Casino questions!! plz read

C

choubak

Member
#1
#1
Aight so first off, hi to everyone .. im new in this forum.. ive read alot since.. so heres my questions!!!

I started a team (we are 3 players) we use perfectly the basic strategy and also the Hi-Low card count. We think we are ready to hit the casino but we have a few questions before. The casino we're looking at is playing 8 decks.. they cut approx. 2 decks when they start(we dont play the decks that are cut) and they remove the first card of the shoe when they start the game. What are our chances against the casino. Do we have to know the % of penetration ? If so.. how do we know it.. And does team play will affect the % of winnings?

Thanks alot for your time!
 
moo321

moo321

Well-Known Member
#2
#2
8 deck games are generally horrible. 2 decks cut off is about average. If you're playing all counts, you'll probably need a 1-20 spread or so to get a good hourly yield. If I were you, I'd play exclusively a back-counting game.
 
C

choubak

Member
#3
#3
moo321 said:
8 deck games are generally horrible. 2 decks cut off is about average. If you're playing all counts, you'll probably need a 1-20 spread or so to get a good hourly yield. If I were you, I'd play exclusively a back-counting game.
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What do you mean by 2 decks cut off is about average...?

Since english in not my native language, can you explain me in other word what do you mean by 1-20 spread !?
 
la_dee_daa

la_dee_daa

Well-Known Member
#4
#4
choubak said:
What do you mean by 2 decks cut off is about average...?

Since english in not my native language, can you explain me in other word what do you mean by 1-20 spread !?
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1-20 spread is your largest bet is 20x larger then your smallest. so say you smallest bet was $5 you largest would be $100.

what type of rules are there for the game?
 
Sonny

Sonny

Well-Known Member
#5
#5
choubak said:
We think we are ready to hit the casino but we have a few questions before.
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I’m not trying to be rude here, but you’re definitely not ready to hit the casino yet. It sounds like you have never even played BJ before. Managing a successful team is a huge responsibility. You need to have a lot of answers and a lot of experience. It could easily take a year or more before you know enough to even think about putting together a semi-serious team. Spend the next year or so reading books, studying articles and practicing with your teammates. You’ll know when you’re actually ready.

choubak said:
What are our chances against the casino.
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We can’t answer that question. You didn’t mention what rules the casino offers, your betting spread, your playing style, or what team playing techniques you plan on using. Without knowing anything about the game or your style of play we really can’t offer any advice. If you are really ready to hit the casino then you should already know what sort of hourly earnings to expect as well as what sort of short-term variance you will encounter, what degree of risk you are accepting, how long it might take to see results, what your payout schedule will be, how each player will be compensated, how the team’s expenses will be handled, how much of your bankroll you should bring for each trip, what techniques you will be using, yadda yadda yadda.

choubak said:
Do we have to know the % of penetration ? If so.. how do we know it..
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The penetration is usually the most important factor in the game so it is very important to know it. In this case the casino uses 8 decks and deals about 6 of them for a total of 6/8 = 75% penetration. That’s not bad, but it ain’t great. You are going to see a lot of negative/neutral counts so you’ll need to be very patient. Also, make sure you’re wearing comfortable shoes because you’re going to be walking around looking for opportunities about 75% of the time. At 75 hands per hour, that’s only about 19 hands played each hour. You’re going to spend the vast majority of your time not playing. Be prepared for that.

-Sonny-
 
G

Guynoire

Well-Known Member
#6
#6
Unless you have a bankroll of 10's of thousands of dollars and plan on betting hundreds of dollars on each hand, any form of team play other than every man for himself is unecessary. However, if you have that large a bankroll I wouldn't start a team in your situation because it is simply too much money to risk without knowing such things as the expected return and the amount of variance you may encounter.
If you really want to start a team and are adequately financed, make sure you are not overbetting, I would suggest the every man for himself strategy. In this strategy everyone just counts cards independently and you pool your winnings. This reduces your overall variance and allows you to make larger bets without overbetting.
 
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I

InPlay

Banned
#7
#7
choubak said:
Aight so first off, hi to everyone .. im new in this forum.. ive read alot since.. so heres my questions!!!

I started a team (we are 3 players) we use perfectly the basic strategy and also the Hi-Low card count. We think we are ready to hit the casino but we have a few questions before. The casino we're looking at is playing 8 decks.. they cut approx. 2 decks when they start(we dont play the decks that are cut) and they remove the first card of the shoe when they start the game. What are our chances against the casino. Do we have to know the % of penetration ? If so.. how do we know it.. And does team play will affect the % of winnings?

Thanks alot for your time!
Click to expand...
You better do a lot of more homework you ain't even close to stepping in a casino.
 
C

choubak

Member
#8
#8
well first off.. thanks for your honesty and all!! I like the replys im gettin so far

to answer some questions...

the casino BJ doesnt let us surrender.. the minimum is 15$... the offset is 0.05 I think.. and the other basic BJ rules are applicated

We been playing almost for 2 years blackjack now.. the team earnings will be splitted equally to each member.. Everyone is putting the same amount for the bankroll.. but we havent decided yet how much we putting. The technique we wanted to use was "Wonging" until it was in our favor.. placing always the same bet unless it realllly gets in our favor

As for short-term variance and degree of risk... I aint familiar with those term in english.. could someone please explain me what they actually mean.. And with patience.. well we are very patient people.. I can easily remember spending hours at the casino just watching and watching... a lot of times!

any other advice or things to point out will be welcomed!!

The more information I get... the more prepared ill get... if you have any links to direct information plz post them too!


Thanks for your time again fellas!
 
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Sonny

Sonny

Well-Known Member
#10
#10
choubak said:
The technique we wanted to use was "Wonging" until it was in our favor.. placing always the same bet unless it realllly gets in our favor
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Wonging is a great technique, but it will work much better if you adjust your bets as your advantage increases instead of flat betting the same amount most of the time. Flat betting will work, but you won’t earn very much money.

choubak said:
As for short-term variance and degree of risk... I aint familiar with those term in english.. could someone please explain me what they actually mean.
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Variance refers to how volatile your results are. For example, you might expect to earn $20 per hour but end up losing $400 in the first hour you play. It is important to know what range of results to expect so that you can bring enough money to come back from a bad losing streak. Short-term variance is usually called Standard Deviation. It tells you how far your results might vary from your expectation. You can use this information to know how much money to bring on a trip and to know if your results are unexpected.

Long-term variance is often called Risk of Ruin. It is the probability that you will lose all of your money even though you are playing with an advantage. If your bankroll is too small then you will have a big chance of going broke. It is very important to know how much risk you are taking with your money.

-Sonny-
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
#11
#11
moo321 said:
8 deck games are generally horrible. 2 decks cut off is about average. If you're playing all counts, you'll probably need a 1-20 spread or so to get a good hourly yield.
Click to expand...
Whats a "good hourly yield"? (1-20 play-all 8D 75%) zg
 
la_dee_daa

la_dee_daa

Well-Known Member
#12
#12
choubak said:
As for short-term variance and degree of risk..
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short term variance- you will get very large swings in your bankroll up and down up to 60 units per 100 hands.

degree of risk- there is always a chance that you will lose alot of your bankroll if not all of it. You can reduce this by sizing your bets and not overbetting.

It would help to know what bankroll you have and are playing with. because if its not very large its better to go with every man for himself. where you all just play off the same bankroll and size your bets appropriatly.

do you know the house edge?

do you know your risk of ruin for what your bankroll is?

you need to know these first things so you can have you advanatage work to an advantage. i use (Dead link: http://www.bjstats.com/index.htm) for some of this stuff.
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
#13
#13
choubak said:
Aight so first off, hi to everyone .. im new in this forum.. ive read alot since.. so heres my questions!!!

I started a team (we are 3 players) we use perfectly the basic strategy and also the Hi-Low card count. We think we are ready to hit the casino but we have a few questions before. The casino we're looking at is playing 8 decks.. they cut approx. 2 decks when they start(we dont play the decks that are cut) and they remove the first card of the shoe when they start the game. What are our chances against the casino. Do we have to know the % of penetration ? If so.. how do we know it.. And does team play will affect the % of winnings?

Thanks alot for your time!
Click to expand...
How much is the bankroll? zg
 
K

Kasi

Well-Known Member
#16
#16
choubak said:
the bankroll is about 5K and we are playin on 25$ minimum bet tables
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I love it when people want us to bet their money.

Choubak - are you really saying a $5K roll for a team of 3 players playing a min $25 8 deck table with 2 decks cut-off??

"Oh the humanity" as the guy said when the Hindenburg crashed and burned.
 
C

Canceler

Well-Known Member
#19
#19
Kasi said:
Choubak - are you really saying a $5K roll for a team of 3 players playing a min $25 8 deck table with 2 decks cut-off??
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choubak said:
the way you say it is like ill need more teammeates for a better team play?
and alot of patience since the penetration isnt that good
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No, he's saying that with your relatively small bankroll, plus the relatively large minimum bet, combined with a relatively bad game, you will likely be wiped out quickly no matter what you do. :(
 
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