Blacjack Switch

[Geoff Hall]

...take for example Casino Royale with a perfect switching player who played "normal" multi-deck BJ BS. What would he be giving up? Or vice-versa under any assumptions you want to make about the skill of the switch player lol. Which is relatively more important in general would you say?

Would you say casinos use the "hold %" to comparatively evaluate the game to others and, if so or even not, how do you suppose they go about figuring out comps for an avg player for which I assume they use some avg HA they think they play at?


Does the Super Match Bet, or whatever it is, stay the same at all casinos? Or even still exist? Didn't seem like the worst side-bet to me.

A player who uses perfect regular blackjack basic strategy will be 0.23% worse off than a player who uses the adjusted 'switch' playing strategy. So, on average, the 'switch' decisions will have a greater impact on the player's overall edge.

Casinos use a mixture of house edge and hands per hour in order to calculate comps. Blackjack Switch is assessed along the same lines as regular Blackjack although some casinos will multiply your bet by 1.5 to take into account the 2 hands played.

The 'Super Match' bet varies depending on whether the game has 6 or 8 decks. The 6-deck version has a house edge of 2.55% and the 8-deck version has a house edge of 2.64%. As far as I am aware the 'Super Match' sidebet has the lowest house edge than any Blackjack side bet.

 

[FLASH1296]

See Arnold Snyder's "Big Book of Blackjack"

See Arnold Snyder's "Big Book of Blsckjack" has the absolute best strategy for this engaging game.

but be aware that many joint that offer the game now deal it with C.S.M.s (continual shuffle machines) making it unplayable of course.​

 

[dangeroso]

Hi Kasi,
So, there are actually 4 versions available to date :-

1. Hit Soft 17 Switched BJ = BJ (e.g.Casino Royale) 0.16%
2. Hit Soft 17 Switched BJ = 21 BJ's auto win (e.g.Tropicana) 0.37%
3. Hit Soft 17 Switched BJ = 21 (e.g. Harrah's, Reno/LakeTahoe) 0.59%
4. Stand Soft 17 Switched BJ = 21 (e.e. Fallsvue, Ontario) 0.25%

Geoff, if I read your post correctly, version 1 allows for a switched BJ to pay out 3:2. If that is correct, it appears that the Casino Royale has changed that rule. I grabbed a rule chart from the Royale today that states that blackjacks pay even money.

 

[FLASH1296]

Has anyone here read Arnold Snyder's chapter on Blackjack Switch in "The Big Book of Blackjack" ?

 

[FLASH1296]

Dangeroso,

Are you aware that The Casino Royale B.J. Switch game is dealt from a C.S.M. ?

 

[FLASH1296]

C. B. J. N. (current edition) lists Fallsview, Ontario's offering of BJ Switch as 8 deck H17 with an e.v. of -.20.

 

[Martin Gayle]

I verify that as of 1 Nov 2008 Casino Niagara, Niagara Falls, ON, CAN, offered the game Flash speaks of. From a shoe of course. This game does not seem popular and you may get heads up action. Casino Niagara is the poor cousin to Fallsview and blue haired ladies probably are pensive about playing two hands.

 

[Kasi]

I verify that as of 1 Nov 2008 Casino Niagara, Niagara Falls, ON, CAN, offered the game Flash speaks of. From a shoe of course. This game does not seem popular and you may get heads up action. Casino Niagara is the poor cousin to Fallsview and blue haired ladies probably are pensive about playing two hands.

Without getting into details, BJS, depending on rules, can be an absolutely beautiful game to play assuming perfect play with an extremely, extremely low HA.

From a BS point-of-view.

 

[Brock Windsor]

Geoff, if I read your post correctly, version 1 allows for a switched BJ to pay out 3:2. If that is correct, it appears that the Casino Royale has changed that rule. I grabbed a rule chart from the Royale today that states that blackjacks pay even money.

You interpreted incorrectly. The switched BJ at Casino Royale is an automatic winner at 1:1. The other versions a switched BJ will push against a dealer 21 or 22 point hand.

 

[moo321]

Has anyone here read Arnold Snyder's chapter on Blackjack Switch in "The Big Book of Blackjack" ?

Yeah. Do you have the book handy? You could post the strategy and see if it's do-able.

 

[FLASH1296]

The strategy is VERY very workable.

The Basic Strategy is altered of course.

There is a method for deciding which hands to switch based on
whether the hands are classified as probable winner, loser, push, etc.

It is too long for me to transcribe here.
If you do not want to but the book, take a notebook and go to Borders
or Barnes & Nobles and find an easy chair and take some notes.

Like Spanish 21 the Pit has not a clue as to how to play the game correctly, ergo they will all but hand you the money. The House Edge, in the right joint, is as low as .20% and the R.O.R. I believe to be rather low as you are always playing two hands.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

...
Like Spanish 21 the Pit has not a clue as to how to play the game correctly, ergo they will all but hand you the money. The House Edge, in the right joint, is as low as .20% and the R.O.R. I believe to be rather low as you are always playing two hands.

Just one thing to add to that- the variance will be significantly higher than if you were playing two hands of straight blackjack at the same table. The reason is you are going to be switching yourself into a lot of doubles and splits. So your losses can be very high.

 

[dangeroso]

You interpreted incorrectly. The switched BJ at Casino Royale is an automatic winner at 1:1. The other versions a switched BJ will push against a dealer 21 or 22 point hand.

Ah, I understand. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[moo321]

Just one thing to add to that- the variance will be significantly higher than if you were playing two hands of straight blackjack at the same table. The reason is you are going to be switching yourself into a lot of doubles and splits. So your losses can be very high.

How does this affect ROR? You're essentially forced to play two hands in all counts, so should you just do half the unit size you are used to?

 

[Automatic Monkey]

How does this affect ROR? You're essentially forced to play two hands in all counts, so should you just do half the unit size you are used to?

I haven't done any hard RoR calculations on it, but as a first approximation I'd treat the bet size as if you were playing two hands.

 

[Kasi]

Just one thing to add to that- the variance will be significantly higher than if you were playing two hands of straight blackjack at the same table. The reason is you are going to be switching yourself into a lot of doubles and splits. So your losses can be very high.

I've wondered about that too.

I think I thought, at least in the old Playtech internet game, what with BS calling for fewer doubles and splits than in BJ, maybe BJS would have less total variance for 2 hands than BJ would for 2 hands (spreading.)

In that game, alot of times one would also elect to switch out of an originally dealt pair creating no pairs at all.

But sometimes vice-versa too lol.

In that game, the HA was so razor-small, the 0.1% comps offered by internet casinos was enogh to turn it into a +EV game.

I'm not very familiar with real-life rules of BJS.

I still play it for a couple hours every time in Vegas without knowing what the heck I'm doing, without my computer, different rules and all, just because Geoff Hall is one of the nicest guys in the world.

One of my heroes. A guy invents a game. Analyzes it. Sells it. It makes some shelf space in Vegas after failing in AC - idiot managers prematurely rejecting it. Their loss. I know he didn't do it all alone but he's the one who followed it thru. IMHO.

It's still around years later. Where did Multi-Action go? Where did "All-in Holdem" go?

I still think it's one of the coolest things.

Hope you're a millionaire by now Geoff. Made my small contribution :grin: :joker: :whip:

 

[Automatic Monkey]

I've wondered about that too.

I think I thought, at least in the old Playtech internet game, what with BS calling for fewer doubles and splits than in BJ, maybe BJS would have less total variance for 2 hands than BJ would for 2 hands (spreading.)

In that game, alot of times one would also elect to switch out of an originally dealt pair creating no pairs at all.

But sometimes vice-versa too lol.

In that game, the HA was so razor-small, the 0.1% comps offered by internet casinos was enogh to turn it into a +EV game.

I'm not very familiar with real-life rules of BJS.

I still play it for a couple hours every time in Vegas without knowing what the heck I'm doing, without my computer, different rules and all, just because Geoff Hall is one of the nicest guys in the world.

One of my heroes. A guy invents a game. Analyzes it. Sells it. It makes some shelf space in Vegas after failing in AC - idiot managers prematurely rejecting it. Their loss. I know he didn't do it all alone but he's the one who followed it thru. IMHO.

It's still around years later. Where did Multi-Action go? Where did "All-in Holdem" go?

I still think it's one of the coolest things.

Hope you're a millionaire by now Geoff. Made my small contribution :grin: :joker: :whip:

Ah yes, the old Playtech BJS game! Made a ton off it, and it also got me locked out of Playtech. I've been douched out of a BJS game in Nevada too, but I'm not saying where. Playtech can't blame Geoff or the game for what happened on their original BJS- they're the ones who got greedy and tweaked the rules without really understanding what they were doing.

You definitely end up with more doubles and splits in a BJS game than two hands of straight blackjack. The conservative BS helps somewhat. Another thing that helps your variance is the even-money naturals- your return is not as dependent on catching a 1-out-of-21 hand as it is in blackjack.

 

[Kasi]

The conservative BS helps somewhat. Another thing that helps your variance is the even-money naturals- your return is not as dependent on catching a 1-out-of-21 hand as it is in blackjack.

I get all teary-eyed just thinking about that game :cry: :cry:
I wanted to hire people to play it for me 24/7.

Heck, sometimes, one would even switch FROM a BJ in the originally dealt hands.

Like a 10,A & 2,10 or 3,10, you'd switch to 10,10 & 2,A or 3,A vs dealer 7,8, & 9, Etc. There's a ton of them.

You're the only guy I know that seems to have a clue about the game, other ones too lol, so, if you say the Playtech game has more variance with 2 hands than BJ spreading to 2 hands, each with a $5 bet per hand, I'll defer lol.

I don't understand it but I'll accept it. Sort of lmao. It's not like I can easily prove otherwise.

It's just hard for me to accept it has more variance than BJ.

 

[sagefr0g]

i know a joint that's got what they call blackjack switch.
i'm not sure, it's either six or eight decks. i don't think they use a csm but not sure.
rules h17
player plays two hands with identical bet on each
player has choice of keeping hands as they are or switching the second card of each hand
splits and doubles are allowed (when switching or not switching)
switched ace/ten counts as a 21
blackjacks only pay even money
if dealer hits a hard 22 then all remaining bets are pushed.

is this the same game everyone is talking about?:whip:

 

[SystemsTrader]

i know a joint that's got what they call blackjack switch.
i'm not sure, it's either six or eight decks. i don't think they use a csm but not sure.
rules h17
player plays two hands with identical bet on each
player has choice of keeping hands as they are or switching the second card of each hand
splits and doubles are allowed (when switching or not switching)
switched ace/ten counts as a 21
blackjacks only pay even money
if dealer hits a hard 22 then all remaining bets are pushed.

is this the same game everyone is talking about?:whip:

Yes Frog the game you describe is Blackjack Switch.