinos even if they are not cardcounters. So I guess you are located elsewhere.
How do I play? I have never gotten into shuffletracking though I do understand it. I count and I hole card and find other advantages as they present themselves.
Blackjack, depending upon the rules, has a mathematical edge for the casino. The majority of that edge comes from the most important rule in the game; if you bust then the dealer busts, you lose. Most people consider playable games those with house edges of .5% or less but often things such as penetration are more important to a counter than a minor rule difference.
So knowing the overall composition of the cards yet to be dealt is where by raising ones bets and changing their play the counter can not only overcome the house edge but give himself a bigger edge. The trouble with the CSM game is you will never have enough information about the remaining cards to make any kind of significant betting or play decision.
Now if there are any casinos in your area with ASM's (automatic shuffling machines) where a whole shoe is being shuffled while another whole shoe is being played. You can count against these as if they were hand shuffled, you just can not shuffle track.
ihate17
polypoop said:
Ihate17... thank you for your feedback
OK...it makes sense my play will not win in the long term.
However I do want to win in the long term. so now..what to do.
If you dont mind...how do you play that you win in the long term?
Find old small casinos still using older methods where an advantage is still possible for the player?
From what ive read, counting, shuffletracking are the only ways to beat bj.
does anyone on this forum still make big money consistenly or a positive ev with bj? Im sure there are quite a few?
OK...it makes sense my play will not win in the long term.
However I do want to win in the long term. so now..what to do.
If you dont mind...how do you play that you win in the long term?
Find old small casinos still using older methods where an advantage is still possible for the player?
From what ive read, counting, shuffletracking are the only ways to beat bj.
does anyone on this forum still make big money consistenly or a positive ev with bj? Im sure there are quite a few?
How do I play? I have never gotten into shuffletracking though I do understand it. I count and I hole card and find other advantages as they present themselves.
Blackjack, depending upon the rules, has a mathematical edge for the casino. The majority of that edge comes from the most important rule in the game; if you bust then the dealer busts, you lose. Most people consider playable games those with house edges of .5% or less but often things such as penetration are more important to a counter than a minor rule difference.
So knowing the overall composition of the cards yet to be dealt is where by raising ones bets and changing their play the counter can not only overcome the house edge but give himself a bigger edge. The trouble with the CSM game is you will never have enough information about the remaining cards to make any kind of significant betting or play decision.
Now if there are any casinos in your area with ASM's (automatic shuffling machines) where a whole shoe is being shuffled while another whole shoe is being played. You can count against these as if they were hand shuffled, you just can not shuffle track.
ihate17
There are dozens of ways to beat the casinos. Counting and shuffle tracking are just two techniques that can work. IHate17 mentioned hole carding which can be very effective. There are also different types of tracking, sequencing, steering, scavenger plays and other methods that will sometimes work. I have had good success beating certain side bets as well. Here is a short list of other techniques that can give you an advantage:
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=3995
-Sonny-
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=3995
-Sonny-