Blackjack, other AP gaming vs. stock market.

junior_counter

junior_counter

Active Member
#1
#1
Blackjack, other AP gaming vs. stock market.

I trust AP analytical opinions here much more then the stock market gibberish and gurus you here everyday on Wall Street. Back in the day, Edward O. Thorp estimated he could make $300K annually playing blackjack full time, and was questioned why he would not do that. He responded that he had a greater interest to make more from the biggest casino in the world, the stock market.

Not sure if he would feel that way today? Have read about professionals who have jumped from Wall Street to AP gaming. Enjoy their new found sports betting and poker careers much more than previous market analyst positions. A big reason being, there are too many unknowns beyond one’s control in the stock market. Gaming is more pure math.

My returns have been much greater for AP gaming than the stock market, and have invested much less in gaming, then the “more stable” stock market. I’m now starting to think otherwise. Why not invest more in myself, then the bozos running Wall Street?

Opinions or experiences of blackjack, or other AP-ing compared to the stock market? If the stock market has had good returns, any recommended books, online references with analysis methods are appreciated. Thx.
 
Y

Young Man

Member
#2
#2
With good stock selection it is possible to achieve astronomical returns, just look at the share price history of some oil stocks to see what i mean. However, you need a good bank roll to play the stock market otherwise trading fees will eliminate your profits. Don't forget it's also possible to bet on share prices falling, so you can make a lot of money in a crash also. I recommend reading: High probability trading strategies by Robert C. Miner. Also http://www.iii.co.uk has some useful free charting options that complement what's taught in the book.
Don't ever invest without a plan and some expertise! Unlike card counting you could lose in the long term. High risk = High reward (hopefully!!!!)
Here's a tip; Victoria Oil & Gas (VOG.L)
I got in at 2.88 pence, now 3.08 with potential 50% return by xmas imo. I like BJ too as you get the casino experience and it gets you away from the computer.
 
P

pit15

Well-Known Member
#3
#3
Young Man said:
However, you need a good bank roll to play the stock market otherwise trading fees will eliminate your profits.
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Always takes $ to make $

same thing in advantage play. Need a good bankroll otherwise expenses/cover will eat into your profit.

When I played green I had to eat some of the expense for hotel rooms (although not much), and pay for some of my food. Now that I'm betting black, not only do I make more on the AP itself, everything's comped and I get tons of match plays, gifts, etc.

Increasing your bet from $25 -> $100 results in more then a 4X return.
 
flyingwind

flyingwind

Well-Known Member
#4
#4
junior_counter said:
Blackjack, other AP gaming vs. stock market.

My returns have been much greater for AP gaming than the stock market, and have invested much less in gaming, then the “more stable” stock market. I’m now starting to think otherwise. Why not invest more in myself, then the bozos running Wall Street?
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Just want to get a sense of how you've made more in AP gaming than in the stock market. Is it because your AP gaming bankroll is much larger than the total amount that you have currently invested in the stock market (aka stock market bankroll)? Have you not made money in the stock market, or lost money, over the last year - 5 years - 10 years? Is your money manager a bonehead, or are you a do-it-yourself investor?

The average do-it-yourself index investor didn't make money over the past decade, and most lost money as their investments couldn't keep up with inflation.
 
blackjack avenger

blackjack avenger

Well-Known Member
#5
#5
Time is Everything

10g in other investments
10g in AP play

How much time you pursue AP would be a huge factor on which has a higher return.

Important point is you can double dip with BJ, while playing bj your bank can be working in other investments.
:joker::whip:
 
junior_counter

junior_counter

Active Member
#6
#6
flyingwind said:
...Is it because your AP gaming bankroll is much larger than the total amount that you have currently invested in the stock market (aka stock market bankroll)? Have you not made money in the stock market, or lost money, over the last year - 5 years - 10 years? Is your money manager a bonehead, or are you a do-it-yourself investor?...
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Made a greater % return on the AP bankroll than the stock market bankroll.

Do-it-yourself investor. Had market returns barely above inflation over 10 years. A much smaller AP bankroll yielded 100%+ returns.

Have not really studied stock market strategies. Portfolio was/is a mix of blue chips and high risk tech stocks. Have placed more time, due to greater interest, in gaming studying and analysis.
 
flyingwind

flyingwind

Well-Known Member
#7
#7
junior_counter said:
Made a greater % return on the AP bankroll than the stock market bankroll.
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Being that my stock market bankroll is significantly larger than my AP bankroll, I had a larger return on investing in the stock market than AP. %-wise, I also made a larger % return on the AP bankroll than the stock market bankroll. However, I'm not willing to take the stock market bankroll to use for AP. It's much too valuable of a nest egg. The question is, how to AP the stock market?
 
flyingwind

flyingwind

Well-Known Member
#8
#8
junior_counter said:
Portfolio was/is a mix of blue chips and high risk tech stocks.
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My portfolio always includes at least 25% in bonds or other fixed income investments. I believe these are a necessary component to balance the portfolio for long term investing.

junior_counter said:
Have placed more time, due to greater interest, in gaming studying and analysis.
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I've spent a good amount of time studying various investment strategies. However, I still don't understand many aspects of trading and investing. Certainly have not figured out how to obtain an edge.

Just a 1.5% edge would be nice. :)
 
flyingwind

flyingwind

Well-Known Member
#9
#9
All of this has happened before and will happen again.
--- Peter Pan / Battlestar Galactica

What happened, happened and could not have happened any other way.
--- Morpheus

It looks like this discussion has happened before. We are merely following in the foot steps of other AP’s, who are following the footsteps of Quants. See:

“Overlap between AP and financial markets”
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?p=161676#post161676
 
flyingwind

flyingwind

Well-Known Member
#12
#12
moo321 said:
Just good old-fashioned Warren Buffet-style value investing should average over 20% with a small portfolio.
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Admittedly, I do not know how to see the true value of a company. I have monies invested in the stock market, between individual stocks and funds. But do I really know the inner workings of these funds or the true value of those company stocks? I don't feel that I do.

The other day, an interesting example came up: Would you invest in the NASDAQ index fund? I suppose I could go either way. But an astute friend pointed out that actually Apple makes up 20% of the NASDAQ right now. So the question is really - are you willing to invest in the NASDAQ and invest 20% of your money into Apple? Well, that sets up the question differently for me, because I believe that Apple stock is over priced at the moment. So then, no, I wouldn't want to invest in the NASDAQ index.

Of course, some of you may disagree for various reasons. One of these may be the fundamentals question of whether Apple stock is really overpriced or not. That question in and of itself will spark a debate amongst investors.

The example is just to demonstrate that I don't really understand the inner workings of all this: Exactly what is in the NASDAQ, exactly what is inside Apple stock, and I certainly don't understand very well the macroeconomic forces that set the stage for the entire market.
 
S

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#13
#13
I'm not familiar with which Nasdaq Index you are referring to, but an index fund should not have 20% of it's capital in any one stock. Something is amiss there.
 
S

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#14
#14
flyingwind said:
My portfolio always includes at least 25% in bonds or other fixed income investments. I believe these are a necessary component to balance the portfolio for long term investing.



I've spent a good amount of time studying various investment strategies. However, I still don't understand many aspects of trading and investing. Certainly have not figured out how to obtain an edge.

Just a 1.5% edge would be nice. :)
Click to expand...
Buy sheep,sell deer
or my favorite- Buy Yiddish, sell British.
 
S

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#16
#16
Brock Windsor said:
The QQQQ is almost 20% apple now.
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I'm very surprised to see that. I pulled most of my money out of Q for different reasons earlier this year, but that would cause me to sell if I still had much of a position.
 
S

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#18
#18
flyingwind said:
I believe you're trying to teach me something important. However, I'm missing it. I can't see it.
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If I told you all it takes to reach the highest high
you'd laugh and say nothing can be so simple
You've been told many times before,
messiahs pointed to the door
but no ones had the strength to leave the temple.
 
moo321

moo321

Well-Known Member
#19
#19
flyingwind said:
Admittedly, I do not know how to see the true value of a company. I have monies invested in the stock market, between individual stocks and funds. But do I really know the inner workings of these funds or the true value of those company stocks? I don't feel that I do.

The other day, an interesting example came up: Would you invest in the NASDAQ index fund? I suppose I could go either way. But an astute friend pointed out that actually Apple makes up 20% of the NASDAQ right now. So the question is really - are you willing to invest in the NASDAQ and invest 20% of your money into Apple? Well, that sets up the question differently for me, because I believe that Apple stock is over priced at the moment. So then, no, I wouldn't want to invest in the NASDAQ index.

Of course, some of you may disagree for various reasons. One of these may be the fundamentals question of whether Apple stock is really overpriced or not. That question in and of itself will spark a debate amongst investors.

The example is just to demonstrate that I don't really understand the inner workings of all this: Exactly what is in the NASDAQ, exactly what is inside Apple stock, and I certainly don't understand very well the macroeconomic forces that set the stage for the entire market.
Click to expand...
Don't overthink it. Just invest on financial ratios. Price/earnings, price/sales, price/book, dividend yield.
 
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