Counting is harder than people think

J

JulieCA

Well-Known Member
#1
#1
Ran into a guy at the casino yesterday who was passionate about his "system." He figured because of my correct play that I was a fellow afficionado. The nutcase waited for me outside the bathroom, chips in hand, so he could explain to me the progressive betting strategy (which I am already familiar with), as well as his very complicated method of tracking hands won/lost and a variation on the progressive betting that he's trying out. He's even written his own basic strategy flash card software program.

I stood there and "uh-huhed" while he went on, but when he said he'd been studying the game for 35 years, I asked him why, if he put all this time and effort into it, he hadn't tried to learn how to count cards. (For extra ploppy effect, I said "Gee, have you seen that movie? You'd probably make a killing with all you know!" Not that I do the dumb blonde very well, but I gave it my best effort.)

Nah, he says - counting cards is harder than people think and there aren't really that many people who can do it. (And he's convinced his betting system is as effective.)

Hoo boy. It was an interesting day at the casino.
 
Dyepaintball12

Dyepaintball12

Well-Known Member
#2
#2
I was playing the other day and the 50-something year old woman next to me leaned over and asked if I was "Counting the 10s".

I said "Um no I'm not. Why?" And she proceeded to explain why counting the tens would be better for the player and how I should do it.

Awesome.
 
Sonny

Sonny

Well-Known Member
#3
#3
JulieCA said:
The nutcase waited for me outside the bathroom, chips in hand, so he could explain to me the progressive betting strategy (which I am already familiar with), as well as his very complicated method of tracking hands won/lost and a variation on the progressive betting that he's trying out. He's even written his own basic strategy flash card software program.
Click to expand...
That's really funny! I always laugh about how complicated some of these progression systems get. He's probably concentrating and working harder than most card counters do while at the table, but all in vain.

"Work smarted, not harder." - Scrooge McDuck

-Sonny-
 
2

21forme

Well-Known Member
#4
#4
Look at the bright side - at least he didn't follow you into the bathroom.

If you want complicated, try learning the HC strategy for Ultimate Texas Holdem!
 
Sonny

Sonny

Well-Known Member
#5
#5
21forme said:
If you want complicated, try learning the HC strategy for Ultimate Texas Holdem!
Click to expand...
It's not nearly as complicated as that particular chapter makes it seem. Read further...;)

-Sonny-
 
jack.jackson

jack.jackson

Well-Known Member
#6
#6
JulieCA said:
Ran into a guy at the casino yesterday who was passionate about his "system." He figured because of my correct play that I was a fellow afficionado. The nutcase waited for me outside the bathroom, chips in hand, so he could explain to me the progressive betting strategy (which I am already familiar with), as well as his very complicated method of tracking hands won/lost and a variation on the progressive betting that he's trying out. He's even written his own basic strategy flash card software program.

I stood there and "uh-huhed" while he went on, but when he said he'd been studying the game for 35 years, I asked him why, if he put all this time and effort into it, he hadn't tried to learn how to count cards. (For extra ploppy effect, I said "Gee, have you seen that movie? You'd probably make a killing with all you know!" Not that I do the dumb blonde very well, but I gave it my best effort.)

Nah, he says - counting cards is harder than people think and there aren't really that many people who can do it. (And he's convinced his betting system is as effective.)

Hoo boy. It was an interesting day at the casino.
Click to expand...
Haha.....funny story! and i so love how you gracefully put it. Sometimes the "uh huh's is all it takes to convince a fool. More than likely, he was just trying to make an impression on you. It's amazing how easily people can fool themselves. lol.
 
D

dacium

Well-Known Member
#7
#7
Am I the only one who found card counting to be easier than expected? When I first heard about it (long before i had the internet) I thought it involved keeping track of the number of cards of each rank. I had no idea how simple a high/lo count could be.
 
Automatic Monkey

Automatic Monkey

Banned
#8
#8
dacium said:
Am I the only one who found card counting to be easier than expected? When I first heard about it (long before i had the internet) I thought it involved keeping track of the number of cards of each rank. I had no idea how simple a high/lo count could be.
Click to expand...
Yes, same here. I first heard of it when I saw the Ken Uston interview on 60 Minutes, when I was very young, and as usual he overcomplicated it. Then a few decades later, I read the High-Low count condensed down to a single paragraph before a vacation to Las Vegas. Sitting at a table at the Venetian, it took me about an hour before I could count effortlessly. That was the night Roy was attacked by the tiger.
 
B

BJgenius007

Well-Known Member
#9
#9
Automatic Monkey said:
Yes, same here. I first heard of it when I saw the Ken Uston interview on 60 Minutes, when I was very young, and as usual he overcomplicated it. Then a few decades later, I read the High-Low count condensed down to a single paragraph before a vacation to Las Vegas. Sitting at a table at the Venetian, it took me about an hour before I could count effortlessly. That was the night Roy was attacked by the tiger.
Click to expand...
Universe balances out. If you had not learned card counting, the tiger would never attack Roy.
 
P

prankster

Well-Known Member
#10
#10
Great story Julie. I believe the casinos want people to think card counting is illegal -or you gotta be some kind of math genius who also has a photographic memory-or both to count cards! The truth is of course that all will go well for you at the tables so long as you don't mess with the sacred order of the cards!:joker:
 
J

johndoe

Well-Known Member
#11
#11
Automatic Monkey said:
Yes, same here. I first heard of it when I saw the Ken Uston interview on 60 Minutes, when I was very young, and as usual he overcomplicated it. Then a few decades later, I read the High-Low count condensed down to a single paragraph before a vacation to Las Vegas. Sitting at a table at the Venetian, it took me about an hour before I could count effortlessly. That was the night Roy was attacked by the tiger.
Click to expand...
I had about the same experience. I was never a gambler, but a good friend had told me what counting was and how to do it in just a few minutes. Months later, I sat at a table at the Wynn and counted, and saw how trivial it was to do. (Of course, I didn't know BS back then!)

It was enough motivation to read more and learn it "for real".

Like JG said, beating the game is trivial. Managing heat is the hard part.
 
T

tensplitter

Well-Known Member
#12
#12
They want you to think card counting is hard by saying that it's hard to count an 8 deck shoe or that only people smart enough to go to MIT would count cards. But the reality is that any first grader can count cards. All you need to know is how to add and subtract 1 and have a good short term memory.
 
P

pit15

Well-Known Member
#13
#13
It's DAMN hard to make a LIVING counting cards.

You need a massive bank in order to do it to make a GOOD living, and need to somehow be able to get away with your play.

I don't consider a 5-40 nickel grinder making $10 / hour as making a living. Go work at mcdonalds and save yourself the hassle. It's one thing to do that recreationally or as a new AP learning the ropes intending to move up, but to seriously try to play 40+ hours a week to make a lousy 10 bucks an hour with massive variance? That's insane.

Personally I feel that to successfully AP, you need to earn DOUBLE what you could at a regular job that you can obtain. First off you have massive variance, so you need extra funds at all times to avoid getting royally screwed. And you're taking a huge amount of risk, you need a bigger reward then a steady job that pays a regular paycheck.

For me, that # would be around $150,000 / year give or take. To do it counting that would probably require a $500K bankroll and going around the country getting barred from every place, then going back around after the barrings expire (and hopefully you don't run out of places to go to before barrings at previous places expire).

If you can pull this off, good for you, you're one of the few. There's a lot of good reasons why 99.99% of people fail at counting.

Even for the AP I'm currently doing it's starting to get tough. I've only been doing it for a few months, but I'm already hitting the thresholds where I'm afraid to raise my bet because of heat. I can't imagine how fast I'd get booted for trying to spread 1-20 in black on a blackjack table.
 
Last edited:
S

snbjason

Member
#14
#14
I was watching two guys playing the other day, because from a distance they seemed as cc from the top to the bottom. After watching them for a couple of hands i realized that they didn't even know what bs is. After some time i found them at the bar and asked how did they go and that i was watching their game. They started saying hilarious things such as "you always have to stand against a dealers 6" and some other witchcraft. I nodded as i was admiring them and they closed saying some weird nonsense math and the phrase "it is easy to beat the house". I waived them and went home smiling to myself.
 
S

Sucker

Well-Known Member
#15
#15
pit15 said:
To do it counting that would probably require a $500K bankroll and going around the country getting barred from every place, then going back around after the barrings expire (and hopefully you don't run out of places to go to before barrings at previous places expire).
Click to expand...
Barrings never actually "expire". But if you wait long enough, most bosses will usually FORGET who you are.
 
aslan

aslan

Well-Known Member
#17
#17
prankster said:
Great story Julie. I believe the casinos want people to think card counting is illegal -or you gotta be some kind of math genius who also has a photographic memory-or both to count cards! The truth is of course that all will go well for you at the tables so long as you don't mess with the sacred order of the cards!:joker:
Click to expand...
Whenever I'm asked if I can count cards, I always tell them I can get to about 12 cards and then I begin forgetting some of them. And with 6 decks of cards, that won't get you very far!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top