Dealer/PB offers LS

[ARK]

I was playing in the "high-limit" room of a small local store, $25DD crappy rules. The dealer was an extremely chatty fellow who enjoyed telling me about all the "action" games he liked: BJ switch, Spanish 21, and his latest favorite Mississippi Stud.

While he was running down all the extra benefits of Spanish 21, including surrender, i made some offhand comment about it being in some blackjack games, but not here. He looked at me and said "You can surrender in here" and yelled out to the PB for confirmation. The PB came over and agreed that late surrender would be allowed ok, and while he didn't look thrilled, I didn't receive any heat for the rest of his shift (which only lasted about 20 more minutes).

Nowhere on the table was late surrender mentioned, and there was a rule card specifically spelling out the (poor) rules at the table.

1) Does anyone have experience being offered better rules? I've heard of high-rollers negotiating with the pit but never experienced anything like it.

2) How would you recommend I handle this on subsequent visits? Is this worth asking for each time in or am I drawing unnecessary heat to myself?

 

[tthree]

I would ask and point out that you were allowed to do it last visit if you were denied. I don't understand why you are playing crappy rules to begin with!

I ask a lot but rarely get the response I am looking for. Some casinos are a lot more apt to try to please their customers.

 

[Dyepaintball12]

I have heard of this happening too. Every time you come just make a surrender play and if they say you can't be like ummm last time I was told I could.

 

[Southpaw]

There is a member here on the board that I have played with that has been able to negotiate LS being offered at some of the local casinos. It helps, though, that he is able to say that one of the other local casinos allows him to LS. The idea here is that he can pretend as if he'll take his business to one of the other casinos if his request is not granted.

Spaw

 

[jaygruden]

Early Surrnder, Late Surrender and Later Surrender?

Played at a new store (before their one year anniversary) and witnessed this play with regards to surrender (they allow LS):

A guy splits 9's vs 8 and catches another 9 on his first hit, so he re-splits. On the next card he catches a duece so he doubles and catches the paint.

On his 2nd hand he catches another ten so he's pat at 19.

On his 3rd hand he catches a 7 for a stiff 16. He surrenders the hand. The newbie dealer isn't sure that he's allowed to surrender a hand after a split so he calls the Newbie PB over and Barnie Fife says "Yes, you can surrender that after a split".

Dealer flips the ten from the hole for the 18 so player wins 2 of his 3 hands (one being a double) and surrenders his stiff hand.

Even though not the right play to surrender 16 vs 8, I wonder what the added edge is on a game that lets you surrender a hand after a split? It seems that very often I would like to surrender at least one of my hands after I split aces

 

[creeping panther]

Ls

Play that game until they change that rule:grin:

I believe an additional .04

CP

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Played at a new store (before their one year anniversary) and witnessed this play with regards to surrender (they allow LS):

A guy splits 9's vs 8 and catches another 9 on his first hit, so he re-splits. On the next card he catches a duece so he doubles and catches the paint.

On his 2nd hand he catches another ten so he's pat at 19.

On his 3rd hand he catches a 7 for a stiff 16. He surrenders the hand. The newbie dealer isn't sure that he's allowed to surrender a hand after a split so he calls the Newbie PB over and Barnie Fife says "Yes, you can surrender that after a split".

Dealer flips the ten from the hole for the 18 so player wins 2 of his 3 hands (one being a double) and surrenders his stiff hand.

Even though not the right play to surrender 16 vs 8, I wonder what the added edge is on a game that lets you surrender a hand after a split? It seems that very often I would like to surrender at least one of my hands after I split aces

It's the right play in a huge count. You'd do it around the same place where you would surrender 14 vs. 9 or 14 vs. A in a S17 game.

Surrender after split aces would be awesome. On the other hand, most of the other splits you do against 9,10,A (the hands where all of the power of surrender come from) are going to be splitting 8's, and if you get another 8 you can just resplit. But more importantly, if the count is positive you can surrender your 88 vs. 10 before you even split it. Aside from the split aces, having a hand you would want to surrender after splitting is so uncommon in a S17 game it isn't worth that much. In H17 it is worth a little more, as is LS in general.

 

[jaygruden]

It's the right play in a huge count. You'd do it around the same place where you would surrender 14 vs. 9 or 14 vs. A in a S17 game.

Surrender after split aces would be awesome. On the other hand, most of the other splits you do against 9,10,A (the hands where all of the power of surrender come from) are going to be splitting 8's, and if you get another 8 you can just resplit. But more importantly, if the count is positive you can surrender your 88 vs. 10 before you even split it. Aside from the split aces, having a hand you would want to surrender after splitting is so uncommon in a S17 game it isn't worth that much. In H17 it is worth a little more, as is LS in general.

Yes, I agree with this.........what I neglected to say, is that all of this happened in a negative count so what I should have said is that it wasn't the right play at the current count. I just found it unreal that the PB allowed it. I haven't had a situation occur when I would want to try to surrender after a split (just to see if I could get away with it) bc, as you said, the vast majority of splits are vs a stiff up card.

 

[Sucker]

Though it's posted no where in the place; the high limit room at the Marina has ALWAYS allowed surrender - no big secret.