CSM question

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Rck2222

New Member
#1
#1
The casinos I've played at almost always use CSM (onetwosix i think?). I play for fun, use just basic strategy, and spread my bets to "just have fun". Having said that, the tiny place I'm visiting now has three 6deck $10-500 CSM tables, and playing there the last two nights the dealers sometimes throw the cards into the shuffler every 2-3 hands and sometimes they let it run 50-60% through the deck.

I actually prefer the constant shuffle since I'm not counting... but when they randomly let the deck run deep I'm thinking I should maybe use a simple Hilo count just so I'm not doubling with no tens left :p

All of that is beside the point. Question is, the cards placed into the shuffler, do they immediately become available? Or is there say one round where the cards are still shuffling?

Thanks!
 
T

tthree

Banned
#3
#3
Rck2222 said:
The casinos I've played at almost always use CSM (onetwosix i think?). I play for fun, use just basic strategy, and spread my bets to "just have fun". Having said that, the tiny place I'm visiting now has three 6deck $10-500 CSM tables, and playing there the last two nights the dealers sometimes throw the cards into the shuffler every 2-3 hands and sometimes they let it run 50-60% through the deck.

I actually prefer the constant shuffle since I'm not counting... but when they randomly let the deck run deep I'm thinking I should maybe use a simple Hilo count just so I'm not doubling with no tens left :p

All of that is beside the point. Question is, the cards placed into the shuffler, do they immediately become available? Or is there say one round where the cards are still shuffling?

Thanks!
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I suspect they are not randomly letting the deck run deep. They probably have a counter dealing and if the count is negative they allow it to run deep because you are at a bigger disadvantage. You should learn to count so you know if they are trying to cheat you.
 
UK-21

UK-21

Well-Known Member
#4
#4
Sonny said:
It is possible for cards inserted into the machine to be dealt on the next round.

-Sonny-
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Do you know this for sure? Bearing in mind the way the things work, I don't believe this to be the case - I think there must be some latency?

Having said that, delaying putting half a deck back in I can't seeing creating either an advantage or disadvantage, unless all 26ish cards are tens/low cards?
 
I

itrack

Well-Known Member
#5
#5
tthree said:
I suspect they are not randomly letting the deck run deep. They probably have a counter dealing and if the count is negative they allow it to run deep because you are at a bigger disadvantage. You should learn to count so you know if they are trying to cheat you.
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Aahahah I hope your not serious.
 
Dyepaintball12

Dyepaintball12

Well-Known Member
#6
#6
tthree said:
I suspect they are not randomly letting the deck run deep. They probably have a counter dealing and if the count is negative they allow it to run deep because you are at a bigger disadvantage. You should learn to count so you know if they are trying to cheat you.
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That's literally retarded.
 
Sonny

Sonny

Well-Known Member
#7
#7
UK-21 said:
Do you know this for sure?
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Yes, there are situations where it can happen. I'm not saying that there isn't an average latency, but seeing the same card on the next round is possible.

-Sonny-
 
T

tthree

Banned
#9
#9
Dyepaintball12 said:
That's literally retarded.
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After seeing someone else post a local casino was doing this I watched the next time I was heading for the shoe game at that store, DP. As long as the discards gave the house a bigger edge they accumulated up to 3 rounds. If the gave the player the slight boost they all went back into the CSM immediately. Anyone dumb enough to play a CSM was totally clueless that the casino was pinching a tiny bit extra out of them.
 
A

AussiePlayer

Well-Known Member
#10
#10
The more often cards are fed into the machine, the more opportunities there are for the machine to jam. This is why many places let a certain number of cards pile up in the discard tray before replacing them. Preferential Shuffling on a CSM is absolutely absurd!
 
S

stopgambling

Well-Known Member
#11
#11
Ha ha ha ,i would have to agree to that.Wish they have those very low h.e. CSM with rebates and or comp ,then if +ev after all that ,i would mind playing !!!
 
T

tthree

Banned
#12
#12
AussiePlayer said:
The more often cards are fed into the machine, the more opportunities there are for the machine to jam. This is why many places let a certain number of cards pile up in the discard tray before replacing them. Preferential Shuffling on a CSM is absolutely absurd!
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That's what I thought when I read the other guy's post. But since the store he mentioned, DP, is the closest to my house, the next time I was there I looked for myself. Sure enough if the first round had lots of low cards and no aces it went back in the machine. I thought how little this was worth and thought how ridiculous it was. Then I looked around. One and a half dozen tables all full doing the same thing. They hit huge numbers in no time at all. It would be worth squat to us (it would take forever to play enough hands to be significant) but they get 126 hands per round. That's 8,820 hands per hour at 70 hands/hour. You see large numbers in no time at that rate.
 
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T

tthree

Banned
#14
#14
I don't play the damned CSMs. If they want to do it it's no skin off my nose. I doubt to many dealers understand why it is the procedure anyway. I ask dealers in shoe games why certain procedures exist and most are clueless. After a few dealer's cycle through I usually get an answer.
 
S

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#15
#15
tthree said:
I don't play the damned CSMs. If they want to do it it's no skin off my nose. I doubt to many dealers understand why it is the procedure anyway. I ask dealers in shoe games why certain procedures exist and most are clueless. After a few dealer's cycle through I usually get an answer.
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At what point are you going to realize your credibility here is pretty well shot?
 
A

AussiePlayer

Well-Known Member
#16
#16
tthree said:
I don't play the damned CSMs. If they want to do it it's no skin off my nose. I doubt to many dealers understand why it is the procedure anyway. I ask dealers in shoe games why certain procedures exist and most are clueless. After a few dealer's cycle through I usually get an answer.
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If they're that clueless, do you really think they can count?
 
T

tthree

Banned
#18
#18
Ah duh, me see faces and aces. Me put cards in discard. Me see no faces and aces me put all cards in machine. Hard to train. I don't think so. The clueless is as to why you do this.
 
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S

Sucker

Well-Known Member
#20
#20
Sonny said:
It is possible for cards inserted into the machine to be dealt on the next round.

-Sonny-
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Without going into any detail; I can verify that this is true. ;) However; it's not possible for it to be the FIRST card of the round (obviously).
 
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