Daily Swings in the thousands

[matt21]

It is hard to emotionally process wins and losses of several thousand dollars in a session. The losses seem so much harder than the wins.

I think i underestimate how tiring it is when you are having $3,000-$4,000 intra-session swings, sometimes betting more than $1,000 in a round with splits and doubles, and when you are up (or down) $5,000+ at the end of the day.

I guess it all becomes part of the job and part of the routine? Does it become easier?

I am getting used to only thinking about the EV for each hour, session and day (I keep very detailed records to calculate all my EV's), rather than the actual result. This also motivates me to continoulsy optimise the playing conditions. Is this a good approach to take?

 

[bj bob]

Just think in "units"

It is hard to emotionally process wins and losses of several thousand dollars in a session. The losses seem so much harder than the wins.

I think i underestimate how tiring it is when you are having $3,000-$4,000 intra-session swings, sometimes betting more than $1,000 in a round with splits and doubles, and when you are up (or down) $5,000+ at the end of the day.

I guess it all becomes part of the job and part of the routine? Does it become easier?

I am getting used to only thinking about the EV for each hour, session and day (I keep very detailed records to calculate all my EV's), rather than the actual result. This also motivates me to continoulsy optimise the playing conditions. Is this a good approach to take?

The best way to overcome this mindset is simply to focus on the mechanics of the game. If your original bet was one chip and you are dealt a pair of aces then your next response will be to add another chip to the second ace. It's as simple as that. It makes no difference if the original bet was one red chip ($5) or black ($100), just do your thing. If your session ends with an 18 chip surplus, then you've won $90. If they're black, then you're up $1800. No need to even think about it during your playing time. That should have been considered long before you even sit down to play as to your bankroll requirements, risk of ruin etc. If you have to sweat every bet, then you shouldn't be playing at that level. It's very simple really, at least it should be.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

It is hard to emotionally process wins and losses of several thousand dollars in a session. The losses seem so much harder than the wins.

I think i underestimate how tiring it is when you are having $3,000-$4,000 intra-session swings, sometimes betting more than $1,000 in a round with splits and doubles, and when you are up (or down) $5,000+ at the end of the day.

I guess it all becomes part of the job and part of the routine? Does it become easier?

I am getting used to only thinking about the EV for each hour, session and day (I keep very detailed records to calculate all my EV's), rather than the actual result. This also motivates me to continoulsy optimise the playing conditions. Is this a good approach to take?

No, it doesn't become easier. The only thing that makes it easier is lowering your bet relative to your bankroll/income. Anything short of full Kelly will be stressful, and even with a full Kelly bankroll the losing streaks can get really boring.

 

[EasyRhino]

Wait, bets SHORT of full kelly will be stressfull? Bets equal to or over it would be much more stressful!

Anyway, the two ways I can it can make it easier to process the swings are to a) be rich, or b) treat your betting and bankroll more abtractly. Maybe quantify it as units, or at least express everything as % of bankroll. Maybe.

But ultimately there's a comfort level involved. I simply don't think I can take betting any more than my current levels.

 

[stophon]

easyrhino update your blog post

 

[kewljason]

It is hard to emotionally process wins and losses of several thousand dollars in a session. The losses seem so much harder than the wins.
I think i underestimate how tiring it is when you are having $3,000-$4,000 intra-session swings, sometimes betting more than $1,000 in a round with splits and doubles, and when you are up (or down) $5,000+ at the end of the day.
I guess it all becomes part of the job and part of the routine? Does it become easier?
I am getting used to only thinking about the EV for each hour, session and day (I keep very detailed records to calculate all my EV's), rather than the actual result. This also motivates me to continoulsy optimise the playing conditions. Is this a good approach to take?

Personally, I have always found the emotional part of the bankroll swings to be, by far the most difficult part of AP. I always try to keep track of wins and losses in terms of units, as easyRhino suggusted rather than money. I also think in terms of EV for each session as you suggusted. After big "swing" sessions, win or lose, I always remind myself that I really made the EV times hours played. If I won, that I'm just temporarily holding extra money and of course after a loss that the casino is just temporarily holding my money. But, being human, this only helps so much. It's at these times I find myself re-reading many texts and information concerning bankroll requirement and why we need large bankrolls to substain these swings. I like to think that each time gets a bit easier, but I'm not sure it really does.

 

[creeping panther]

Matt 21

It is hard to emotionally process wins and losses of several thousand dollars in a session. The losses seem so much harder than the wins.

I think i underestimate how tiring it is when you are having $3,000-$4,000 intra-session swings, sometimes betting more than $1,000 in a round with splits and doubles, and when you are up (or down) $5,000+ at the end of the day.

I guess it all becomes part of the job and part of the routine? Does it become easier?

I am getting used to only thinking about the EV for each hour, session and day (I keep very detailed records to calculate all my EV's), rather than the actual result. This also motivates me to continoulsy optimise the playing conditions. Is this a good approach to take?

Matt,

My biggest win and most devastating loss came back to back and it changed my approach to the game forever.

Many years ago at the end of a very fine fiscal year for my company I decided to take a trip and visit a River Boat that had a very, very fine game. I was feeling very positive and on top of the world. I checked into their hotel, I was high on life, I still remember how great I felt, what a feeling...and I sat at the HL room BJ table and played like a machine, getting alot of attention and special treatment. I won $39,000 that day. After those long sessions I was comped a super dinner..... wandered... turned down a few offers from some knock out women and crashed in my room.

The next day I got up with the same great feelings, had a nice light breakfast, went back to my room and went through my rituals, shower, shave, study, burn some Sage mixed with dried Rosebuds and Rose Bush from my Land, waft the smoke over me, apply some of the ashes to my feet so that I may walk there again...and then to the table to again play like a "BJ Warrior.. Machine".

This time it was a disaster, after many session that day I had lost back $37,000. The feelings I had were brutal, true I had won overall, but....that 2 days changed my strategy forever. And at the end of my last session I was told by a gentleman accompanied by two plainclothes security that I could not play BJ there again, but anything else. He then told me to go to the restaurant and all food and drinks were on the house as well as the room.

Shortly thereafter it came to me in an "experience" that I was meant to avoid play at all casinos except those owned by Native Americans, that my money if lost was not to support those other casinos, that I was to support my people and that that was where I was to go. So that is where I have stayed, for the vast majority of my playing time.

CP

 

[matt21]

hey thanks for all the replies and advice! that's very appreciated.

ok, i have never had a +$39k day! my biggest session win and loss were both around $5k, the biggest win in one day was around $10k. i think i am fairly much focusing on the units rather than the dollars but i guess at the end of the day $5,000 is still $5,000. i have made sure that bankroll can sustain my betting ramps but thank you for reminding of this.

it seems from all your comments that i am thinking about my game in the right way - i.e. focusing on units and EV. I have got my game to a level where my hourly EV is $75-$100, so this way my motivation is high for playing. Playing for 6 hours in day then adds $450-$600 to my career EV which is quite acceptable.

thanks again everyone and good luck at the tables! go get them!

 

[vingtetun]

Matt,

My biggest win and most devastating loss came back to back and it changed my approach to the game forever.

Many years ago at the end of a very fine fiscal year for my company I decided to take a trip and visit a River Boat that had a very, very fine game. I was feeling very positive and on top of the world. I checked into their hotel, I was high on life, I still remember how great I felt, what a feeling...and I sat at the HL room BJ table and played like a machine, getting alot of attention and special treatment. I won $39,000 that day. After those long sessions I was comped a super dinner..... wandered... turned down a few offers from some knock out women and crashed in my room.

The next day I got up with the same great feelings, had a nice light breakfast, went back to my room and went through my rituals, shower, shave, study, burn some Sage mixed with dried Rosebuds and Rose Bush from my Land, waft the smoke over me, apply some of the ashes to my feet so that I may walk there again...and then to the table to again play like a "BJ Warrior.. Machine".

This time it was a disaster, after many session that day I had lost back $37,000. The feelings I had were brutal, true I had won overall, but....that 2 days changed my strategy forever. And at the end of my last session I was told by a gentleman accompanied by two plainclothes security that I could not play BJ there again, but anything else. He then told me to go to the restaurant and all food and drinks were on the house as well as the room.

Shortly thereafter it came to me in an "experience" that I was meant to avoid play at all casinos except those owned by Native Americans, that my money if lost was not to support those other casinos, that I was to support my people and that that was where I was to go. So that is where I have stayed, for the vast majority of my playing time.

CP

That is a very interesting story. I bet your people are very happy that the white face does share your approach of only playing in casinos owned by their people as they would make very little money. Also, if you only play engine casinos and you are an AP, aren't you actually taking money from your own people in the long run and wouldn't it be better to take money from the white man.

To be clear Panther you have helped me in the past and I do not mean to demean you or your decisions on where to play but I just don't understand your reasoning or I missed the point of that last paragraph which is very possible as I just stayed up all night with an infant.:cry:

 

[Automatic Monkey]

...Shortly thereafter it came to me in an "experience" that I was meant to avoid play at all casinos except those owned by Native Americans, that my money if lost was not to support those other casinos, that I was to support my people and that that was where I was to go. So that is where I have stayed, for the vast majority of my playing time.

CP

I appreciate your appreciation for your ancestry.

How do you feel about people who only discover they are Indians as soon as they have an opportunity to build a casino? Amerind ancestry is common even among Americans who appear to be white or black, and it's great if they explore that part of their history, attend powwows, preserve the language and traditions. But to say "Hey I'm 1/32 Indian, now I can create a tribe with no history, claim some land, build a casino and get rich" is something I would consider degrading to American Indians, especially when said by someone who never identified with being one before.

 

[creeping panther]

Monkey

I appreciate your appreciation for your ancestry.

How do you feel about people who only discover they are Indians as soon as they have an opportunity to build a casino? Amerind ancestry is common even among Americans who appear to be white or black, and it's great if they explore that part of their history, attend powwows, preserve the language and traditions. But to say "Hey I'm 1/32 Indian, now I can create a tribe with no history, claim some land, build a casino and get rich" is something I would consider degrading to American Indians, especially when said by someone who never identified with being one before.

I know of whom you speak. You can for sure make that argument.

CP

 

[creeping panther]

Ving

That is a very interesting story. I bet your people are very happy that the white face does share your approach of only playing in casinos owned by their people as they would make very little money. Also, if you only play engine casinos and you are an AP, aren't you actually taking money from your own people in the long run and wouldn't it be better to take money from the white man.

To be clear Panther you have helped me in the past and I do not mean to demean you or your decisions on where to play but I just don't understand your reasoning or I missed the point of that last paragraph which is very possible as I just stayed up all night with an infant.:cry:

Engine...:laugh: I think you meant Injun . That is OK but probably a term to avoid

Yes, an anomaly, but it is what I am to do. I wondered who would be first to notice it. It is what it is. It is what the "Experience " revealed. But I am not out to do harm, a casino will take the action posted, they know their limits, if I am to lose it is to be there. I am only taking what the "Other" has lost, and that is far and away more substantial.

And of course, as you said, there is that last paragraph.

An infant, well nice, I wish the best to you and child. Give the child a second name, a spirit name.

CP

 

[shadroch]

Myself, and hundreds of thousands of other people woke up this morning to discover that we are Canadian. I'm still not going to play their shitty games.

 

[sagefr0g]

...Yes, an anomaly, but it is what I am to do. I wondered who would be first to notice it. It is what it is. It is what the "Experience " revealed. But I am not out to do harm....

well, i didn't catch it but thanks to vingtetun i see it now as well. it's interesting, reminds me of something i've been thinking a little about.

nat geo had an interesting program where these killer whales would surround a gray whale calf as a series of teams, while the mother gray whale did what she could to protect the calf. one team would rest while the other team would repeatedly leap out of the water and dive down on the calf, bashing it over and over again then the other team would take over. you could tell the science researchers felt bad about sitting back and letting it just happen. the narrator said an interesting thing however, about how this was one of the things the killer whales had to do in order to live. sad for the gray whale calf, a meal for the killer whales. it's a kind of a theme or mechanism of how nature works. it's what killer whales do, what lions, tigers and all do.
me i just know and have in person seen animals such as these domesticated by people, bond with them and have harmless and loyal relationships. like my cat, i've seen it make mince meat out of a rabbit but this cat is with me as loyal and friendly as can be. i shudder to think what my cat could do to me if it were the size of a lion, lol.
but who knows, i just think that nature overall in the scheme of things has no evil to it, but in fact a certain nobility about it and yet how it all plays out maybe not so much an anomaly as it's a mystery. but in nature it seems a balance is struck where the individual parts and what they do work out as a positive influence for the whole in a symbiotic way.

 

[creeping panther]

Wise Won,

well, i didn't catch it but thanks to vingtetun i see it now as well. it's interesting, reminds me of something i've been thinking a little about.

nat geo had an interesting program where these killer whales would surround a gray whale calf as a series of teams, while the mother gray whale did what she could to protect the calf. one team would rest while the other team would repeatedly leap out of the water and dive down on the calf, bashing it over and over again then the other team would take over. you could tell the science researchers felt bad about sitting back and letting it just happen. the narrator said an interesting thing however, about how this was one of the things the killer whales had to do in order to live. sad for the gray whale calf, a meal for the killer whales. it's a kind of a theme or mechanism of how nature works. it's what killer whales do, what lions, tigers and all do.
me i just know and have in person seen animals such as these domesticated by people, bond with them and have harmless and loyal relationships. like my cat, i've seen it make mince meat out of a rabbit but this cat is with me as loyal and friendly as can be. i shudder to think what my cat could do to me if it were the size of a lion, lol.
but who knows, i just think that nature overall in the scheme of things has no evil to it, but in fact a certain nobility about it and yet how it all plays out maybe not so much an anomaly as it's a mystery. but in nature it seems a balance is struck where the individual parts and what they do work out as a positive influence for the whole in a symbiotic way.

Well, what you have just said is most interesting and well put, as usual.

Your Great Cat, loyal and beautiful it is, and the rabbit incident, I often do think of that. It is just how it is, as you said. And the documentary on HBO called "Cat Dancers", if you have not seen it, try and catch it. Very Strange.

CP

 

[zengrifter]

Shortly thereafter it came to me in an "experience" that I was meant to avoid play at all casinos except those owned by Native Americans, that my money if lost was not to support those other casinos, that I was to support my people and that that was where I was to go. So that is where I have stayed, for the vast majority of my playing time.

So what do they call an Indian who advantage-plays other Indians? zg

 

[creeping panther]

Zen

So what do they call an Indian who advantage-plays other Indians? zg

I don't know any "Indians", I do know Native Americans, and alot love to play BJ, some are very good. I guess they, the "Native Americans", are called.... Tribal. I am not out to do harm, in fact in certain places I will take it very easy because I know the tribe is not rich. Other places the tribe is very rich, and may not treat people well, they forgot where they came from and who they are.

CP

 

[mathman]

The tribe in our area struggled financially before they got into the casino biz. My friends and I used to do volunteer work for them to raise money for thier fire dept. and other things. Now I visit their casino and try to liberate as much money as I can. I view it like this, a casino needs winners. Without winners eventually people would stop going. When I'm able to win while the others are losing it gives the ploppies hope. The ploppies invest more money and the casino gets most of that. Certainly more than I take from them. It's a win-win for both of us....JtMM

 

[bj bob]

So what do they call an Indian who advantage-plays other Indians? zg

The Chief.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

I don't know any "Indians", I do know Native Americans, and alot love to play BJ, some are very good...

In my part of the US an American Indian calls himself an Indian. A "Native American" is traditionally something else, it means anyone who is not an immigrant and it used to mean a WASP.

The worst are the ones who start throwing weaker people out of the tribe after they build the casino so there are fewer to share the money with.