Counting your cards/dealer cards/running count
- Thread starter RDM
- Start date
First you have to practice at home. Turn the deck upside down and pull them off one at a time and count them down. When you can do that start pulling off two at a time and get that down. Move up to batches of cards of three and four until you can go thru the deck in no time. You have to be able to look at a players hand and know its total value. When the dealer is picking the cards up you switch into betting mode using the count to tell you how much to bet, sit out, or to leave the table. Practice......
RDM,
I'm fairly new to counting myself. The main thing that has helped me is being able to quickly glance at the cards and be able to cancel values. In other words, when I play shoe games, I do not even look at the first round of cards dealt. As he begins dealing the second card, I'm looking to either cancel the cards (K & 6 = 0) or add them up (2 + 3 = 2) (J + Q = -2). I'm also continuously repeating the running count in my head. The more you practice the easier it gets.
http://www.robtougher.com/ (Archive copy) has counting drills that will really help you to see what I mean about canceling cards. Good luck and stick with it!
I'm fairly new to counting myself. The main thing that has helped me is being able to quickly glance at the cards and be able to cancel values. In other words, when I play shoe games, I do not even look at the first round of cards dealt. As he begins dealing the second card, I'm looking to either cancel the cards (K & 6 = 0) or add them up (2 + 3 = 2) (J + Q = -2). I'm also continuously repeating the running count in my head. The more you practice the easier it gets.
http://www.robtougher.com/ (Archive copy) has counting drills that will really help you to see what I mean about canceling cards. Good luck and stick with it!
Another thought from a new guy. I've found that I don't continuously adjust the true count while the deal is happening. I match pairs and when the cards are out and the rest of the table is trying to figure out "how to play"...I'm processing and adjusting the true count. For me, it's a matter of practice. Repetition. Ultimately, counting should be as rote as basic strategy...not something you think about...just someting you DO. I'm not there yet. But I will be, job be damned. heheh
Thank you guys, I think Rob is close to what I'm trying to describe, but I'll rephrase my question (scenario). Simple head to head, sometimes you might each be dealt 4 or 5 cards, now do you simultaneously add the total sum of your cards and dealer cards with the running count, or do you momentarily drop the running count add the sum and revert back? I hope that makes sense.
Also a side note; I want to personally thank "The Mayor" for this forum, I trade commodities and the forums we have are a valuable link to "common ground."
RDM
Also a side note; I want to personally thank "The Mayor" for this forum, I trade commodities and the forums we have are a valuable link to "common ground."
RDM
This is how I do it, others might do it differently, people's brains work in different ways, you have to find the way that works easiest for you.
I keep the running count seperate. As already pointed out, You only need the running count (in order to convert to true count) twice a round. Once, when you are about to bet, and then when you play your hand.
So I add up all the exposed cards (canceling out pairs, etc.) I then take this total and add it to the running count (the count I was left with at the end of the last round, or whatever) which I store seperately in my brain. This becomes my new running count total. If any more cards are exposed, I take the total of them, and add/subtract it to the seperately stored running count.
There is a certain pace that cards get exposed in, and you get used to when to sum exposed cards, and when to add that sum to your running count.
Be careful, when the dealer flips a blackjack! Then you are going to see all the cards at once, very quickly, while the dealer scoops them all up. Remember to moan real loud like a ploppie when this happens.
I keep the running count seperate. As already pointed out, You only need the running count (in order to convert to true count) twice a round. Once, when you are about to bet, and then when you play your hand.
So I add up all the exposed cards (canceling out pairs, etc.) I then take this total and add it to the running count (the count I was left with at the end of the last round, or whatever) which I store seperately in my brain. This becomes my new running count total. If any more cards are exposed, I take the total of them, and add/subtract it to the seperately stored running count.
There is a certain pace that cards get exposed in, and you get used to when to sum exposed cards, and when to add that sum to your running count.
Be careful, when the dealer flips a blackjack! Then you are going to see all the cards at once, very quickly, while the dealer scoops them all up. Remember to moan real loud like a ploppie when this happens.
Re: Counting your cards: my way to avoid errors
I often revert to A de Moivre's method at times when I am fully alert. But bj can be rather dull for extended periods and I needed to reduce my counting errors. The following is my current approach which ultimately derived from somewhere in Ken Uston's fine book:
I use my left hand to store the count after all hands are collected. I let this hand rest on my thigh under the table and use a combination of finger and wrist positions. Whether the fingers are in a very slight push vs. pull state indicates whether the count is pos vs. neg, thumb=1..pinky=5, any one or two finger combination makes a number from 1-9, raised vs collapsed knuckle and wrist position takes care of tens. Sounds harder than it is. You can use flexed/extended toes within your rt and left shoe to mean the same thing as ten/twenty/pos/neg...whatever makes sense or is easier for you. My right hand does the chips and handles cards. (The left hand is usually useless anyway at the tables except for those who smoke.)
I start with my left hand storing the count at whatever is appropriate for the #decks. I adjust it during play for blackjacks and busts since these cards are removed from play. I only mentally adjust this stored count for those cards that are exposed/spied including my own hand and use this for the running count I play my own hand with. I adjust my left stored count for my own hand after I've already played it, whether it busts or not.
When a round is over I quickly count all the cards but my own, as the dealer reveals them. I do so based on zero and just add the positive or negative number to whatever my left hand's stored count is. My left hand now has the current count for making the initial bet so I now relax.
I find this method enables me to socialize while playing because I only have to count/work in spurts. Previously, I would try to keep track of which cards I haven't already counted while trying to remember the current count as some sort of mantra going through my head. I found I couldn't resist adjusting the count for cards I happened to spy; but then I couldn't always remember which cards I didn't spy/count and what the running count was before I lost track. If I got dealt multiple split pairs and had to make a series of quick bet/play decisions, I would lose the count more often than not. Now, having the most recent stored count available to me, this scenario allows me to revert to a good recent value and revise it to a nearly correct current value, even when I can't remember exactly what cards the dealer scarfed up when, let's say, my three split-pair hands busted, causing wholesale disruption to any logical thought processes(it happens!).
I often revert to A de Moivre's method at times when I am fully alert. But bj can be rather dull for extended periods and I needed to reduce my counting errors. The following is my current approach which ultimately derived from somewhere in Ken Uston's fine book:
I use my left hand to store the count after all hands are collected. I let this hand rest on my thigh under the table and use a combination of finger and wrist positions. Whether the fingers are in a very slight push vs. pull state indicates whether the count is pos vs. neg, thumb=1..pinky=5, any one or two finger combination makes a number from 1-9, raised vs collapsed knuckle and wrist position takes care of tens. Sounds harder than it is. You can use flexed/extended toes within your rt and left shoe to mean the same thing as ten/twenty/pos/neg...whatever makes sense or is easier for you. My right hand does the chips and handles cards. (The left hand is usually useless anyway at the tables except for those who smoke.)
I start with my left hand storing the count at whatever is appropriate for the #decks. I adjust it during play for blackjacks and busts since these cards are removed from play. I only mentally adjust this stored count for those cards that are exposed/spied including my own hand and use this for the running count I play my own hand with. I adjust my left stored count for my own hand after I've already played it, whether it busts or not.
When a round is over I quickly count all the cards but my own, as the dealer reveals them. I do so based on zero and just add the positive or negative number to whatever my left hand's stored count is. My left hand now has the current count for making the initial bet so I now relax.
I find this method enables me to socialize while playing because I only have to count/work in spurts. Previously, I would try to keep track of which cards I haven't already counted while trying to remember the current count as some sort of mantra going through my head. I found I couldn't resist adjusting the count for cards I happened to spy; but then I couldn't always remember which cards I didn't spy/count and what the running count was before I lost track. If I got dealt multiple split pairs and had to make a series of quick bet/play decisions, I would lose the count more often than not. Now, having the most recent stored count available to me, this scenario allows me to revert to a good recent value and revise it to a nearly correct current value, even when I can't remember exactly what cards the dealer scarfed up when, let's say, my three split-pair hands busted, causing wholesale disruption to any logical thought processes(it happens!).
playing head to head seems to be more challenging than at a tanble with other players. playing head to head. you are always "on" and things move pretty quickly. youy have to at the same time adjust the count and decide how to play your hand. it may be easier to practice in casino setting playing with other players first until you get more fluent.
Re: when in doubt about the count ask the dealer
I agree. Here is the conversation I heard a couple of weeks ago:
clueless ploppy: "Should I hit or stand on this 13 against your 3?"
smartass dealer: "It depends on what the count is."
clueless ploppy: "But what does the book say?"
smartass dealer: "Depends on which book you are talking about."
moral of the story: No tips for you.
I agree. Here is the conversation I heard a couple of weeks ago:
clueless ploppy: "Should I hit or stand on this 13 against your 3?"
smartass dealer: "It depends on what the count is."
clueless ploppy: "But what does the book say?"
smartass dealer: "Depends on which book you are talking about."
moral of the story: No tips for you.
ask dealer to deal slower so you can count easier
I once told a dealer (someone I have a great rapport with) to stop dealing so fast, he said "why", I said "because I can't count the cards when you deal so fast", so the dealer started exagerrating dealing really s-l-o-w. The pit boss, on hearing the word "count" started paying us a lot of attention, so I started counting outloud, "one, two, three, four....." counting EVERY card as it was dealt out, the dealer, the pit boss, and everyone at the table were laughing and laughing.
Steve
I once told a dealer (someone I have a great rapport with) to stop dealing so fast, he said "why", I said "because I can't count the cards when you deal so fast", so the dealer started exagerrating dealing really s-l-o-w. The pit boss, on hearing the word "count" started paying us a lot of attention, so I started counting outloud, "one, two, three, four....." counting EVERY card as it was dealt out, the dealer, the pit boss, and everyone at the table were laughing and laughing.
Steve