borrowed money
- Thread starter Tbone1020
- Start date
Listen to me and listen to me very carefully. The very fact that you're asking this question tells me, an unbiased observer, that you have a gambling addiction. I realize you may have money problems right now and think you might be able to get out of it by gambling. Please don't. Call 1-800-Gambler right now. They can help you with your problems. Gambling isn't the answer.
Thunder's reaction closely mirrors my own.
Borrowing money to gamble is a self-destructive absurdity that can only be attributed to someone whose judgement re: money and gambling is warped.
Gambling is an avocation that ought to be engaged in only with "discretionary funds"; with money that is unneeded, that is "extra", that exists after all normal expenditures, e.g. paying bills, savings, etc. are satisfied.
Patrons lined up at A.T.M. machines in casinos may, (in a few cases), be limiting themselves to a single small sum; but even in those cases their judgement is seriously in question, especially as these transactions come with absurdly inflated fees.
Borrowing money to gamble is a self-destructive absurdity that can only be attributed to someone whose judgement re: money and gambling is warped.
Gambling is an avocation that ought to be engaged in only with "discretionary funds"; with money that is unneeded, that is "extra", that exists after all normal expenditures, e.g. paying bills, savings, etc. are satisfied.
Patrons lined up at A.T.M. machines in casinos may, (in a few cases), be limiting themselves to a single small sum; but even in those cases their judgement is seriously in question, especially as these transactions come with absurdly inflated fees.
Yep... Don't gamble unless you got spare money that you could do without. I work at the bank and borrowing money to gamble with those high interest rates will kill you. Just the other day a lady took out 20k from her loan. She came back the next day and paid back the 20k and she said it was from a casino.. The thing was she lost 9k and she wanted to win it back with 20k... Not a very good idea but I guess she was lucky and made it back. Sign of a bad gambler.. so don't do it..
I'll take a slightly different angle on this.
Playing with borrowed money is fine, AS LONG AS it is viewed as an investment by all parties, and that they all understand the risks involved. It must be a professional arrangement, with a talented, experienced player, EQUIVALENT to investment in a company.
However, I very highly doubt that your situation matches this, so no, don't take any borrowed money to play. What a horrible idea.
Playing with borrowed money is fine, AS LONG AS it is viewed as an investment by all parties, and that they all understand the risks involved. It must be a professional arrangement, with a talented, experienced player, EQUIVALENT to investment in a company.
However, I very highly doubt that your situation matches this, so no, don't take any borrowed money to play. What a horrible idea.
A better Idea is to get "bankrolled"... Have some one give you the money in return for a cut of the wins/losses and of course return of the original stake or what's left of it.
1. You have to KNOW what you are doing.
2. Investors have to KNOW that they can lose it all.
3. It's an easy way to lose friends and make enemies.
4. I never ask to be bankrolled, but I do it sometimes when I KNOW the guy(s) can afford the total loss (they don't need the money) and they understand the risk and they are willing to put up enough to make it worth while and feasible... and I usually have some skin in the game also. The advantage being larger bets and less financial risk for me.
Example: was going to play and this guy I know (he can afford it) comes up and says here's $1000. Go make me some money, I smiled and politely told him playing with 1k was a good way to lose it all.
1. You have to KNOW what you are doing.
2. Investors have to KNOW that they can lose it all.
3. It's an easy way to lose friends and make enemies.
4. I never ask to be bankrolled, but I do it sometimes when I KNOW the guy(s) can afford the total loss (they don't need the money) and they understand the risk and they are willing to put up enough to make it worth while and feasible... and I usually have some skin in the game also. The advantage being larger bets and less financial risk for me.
Example: was going to play and this guy I know (he can afford it) comes up and says here's $1000. Go make me some money, I smiled and politely told him playing with 1k was a good way to lose it all.
Why not? Just make sure that if you borrow money and are unable to pay it back, the person you borrowed it from is the one who's screwed and not you.
Alexander Hamilton came up with the idea of running the fledgling United States into debt, because no one would want to take us over and have to take over the debt too.
Alexander Hamilton came up with the idea of running the fledgling United States into debt, because no one would want to take us over and have to take over the debt too.
it's very, very interesting the response so far.
i thought the general consensus would be if your playing with an advantage why not borrow money for a roll.
the strongest positive on this idea so far has been yes if you look at it as an investment.
just me maybe but might there be a profound point here? well if there is it's beyond my ability to articulate.
what would it mean for money not borrowed?
what ever i vote no loan.:whip:
i thought the general consensus would be if your playing with an advantage why not borrow money for a roll.
the strongest positive on this idea so far has been yes if you look at it as an investment.
just me maybe but might there be a profound point here? well if there is it's beyond my ability to articulate.
what would it mean for money not borrowed?
what ever i vote no loan.:whip:
sagefr0g said:
it's very, very interesting the response so far.
i thought the general consensus would be if your playing with an advantage why not borrow money for a roll.
the strongest positive on this idea so far has been yes if you look at it as an investment.
just me maybe but might there be a profound point here? well if there is it's beyond my ability to articulate.
what would it mean for money not borrowed?
what ever i vote no loan.:whip:
i thought the general consensus would be if your playing with an advantage why not borrow money for a roll.
the strongest positive on this idea so far has been yes if you look at it as an investment.
just me maybe but might there be a profound point here? well if there is it's beyond my ability to articulate.
what would it mean for money not borrowed?
what ever i vote no loan.:whip:
1. Interest on loan will continue whether you win or lose until paid back.
2. If all or most is lost.. then not only do you have to earn more to continue playing on top of life expenses, but you also have to earn enough to repay the loan, all the while paying interest.
3. If you can handle these problems...and the real upside is enough; go for it, else abort.
There is no profound point.... the answer depends on your circumstances and ability to recover. Personally, I view all money as borrowed. I borrow the money from somewhere everytime I play... but usually from myself.... or should I say my other self.
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Opportunity costs
...and while we are touching on profound.... I seldom hear anyone mention the "opportunity cost" of playing. (that's one for you bean counters out there). This can be and for me is often a very real cost... and it boils down to what would you be potentially earning or not while spending your time playing cards. It really should determine your bankroll and bet size. (I think Matt21 may have touched on this one some where.)
Something to think about.
...and while we are touching on profound.... I seldom hear anyone mention the "opportunity cost" of playing. (that's one for you bean counters out there). This can be and for me is often a very real cost... and it boils down to what would you be potentially earning or not while spending your time playing cards. It really should determine your bankroll and bet size. (I think Matt21 may have touched on this one some where.)
Something to think about.
absolutely not
Referring to the current financial crisis I would assume most have learned that lesson . You as the USA is finding out you can not borrow your way out of debt. I am surprised the chinese are still buying our debt[but they are] and when it is rolled over you know it will be at a higher interest rate thus adding to the debt . That being said .
If you can not afford it do not buy it, if you can not afford to lose do not gamble, and as always little or no debt and cash heavy is always the winner as deals will come . Remember the golden rule - he who has the gold rules.
If yoour investors can afford it do you think they will continue to BR you if you lose? If it is friends you may lose them as friends. I think and concur with the majority here on the forum it is very foolish to pursue this endeavor.
Referring to the current financial crisis I would assume most have learned that lesson . You as the USA is finding out you can not borrow your way out of debt. I am surprised the chinese are still buying our debt[but they are] and when it is rolled over you know it will be at a higher interest rate thus adding to the debt . That being said .
If you can not afford it do not buy it, if you can not afford to lose do not gamble, and as always little or no debt and cash heavy is always the winner as deals will come . Remember the golden rule - he who has the gold rules.
If yoour investors can afford it do you think they will continue to BR you if you lose? If it is friends you may lose them as friends. I think and concur with the majority here on the forum it is very foolish to pursue this endeavor.
If Only
If Only
If only I had a larger bankroll. 20 grand will do
Wait, I can borrow the money. I can do this, counting is easy.
I win all the time, I’m great. Never a thought in my mind of losing, I’m a winner.
And then you get cocky, Then your mister know it all,
Then the down swing from hell hits.
You’re playing green and down $15 grand of borrowed money.
Now what am I doing wrong? I am positive I’m playing the same way but I can’t win.
With $5 grand left I know the RISK OF RUIN, I should be playing red, but how the heck will I ever recoup $15 grand at a win rate of 2-3 units per hour. I have to stay at $25 min or it will take a lifetime to repay that $20 grand.
My hearts pounding, I’m short of breathe, every loosing hand makes me angry at the world, I’m cursing out the dealer, I grab a beer to calm my nerves, now I’m ready, I feel better. I’m playing my top game except now I’m pushing out max bets at -5 instead of +5 because the stress, the pounding of the heart, and that one drink made me forget the “M” in the count and now I think it’s positive.
Now I’m busted, I lost it all, holy **** what am I going to do now.
Will I borrow more?
If Only
I thought it out more
$20k from a credit card (~18% interest) will cost you approx $500/month for the next ~ 5 years. If you didn’t borrow the money you could have built up a nice $30k br.
$20k from that 2nd mortgage at 5%, not so bad … $250/ for 10 years, again a nice $30k br.
Ok, so you can afford the $500 a month, I’ll pay it off over time…
But look at all those beautiful things you could have done with the money you are paying in interest, and how will you ever raise enough additional funds to try your skills again?
The stores will always be open, the games will always be there, how can we get around this problem… hmmm.
If I can pay $500 per month to pay off my loan PLUS interest, why not just put $500/ month away in the bank. After 1 year I’ll have $6,000 to play with and not have any pressure of owing anyone.
No matter how well disciplined you are, when you hit one of those inevitable long losing streaks you need to have the will and frame of mind to cope.
Unless you really know your financial and mental limits of borrowing to gamble, I strongly suggest you avoid it. If you want it so bad you can taste it here’s some help:
Before you make the decision to borrow to gamble, write down the amount you want for your starting BR. Now take your monthly total income and divide it into the amount you want for a starting BR. Now this should be how many months of income it will take to build it.
So now you’re ready to see things in motion.
You are putting all your money in the bank, every last dime.
You not going to pay your household expenses, your insurances, your car payment, your food bills will go on credit cards, no new clothes, no hanging with the guys at the bar, no meeting friends for dinners, nothing. Life is stagnant.
After the first month be prepared… the phone starts ringing… you missed your payment.. we’re sure it was an oversight but this is just a reminder…. Oh and if the payment is in the mail thank you for the payment and sorry to have bothered you. Ah not so bad… ok so you just saved 1 months of income and ducked from the payments….
Next month they’re not as friendly. Now you begin to feel the pressure… your chest hurts in places you thought came from working out too hard… but now you are not working out the muscles in your chest, but the ones around your chest, around your heart as the blood pressure begins to raise.
So you just saved two months of income and still haven’t paid the bills.
Let’s go for three months… now there are no more friendly calls. Now there notices. Notices of non payment, notices of repossession, notice of eviction, etc… etc… so you thought you were so smart that you could stop paying everything and take the pressure.. How are you feeling now?
Forget about that credit report. Forget about your ratings. That’s not the issue here.
Can you stop paying everything else just so you can play Blackjack? Every bet you place you’ll be sweating, you’ll feel the pressure, is that how you want to live your life?
Well you have the money in the bank, call up those creditors pay them all off and forget about the borrowed money for gambling, you can’t take the pressure. You’ve ruined your credit for a little while but at least you didn’t lose anything.
On the other hand, you took the pressure, you’ve got the balls, then borrow money to gamble. Now prepare for the pressure to double. Prepare for the anger you’ll feel.
Prepare for the years it will take to get out of the hole.
Be smart. Wait. Save the money over the months. Then when you lose some or all the BR you can look back and say well I still have my health, my home, my family. I’m just out a few bucks nothing to fret over. I’ll rebuild without the pressure of paying back a loan on top of trying to rebuild.
I hope anyone standing at this cross road decides on the correct path.
Give it much thought before you fall in.
If Only I had a bigger Bankroll
If only I had the money I lost
If only I knew it all
If Only I listened to my elders
If Only.
BJC
If Only
If only I had a larger bankroll. 20 grand will do
Wait, I can borrow the money. I can do this, counting is easy.
I win all the time, I’m great. Never a thought in my mind of losing, I’m a winner.
And then you get cocky, Then your mister know it all,
Then the down swing from hell hits.
You’re playing green and down $15 grand of borrowed money.
Now what am I doing wrong? I am positive I’m playing the same way but I can’t win.
With $5 grand left I know the RISK OF RUIN, I should be playing red, but how the heck will I ever recoup $15 grand at a win rate of 2-3 units per hour. I have to stay at $25 min or it will take a lifetime to repay that $20 grand.
My hearts pounding, I’m short of breathe, every loosing hand makes me angry at the world, I’m cursing out the dealer, I grab a beer to calm my nerves, now I’m ready, I feel better. I’m playing my top game except now I’m pushing out max bets at -5 instead of +5 because the stress, the pounding of the heart, and that one drink made me forget the “M” in the count and now I think it’s positive.
Now I’m busted, I lost it all, holy **** what am I going to do now.
Will I borrow more?
If Only
I thought it out more
$20k from a credit card (~18% interest) will cost you approx $500/month for the next ~ 5 years. If you didn’t borrow the money you could have built up a nice $30k br.
$20k from that 2nd mortgage at 5%, not so bad … $250/ for 10 years, again a nice $30k br.
Ok, so you can afford the $500 a month, I’ll pay it off over time…
But look at all those beautiful things you could have done with the money you are paying in interest, and how will you ever raise enough additional funds to try your skills again?
The stores will always be open, the games will always be there, how can we get around this problem… hmmm.
If I can pay $500 per month to pay off my loan PLUS interest, why not just put $500/ month away in the bank. After 1 year I’ll have $6,000 to play with and not have any pressure of owing anyone.
No matter how well disciplined you are, when you hit one of those inevitable long losing streaks you need to have the will and frame of mind to cope.
Unless you really know your financial and mental limits of borrowing to gamble, I strongly suggest you avoid it. If you want it so bad you can taste it here’s some help:
Before you make the decision to borrow to gamble, write down the amount you want for your starting BR. Now take your monthly total income and divide it into the amount you want for a starting BR. Now this should be how many months of income it will take to build it.
So now you’re ready to see things in motion.
You are putting all your money in the bank, every last dime.
You not going to pay your household expenses, your insurances, your car payment, your food bills will go on credit cards, no new clothes, no hanging with the guys at the bar, no meeting friends for dinners, nothing. Life is stagnant.
After the first month be prepared… the phone starts ringing… you missed your payment.. we’re sure it was an oversight but this is just a reminder…. Oh and if the payment is in the mail thank you for the payment and sorry to have bothered you. Ah not so bad… ok so you just saved 1 months of income and ducked from the payments….
Next month they’re not as friendly. Now you begin to feel the pressure… your chest hurts in places you thought came from working out too hard… but now you are not working out the muscles in your chest, but the ones around your chest, around your heart as the blood pressure begins to raise.
So you just saved two months of income and still haven’t paid the bills.
Let’s go for three months… now there are no more friendly calls. Now there notices. Notices of non payment, notices of repossession, notice of eviction, etc… etc… so you thought you were so smart that you could stop paying everything and take the pressure.. How are you feeling now?
Forget about that credit report. Forget about your ratings. That’s not the issue here.
Can you stop paying everything else just so you can play Blackjack? Every bet you place you’ll be sweating, you’ll feel the pressure, is that how you want to live your life?
Well you have the money in the bank, call up those creditors pay them all off and forget about the borrowed money for gambling, you can’t take the pressure. You’ve ruined your credit for a little while but at least you didn’t lose anything.
On the other hand, you took the pressure, you’ve got the balls, then borrow money to gamble. Now prepare for the pressure to double. Prepare for the anger you’ll feel.
Prepare for the years it will take to get out of the hole.
Be smart. Wait. Save the money over the months. Then when you lose some or all the BR you can look back and say well I still have my health, my home, my family. I’m just out a few bucks nothing to fret over. I’ll rebuild without the pressure of paying back a loan on top of trying to rebuild.
I hope anyone standing at this cross road decides on the correct path.
Give it much thought before you fall in.
If Only I had a bigger Bankroll
If only I had the money I lost
If only I knew it all
If Only I listened to my elders
If Only.
BJC
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Tbone1020 said:
thanks i appricate your concerns but i dont believe i have a gambling problem i just have a small bankrole($1,000) and thought this might be a way to get a bigger one but now i know, i wanted an outside opinion
Tbone1020 said:
thanks i appricate your concerns but i dont believe i have a gambling problem i just have a small bankrole($1,000) and thought this might be a way to get a bigger one but now i know, i wanted an outside opinion
You can take cash advances off credit cards with no intention of ever paying them back. You only get to do it once. Max out every unsecured card you have, then declare bankruptcy. But you're not really bankrupt, you have all the money in cash. Go to bankruptcy court, tell them you have a gambling problem (maybe go to some GA meetings as a ruse) then the nice judge washes your sins away, and you have your bankroll to start your new career as an advantage player.
And if you **** up, you will have no money and no credit. You don't even have to **** up, you can just have a normal unlucky streak. It will be difficult to find a job or a place to live, as credit reports are now frequently used (unfairly, in my opinion, and as a way to circumvent anti-discrimination laws) for all kinds of things that have nothing to do with credit. Whether or not your life goes into the toilet will depend on the turn of a card. It is degrading to your precious life to wager it in this way.
A better choice is to go with your $1K bankroll, play a $50 or $100 max bet against a $5 minimum bet, and be very willing to lose your $1K.