Craps

[assume_R]

the dice have no memory which is very true. But what do you think about players? Some players seem to get cold and stay cold. Some players seem to have the natural ability to throw. And some I noticed just suck. The one thing about craps is that the player influences the dice. How do you think this fact works with your statement?

Yes, it is not a "truly random" system, as the person can control how the dice land.

The problem is that if you watched these players for months, for tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of dice rolls, you'll realize that they the values of the dice they throw will average out to what's expected. And watching players for only a few minutes / hours at a time at a craps table isn't enough to know if they are getting some numbers more consistently than other numbers, even if they hold the dice the exact same way every time.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistical_randomness:
A sequence exhibiting a pattern is not thereby proved not statistically random. According to principles of Ramsey theory, sufficiently large objects must necessarily contain a given structure ("complete disorder is impossible").

So no matter what, "random patterns" will inevitably emerge. The idea that you can predict the future dice rolls from these patterns is what's erroneous.

 

[baccarat]

Well, AC has plenty of games with ASMs and also hand shuffle, but Del Park has mostly CSMs unless you want to play $50 or higher. There are CSMs in AC, so keep your eyes peeled, as they say. You do need to be able to distinguish between the ASMs and the CSMs. One way, is that with CSMs, the cards are dealt straight from the machine and fed back into it periodically, whereas with the ASMs, the cards are transferred to a shoe for dealing. I'd advise you learn a simple counting system like Hi-Lo or KO (Knockout).

Thanks for the info and advice. I did not know that AC used both ASMs and CSMs I just figured that all casinos used the same thing. If counting gives a player an advantage then why would the casinos want to give this advantage?

I will look into what you saida bout Hi-lo or KO. My problem is always trying to do the math in my head real quick under pressure. I saw a site advertising something called speed count, have you ever heard of that? Someone told me that it is not as good as they make it seem.

 

[baccarat]

I wish you luck Give yourself a couple hundred hours on a casino-comparable surface, near 10,000 rolls, and a strong tendency for muscle memory; and you can grind out a nice advantage.

But a "system" is just that. A way to manage your wagers, bankroll, and bet levels. Also, be careful not to mix a perceived skill by a player with confirmation bias...that is, seeing what you want to see in a player.

good luck

I was just kidding. I don't have that type of time. I would rather just play boring baccarat..
But this is what I'm thinking...I read somewhere that everything in the universe is energy. We are energy, plants are energy..everything is energy. If that is true then I would think (i'm no scientist) that I can use my energy to influence the energy of another object. So my new plan is to move the dice with my mind. Think it will work? I guess I would be like the jedi of craps.

 

[baccarat]

Yes, it is not a "truly random" system, as the person can control how the dice land.

The problem is that if you watched these players for months, for tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of dice rolls, you'll realize that they the values of the dice they throw will average out to what's expected. And watching players for only a few minutes / hours at a time at a craps table isn't enough to know if they are getting some numbers more consistently than other numbers, even if they hold the dice the exact same way every time.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistical_randomness:
A sequence exhibiting a pattern is not thereby proved not statistically random. According to principles of Ramsey theory, sufficiently large objects must necessarily contain a given structure ("complete disorder is impossible").

So no matter what, "random patterns" will inevitably emerge. The idea that you can predict the future dice rolls from these patterns is what's erroneous.

very good point. Thanks

 

[aslan]

Thanks for the info and advice. I did not know that AC used both ASMs and CSMs I just figured that all casinos used the same thing. If counting gives a player an advantage then why would the casinos want to give this advantage?

I will look into what you saida bout Hi-lo or KO. My problem is always trying to do the math in my head real quick under pressure. I saw a site advertising something called speed count, have you ever heard of that? Someone told me that it is not as good as they make it seem.

CSMs are showing up more and more across the country at the lower denomination tables. Often you will find both CSMs and hand-shuffle or ASM tables in the lower denominations at the same casino in order to accommodate the more discriminating players.

I believe that CSMs, besides incurring unwanted rental fees, cost casinos in terms of public relations. When the word gets out that top pro gamblers refuse to play at a certain casino, unskilled players follow suit even though their chances are not diminished by the CSMs. I think they reason if the pros don't feel the tables give the player a fair shot, they should avoid them as well.

ASMs are a problem for casinos because they cannot be bought, only rented, and that is an added cost they do not want. In some very fine AC casinos, like Borgata, they have abandoned the ASMs for blackjack in favor of hand-shuffled games.

I suspected you had your hands full with counting, and that is why I suggested KO. KO does not require any of the mental calculations that balanced systems do--no deck estimation, no arithmetic in the head. KO is a legitimate and complete counting system that will give you a decided advantage when applied properly. Everything you will need to know is provided in the Knockout Blackjack book, which can be ordered from this site.
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[ChefJJ]

So my new plan is to move the dice with my mind. Think it will work? I guess I would be like the jedi of craps.

Can't help you there :grin: Whatever brings home the bacon, grasshopper :joker:

 

[baccarat]

CSMs are showing up more and more across the country at the lower denomination tables. Often you will find both CSMs and hand-shuffle or ASM tables in the lower denominations at the same casino in order to accommodate the more discriminating players.

I believe that CSMs, besides incurring unwanted rental fees, cost casinos in terms of public relations. When the word gets out that top pro gamblers refuse to play at a certain casino, unskilled players follow suit even though their chances are not diminished by the CSMs. I think they reason if the pros don't feel the tables give the player a fair shot, they should avoid them as well.

ASMs are a problem for casinos because they cannot be bought, only rented, and that is an added cost they do not want. In some very fine AC casinos, like Borgata, they have abandoned the ASMs for blackjack in favor of hand-shuffled games.

I suspected you had your hands full with counting, and that is why I suggested KO. KO does not require any of the mental calculations that balanced systems do--no deck estimation, no arithmetic in the head. KO is a legitimate and complete counting system that will give you a decided advantage when applied properly. Everything you will need to know is provided in the Knockout Blackjack book, which can be ordered from this site.
View attachment 6841

thanks, I did some research on it and has great reviews. I think I'm going to buy it. I wish they had an ebook version so I can start reading now.

Thanks a lot for all of your help. I didn't know that such a simple method was out there.

do you happen to know how Harrah's Chester or PA sands plans to shuffle to the cards? Has any info been released on that?

 

[aslan]

thanks, I did some research on it and has great reviews. I think I'm going to buy it. I wish they had an ebook version so I can start reading now.

Thanks a lot for all of your help. I didn't know that such a simple method was out there.

do you happen to know how Harrah's Chester or PA sands plans to shuffle to the cards? Has any info been released on that?

I don't know. Several here are tracking the latest information on PA openings. Have you looked in the threads in the Eastern US category, such as http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=17921 ?

 

[pogostick]

I have decided to broaden my horizons and try some new casino games outside of baccarat, and blackjack. I came across this site beatcasinocraps.com, has anybody has any experience with this system? The seller says that it is built around a safe and simple bet. The price does not look too bad and I am considering buying it, but I want to know if anybody has had any sort of experience with it before I do so. I contacted him and he said that he has a unique way of viewing the craps table which allows the bet to work. If I can get into the casino, make a couple of units and get out on a consistent basis then i would be more than happy. Maybe I can do that with this system? I think that a simple and safe system would allow me to do that. Are there any reviews on this system? I know a lot of system sellers are con-artists but maybe this guy is not????????

thanks

Baccarat STOP!! There is not secret way you can beat craps. The lowest you can get the house advantage is on the pass or dont pass and take as much odds that is allowed. The more odds you can take lowers the house advantage . Single odds will give the house .5 advantage & you can work it down from there. placing the 6 & 8 is the next best bet. Never play the middle . I am not superstitous ,but I will not bet on a person with short stubby fingers . Women ,orientals & drunks are the best shooters. Kidding >RIGHT!!! Good luck ,but throw the book away. POGO

 

[baccarat]

Baccarat STOP!! There is not secret way you can beat craps. The lowest you can get the house advantage is on the pass or dont pass and take as much odds that is allowed. The more odds you can take lowers the house advantage . Single odds will give the house .5 advantage & you can work it down from there. placing the 6 & 8 is the next best bet. Never play the middle . I am not superstitous ,but I will not bet on a person with short stubby fingers . Women ,orientals & drunks are the best shooters. Kidding >RIGHT!!! Good luck ,but throw the book away. POGO

haha thanks. I am sticking with baccarat until I get that counting book in.

 

[RightClawSouth]

I'm probably repeating a lot of stuff that's already been said but here goes anyway:

1. Dice setting is extremely difficult, very few people have the dexterity and patience to be able to eek out an advantage doing it.

2. You saw people who seemed to win and others who seemed to lose. Your sample size was WAY too small to determine anything from that information.

3. The chance that the person who seemed to win was actually dice setting and had an edge is infinitesimally small.

4. Please understand that if you are playing craps or baccarat you are trading your money for the fun of playing the game. You do not have an edge. (Technically baccarat is countable but for a very very slim margin)

 

[ChefJJ]

1. Dice setting is extremely difficult, very few people have the dexterity and patience to be able to eek out an advantage doing it.


3. The chance that the person who seemed to win was actually dice setting and had an edge is infinitesimally small.

Very good points, RCS. When at the dice table, finding skilled shooters is absolutely tough (unless you know they're going to be there :grin. There are a few things that should tip an observer off:

a. consistent set-up "routine" for come-out and point-cycle phases...that is, are the same numbers being aligned on the rotational axis?

b. infrequent scattering of the dice as a result of the throw...do the dice appear to be "under control" much more often than not when it comes to the location of landing, distance/strength of release, interplay with the rear wall?

c. are the results of the dice aligning with the shooter's wagers (probably the least reliable aspect, as some skilled shooters do not have the discipline to strategically bet his/her advantage)?

In my opinion, b. is the absolute most important of the three.

For whatever that's all worth This is the Voodoo section, after all :laugh:

good luck :joker:

 

[bigred]

Dice Influencing is not a system, it is a skill that can be learnt.

There are a few sites out there that are dedicated to DI. Some forums are free

and you can pick up information without spending a penny/Dime.

Learn as much about a subject for free ,before you dive in and buy.

 

[Jack_Black]

There are a few sites out there that are dedicated to DI. Some forums are free

Can you suggest some forums? All I've found are the worthless systems sites.

 

[Dyepaintball12]

Can you suggest some forums? All I've found are the worthless systems sites.

Golden Touch has one run by Frank Scoblete. Just email him saying basically anything ("I've read your books", "Your awesome", "I like pizza") and he will give you a free month membership.

I had one and it was pretty cool

http://goldentouchcraps.com/

 

[bigred]

Axis Power Craps has a semi private board for free with loads of info on DI.all given freely by some of the most respected Dice Influencers.

For a small fee you can join the members forum which is dedicated to arranging casino hook ups, and discussing casino/ table conditions.

Dicecoach.com is a good site, which for a fee you can watch short instructional videos online covering many aspects of the game .

I found these 2 sites more reasonable than the site mentioned above.

One book i would recommend that i got through the gamblers bookstore is " The crap shooting bible " .Author Tino Gambino. it is pretty much recognised in certain fields as being the most definative book on the subject.

Have fun in your search for knowledge.

 

[ChefJJ]

Another Very Solid Title

http://www.amazon.com/Mad-Professors-Crapshooting-Bible/dp/0935926275

The Mad Professor's Crapshooting Bible is a very good one as well. I've been reading his articles and snippets for quite a while, and the book is a good compilation and expansion on some interesting real-world insights. I find its use to be more about the in-casino end rather than theory numbers (which are in there).

Although I cannot attest to the quality of material on Heavy's Axis Power Craps pay site, I will say that Heavy and a several other regulars there were instrumental in my knowledge base development. About 10 years ago or so, there was an early craps message board that stimulated a lot of good information about the DI subject. That's was spurred my interest originally, so there's always a bit of love for those guys.

Another point about Heavy is that I believe he is a darksider, so there should be decent content on AP craps from the don'ts.

good luck :joker: