Dealer error, pit says you may play the hand or not. What would you have done?

2

21forme

Well-Known Member
#1
#1
Shoe game, AC rules. Dealer missed that someone at the table decided to play a second hand. After the complete round of first cards is dealt, player points this out and dealer calls the pit over.

Pit says cards can't be backed up, but each player may elect to continue the hand or bow out. Dealer has a 9 showing. I have a 10. What should I have done? Pull my bet back or play? Count was essentially neutral, just slightly plus.
 
B

Blue Efficacy

Well-Known Member
#2
#2
21forme said:
Shoe game, AC rules. Dealer missed that someone at the table decided to play a second hand. After the complete round of first cards is dealt, player points this out and dealer calls the pit over.

Pit says cards can't be backed up, but each player may elect to continue the hand or bow out. Dealer has a 9 showing. I have a 10. What should I have done? Pull my bet back or play? Count was essentially neutral, just slightly plus.
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I think a first card face is still a favorite against a 9, but I have nothing to back that up.
 
G

Guynoire

Well-Known Member
#3
#3
If you would normally double down a 10 V 9 then it must be advantageous to play the hand, otherwise you would just hit. I'm a little confused as to whether you received one or both cards but if you only had one then it's even more advantageous because you still had the possibility of blackjack.
 
S

standard toaster

Well-Known Member
#4
#4
Guynoire said:
If you would normally double down a 10 V 9 then it must be advantageous to play the hand, otherwise you would just hit. I'm a little confused as to whether you received one or both cards but if you only had one then it's even more advantageous because you still had the possibility of blackjack.
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but if he had one card theres a better chance of a stiff as well

I would continue playing my hand.
 
G

Guynoire

Well-Known Member
#5
#5
standard toaster said:
but if he had one card theres a better chance of a stiff as well
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What I meant is if you hit a ten and get an ace you'll only be paid 1 to 1 assuming no push, if you receive a second card Ace you'll get paid 3-2 and have an automatic win.
 
T

tedloc

Well-Known Member
#6
#6
Continue

21forme said:
Shoe game, AC rules. Dealer missed that someone at the table decided to play a second hand. After the complete round of first cards is dealt, player points this out and dealer calls the pit over.

Pit says cards can't be backed up, but each player may elect to continue the hand or bow out. Dealer has a 9 showing. I have a 10. What should I have done? Pull my bet back or play? Count was essentially neutral, just slightly plus.
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Your 10 vs dealer 9 makes you a 6/5 favorite. Let's assume that both you and the dealers next card is down. If I was standing behind you I would take half your bet. If you won't gamble when you are a favorite, it's time to go home.
 
SleightOfHand

SleightOfHand

Well-Known Member
#7
#7
tedloc said:
Your 10 vs dealer 9 makes you a 6/5 favorite. Let's assume that both you and the dealers next card is down. If I was standing behind you I would take half your bet. If you won't gamble when you are a favorite, it's time to go home.
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Easy way to think about it, 10v9 BS is to double. Anytime you are doubling, you are a favorite to win. Therefore, you keep your cards.
 
EasyRhino

EasyRhino

Well-Known Member
#8
#8
Yes, that hand's a keeper.

I had a dealer error yesterday that I really wanted to ensure that I got a favorable floorman decision on. The dealer acidentally dealt herself twodown cards. She called over the floorman, pointed out the error, and which card was the first out.

Unfortunately, I was left with a 14v10. I stared dumbly at my hand. Then dumbly at the floorman, then dumbly at the down cards. After giving the floorman as much time as I could think of, I asked him something like "wait, is that card dealt out of order?" Finally realizing that the Almighty Flow had been disrupted, he instructs me "just play your hand you normally would". I bust, and then the floorman instructs the dealer to just push my bet. Saved me $50.
 
K

k_c

Well-Known Member
#10
#10
21forme said:
Shoe game, AC rules. Dealer missed that someone at the table decided to play a second hand. After the complete round of first cards is dealt, player points this out and dealer calls the pit over.

Pit says cards can't be backed up, but each player may elect to continue the hand or bow out. Dealer has a 9 showing. I have a 10. What should I have done? Pull my bet back or play? Count was essentially neutral, just slightly plus.
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Basic strategy player has a 15.7% advantage for 6 decks, no surrender in that situation.
 

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Beefcake

Member
#12
#12
I was offered

I was offered the option to get out of a hard 14 vs. a dealer 3. I took the out, based on the fact that (a) I wouldn't want to hit it, and (b) the dealer's chance of busting was well less than 50%.
 
ihate17

ihate17

Well-Known Member
#13
#13
You did the right thing

Beefcake said:
I was offered the option to get out of a hard 14 vs. a dealer 3. I took the out, based on the fact that (a) I wouldn't want to hit it, and (b) the dealer's chance of busting was well less than 50%.
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Your 14 is an underdog to the dealer 3. In simple terms, the dealer is only going to bust that hand something around 30% of the time and can easily have a 4,5,6,7 or 8 in the hole just as easy as having a 9 or 10 in the hole.
I would not play any stiff against a 3 in this case and would not play a 17 either.

ihate17
 
M

mrbill

Well-Known Member
#14
#14
I had the following happen this last weekend.

I was at a table with one other player. He was at 1st base. He was dealt a 12, I had 7 and the dealer had a 9 up. The guy at 1st base was talking to the pit and made some motion that the dealer took as a stay. She then dropped an 8 on my 7 for 15. Then the guy at 1st base said he never signaled and wanted a hit. After the dealer explained it to the pit, he gave us the option to play the hand as it was or back out.

I was more than happy to pull my bet back. Even with a 7 I would've against a 9.
 
Mimosine

Mimosine

Well-Known Member
#15
#15
these are really important plays. its good that a lot of people are on here sharing them. The first time it happens to you, you kind of are like what the heck should I do. A firm grasp of dealer bust rates (usually around ~30%) and BS really goes a long way. Even better are opportunities when you know the next card out of the shoe; if the dealer overhits their hand and then has to save the card for first.

remember too that each pit will treat each situation differently. They won't always be so generous. Knowing when to back out is BETTER than surrender. Very big +EV since you don't lose any of your bet. Or in a situation where the hand is a winner same goes. Having that option could swing a session a few units in the best case scenario.
 
ihate17

ihate17

Well-Known Member
#16
#16
A sweet situation, could have sweeter.

Playing at first base in a S-17 game the dealer has a 3 showing, turns an ace, hits another three and then mistakenly hits again and an ace comes out. I point out that she mistakenly hit soft 17 and she calls the pit, who corrects the hand but says burn the last ace.
I look at the pit and say that the ace should be mine, he agrees but (not a stupid pit) tells me I must keep my bet the same as last hand. Did not get a blackjack but got a winner.

ihate17
 
B

Beefcake

Member
#17
#17
Thanks for the confirmation...

ihate17 said:
Your 14 is an underdog to the dealer 3. In simple terms, the dealer is only going to bust that hand something around 30% of the time and can easily have a 4,5,6,7 or 8 in the hole just as easy as having a 9 or 10 in the hole.
I would not play any stiff against a 3 in this case and would not play a 17 either.

ihate17
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I was 98% sure on that decision, but appreciate the confirmation. Someone else at the table stayed in on a stiff of some sort -- can't remember which -- and ended up winning. Nice to know I made the right call based on the %'s.
 
B

Beefcake

Member
#18
#18
Here's another one.

One related situation I ran into recently where the pit was not quite so generous. We were at a moderate plus count ~+1.5TC, and the dealer flipped over his second card accidentally as he was trying to turn the first. He called the pit over, and asked what he should do. I was of the opinion that it should have been a misdeal, or at a minimum I should have been allowed out of the hand. Pit said to just play the hand as dealt, with the "wrong card showing."

I had a stiff and wanted to back out, and gently suggested it, but as this is a small place and I don't want to wear out my welcome here, I didn't make a stink about his decision. I only had a $25 bet out as well, making the situation a bit more tolerable.

Question is: what has been your experience in having a situation like that called a misdeal and being allowed to back out? Is it worth it in other shops to push that issue if it comes up again?
 
Mimosine

Mimosine

Well-Known Member
#19
#19
ihate17 said:
I look at the pit and say that the ace should be mine, he agrees but (not a stupid pit) tells me I must keep my bet the same as last hand. Did not get a blackjack but got a winner.

ihate17
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i had the same thing happen, except wasn't prevented from upping my bet, which i did, and i got a blackjack. even the pit was happy.

what a difference a pit makes. some pits and their employees really really suck.

If you think you've been wrong speak up before the hand gets too messed up, call over the pit. Usually the dealer will agree to this since they aren't sure what to do and don't want to get in trouble.

there is one crappy place that i was at recently in CA. many people on here know it well. poor rules and non existent comps since there is no competition for this casino. I was at a table where there was a GROSS misdeal. the dealer dealt out the cutcard, but instead of dealing a real card on top of it, they kept going and dealt them self a card. once that happened, misdeal, no backing up of cards, we weren't allowed out of the hand, and i had a crappy hand and i lost it. i think they ended up dealing that one player who was missing a card, the next card out of the shoe. it was so ridiculous. there are many nice casinos where i play at that always err in favor of the player. these places always comp well, smile when you show up, smile when you win, etc...
 
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