DEALER Bankroll

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colonelsanders

New Member
#1
#1
I am working as a contractor in Afghanistan. Myself and a couple friends would like to start a weekly Blackjack game. We live on a compound with a large # of other contractors, with no place for them to spend their substantial salaries. We would be the DEALER. One of us would deal, while one of the others would observe and shuffle. The min bet would be $1 or $2 and the max bet will be $25. Each session would last around 6 hours, and the table will be full at least 90% of the time. If we are going to bankroll a 7 player game, what do you think our starting bankroll should be? We'll have about $1000 in equipment. Again, we won't be playing against the dealer, we'll be the dealer. Any insight you can give would be appreciated.
Thanks, Gary
 
jaygruden

jaygruden

Well-Known Member
#2
#2
You are the house. You set the table conditions and rules of the game. While I'm not a mathematician, your answer depends on how many decks you are using and what rules of the game you set, and what kind of pen you give. With this info you can then determine what your house advantage is and the SD. This coupled with how much you expect in daily/weekly "action" can be used to figure your required bankroll to avoid going bust and getting to the long term. You could sim this as long as you have all the info.

That being said I would think it needs to be very large to ride out the variance and meet the action. With 7 players playing for 6 hours straight, assuming that all average out at $12 per hand bet x 7 = $84 per hand x 45 hands per hour (rookie dealer & # of decks & pen?) = $3780 in action per hour x 6 hrs = $22,680 put in action over a 6 hour session (and more than this when factoring in splits & doubles, when allowed). Again, math is not my forte, so I am just giving opinions based on a lot of unknowns.

You need to do everything that the AP's here are doing but in reverse.
Good luck on your venture and watch out for card counters or they will bankrupt you if table conditions are right. :grin:
 
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shadroch

Well-Known Member
#3
#3
I'd imagine 10,000 to 15,000 would mostly cover it, as long as you'd be able to give a marker on the occasional big winner.
 
Zero

Zero

Well-Known Member
#4
#4
You should read this thread.

In order to answer your question accurately you need to know the HE for the game you're planning to deal and what RoR you're willing to tolerate. Remember that a calculated HE is based on a player playing perfect BS. If your players are not skilled the HE will be much higher than the calculated one. Also try to determine what you expect the average total amount wagered each round to be. If all 7 spots will always have $25 on them then it will obviously be $175. But it may be more likely that players will play the minimum most of the time, increasing to $10 now and then, and rarely betting table max. You may decide that the avg amount wagered each round is closer to $30 or $40.

0
 
Southpaw

Southpaw

Well-Known Member
#5
#5
Although (certain) APers often play with a higher edge than the casino does, keep in mind that the house hits its NO many times in a given night. The fact that you'll have "x" players playing "y" dollars per round is greatly preferred over having one player playing x*y dollars per round. The house hits its long term results much sooner this way.

My two cents on the subject.

Spaw
 
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Machinist

Well-Known Member
#6
#6
I want in!!!!! Is this a legal gig there?? Just wondering , are there any laws there on gambling? How about marijuana??? Alchohol??
This is a very interesting. Hmmmmmmm
Don't know about bankroll issues, but i'd bet 20g would more than cover it. I'm sure BJ's would pay 6/5, and all the rest of the crappy rules to go with it...

Machinist
 
S

Sucker

Well-Known Member
#7
#7
It doesn't matter WHAT your BR is - just use whatever you can scrape up. If you run out of money, do what the casinos do when THEY run out of money - close the table for the night!

This seems to me to be the LEAST of your worries. Afghanistan is still a very conservative country, even though the Taliban is not in charge anymore. I'd hate to see what will happen when the Afghan authorities get wind of your operation! :eek: And don't think they WON'T find out! Sooner or later, you ARE going to have a sore loser who WILL rat you out. It never fails. :(
 
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shadroch

Well-Known Member
#8
#8
Sucker said:
It doesn't matter WHAT your BR is - just use whatever you can scrape up. If you run out of money, do what the casinos do when THEY run out of money - close the table for the night!

This seems to me to be the LEAST of your worries. Afghanistan is still a very conservative country, even though the Taliban is not in charge anymore. I'd hate to see what will happen when the Afghan authorities get wind of your operation! :eek: And don't think they WON'T find out! Sooner or later, you ARE going to have a sore loser who WILL rat you out. It never fails. :(
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On my last visit, contractors had complete immunity from Afgan law.
 
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Sucker

Well-Known Member
#9
#9
shadroch said:
On my last visit, contractors had complete immunity from Afgan law.
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COMPLETE immunity? Like in..... That sore loser can just KILL you and TAKE his money back? :grin: :grin:
 
A

AussiePlayer

Well-Known Member
#10
#10
Are you working on a US base? If so I believe certain US laws would apply as they apply to the military members serving there (whilst you're on the base at least).

If not, there are NO laws what so ever. Afghan law does not apply, US (or your own national law) does not apply, the Geneva Convention does not apply, the Hague Convention does not apply.
 
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Tarzan

Tarzan

Banned
#11
#11
Think like a casino

You guys are thinking of it as players rather than as a casino. The players put up their end of it in cold, hard cash. The casino on the other hand puts up their end in chips! So... here I am putting up my pieces of clay with a theoretical value up against your cash and I only pay out actual cash on your net win. I have relatively unlimited pieces of clay and you have limited cash in other words. When was the last time you were at a casino and every chip tray at every table got cleaned out? When was the last time you were at a casino and the chip tray at any given table got cleaned out?

A casino cash bank that matches the value and quantity of chips in the tray has you covered... period. Let's say you set up a game with a .63 or so house advantage with six decks, S17, DOA, etc. You have the advantage even if all your players know and play perfect basic strategy. Should they not play perfect basic strategy your house advantage can easily go up to 2 or 3%! You guys are all talking as if every one of these people playing is a card-counter or something and I highly doubt that is the case.

In the overall with six or seven players, although I would have cash on hand backing the chips in the tray, in the mathematic probabilities of it the bank/dealer is going to come out on top and you won't have to come up with any cash at all. You are putting up pieces of clay, they are putting up cash. You only pay out cash if they win.

On another note... uhm... I seriously doubt a group of the local goat herders are going to declare Jihad on a private blackjack game within the confines of a US compound. I think the chances of this are just as likely as the chances of Rita Coolidge and Crystal Gayle showing up during the game to do an impromptu duet.
 
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shadroch

Well-Known Member
#12
#12
Sucker said:
COMPLETE immunity? Like in..... That sore loser can just KILL you and TAKE his money back? :grin: :grin:
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From Afgan law. Complete immunity. From NATO and US law, not so much.
But no one is going to get bent out of shape over a card game unless the house is cheating. Then you are subject to what is known as rough justice.
 
jaygruden

jaygruden

Well-Known Member
#13
#13
Good points Tarzan! But you should still be ready for a "fill" of your "pieces of clay" to be able to keep playing to recoup a bad swing against your favor and have enough cash to back up the "fill", unless you plan on shutting the table down when your "clay tray" is empty. You would then be OOB until you build up your BR again. Probably very low risk of that as Tarzan says, you will likely close shop nightly to the good.
 
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shadroch

Well-Known Member
#14
#14
Tarzan said:
You guys are thinking of it as players rather than as a casino. The players put up their end of it in cold, hard cash. The casino on the other hand puts up their end in chips! So... here I am putting up my pieces of clay with a theoretical value up against your cash and I only pay out actual cash on your net win. I have relatively unlimited pieces of clay and you have limited cash in other words. When was the last time you were at a casino and every chip tray at every table got cleaned out? When was the last time you were at a casino and the chip tray at any given table got cleaned out?

A casino cash bank that matches the value and quantity of chips in the tray has you covered... period. Let's say you set up a game with a .63 or so house advantage with six decks, S17, DOA, etc. You have the advantage even if all your players know and play perfect basic strategy. Should they not play perfect basic strategy your house advantage can easily go up to 2 or 3%! You guys are all talking as if every one of these people playing is a card-counter or something and I highly doubt that is the case.

In the overall with six or seven players, although I would have cash on hand backing the chips in the tray, in the mathematic probabilities of it the bank/dealer is going to come out on top and you won't have to come up with any cash at all. You are putting up pieces of clay, they are putting up cash. You only pay out cash if they win.

On another note... uhm... I seriously doubt a group of the local goat herders are going to declare Jihad on a private blackjack game within the confines of a US compound. I think the chances of this are just as likely as the chances of Rita Coolidge and Crystal Gayle showing up during the game to do an impromptu duet.
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Casinos deal in large numbers. This will be be a single table. Apples and oranges. Let a casino operate its games with a 1% house edge and its longterm chances of going broke are nill. Play one on one with the same edge and you have a pretty high chance of going broke. Someone with a 20,000 unit BR will go belly up many times less than someone with a 5000 unit BR.
Lets say you start with a $10,000 BR and seven guys buy-in for $1,000 each. Have you never seen a table go positive and run thru $17,000 in chips during a dealer cold streak?





Rita Coolidge- you do realize half the posters had to google her, no?
 
psyduck

psyduck

Well-Known Member
#15
#15
colonelsanders said:
I am working as a contractor in Afghanistan. Myself and a couple friends would like to start a weekly Blackjack game. We live on a compound with a large # of other contractors, with no place for them to spend their substantial salaries. We would be the DEALER. One of us would deal, while one of the others would observe and shuffle. The min bet would be $1 or $2 and the max bet will be $25. Each session would last around 6 hours, and the table will be full at least 90% of the time. If we are going to bankroll a 7 player game, what do you think our starting bankroll should be? We'll have about $1000 in equipment. Again, we won't be playing against the dealer, we'll be the dealer. Any insight you can give would be appreciated.
Thanks, Gary
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I wish I could play against you to win my tax money back before it is wasted.

BTW, if you run out of money as the house, just ask the congress for more. We can always come up with more money for wars!
 
T

tthree

Banned
#16
#16
psyduck said:
I wish I could play against you to win my tax money back before it is wasted.

BTW, if you run out of money as the house, just ask the congress for more. We can always come up with more money for wars!
Click to expand...
All they know how to do is waste your money.
 
C

Cardcounter

Well-Known Member
#17
#17
In Nevada the gaming commiston makes the Casino carry enough money in the cages to cover every bet in case they lost all the bets. Even know that is almost mathimatically impossible.
 
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